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Post by inger on Aug 5, 2023 21:43:53 GMT -5
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk How can a pop out that travels 134 feet have an "exit velocity" of 102? Makes me wonder about the validity of that metric. It went up really, really fast… 🤓😎
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Post by pippsheadache on Aug 6, 2023 9:24:23 GMT -5
At first I didn't notice that caveat of Holmes being twelfth since they started counting saves as an official stat in 1969. He has 35, and I was coming up with too many closers who had more than that if, like most sources including baseballref, you retroactively award saves from before they became MLB-certified.
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Post by anthonyd46 on Aug 6, 2023 9:46:46 GMT -5
At first I didn't notice that caveat of Holmes being twelfth since they started counting saves as an official stat in 1969. He has 35, and I was coming up with too many closers who had more than that if, like most sources including baseballref, you retroactively award saves from before they became MLB-certified. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by pippsheadache on Aug 6, 2023 10:10:37 GMT -5
For the record, here is the baseballref list of the top ten Yankee saves leaders. Interesting, although not a lot of surprises.
1. Mariano Rivera -- 652 2. Dave Righetti -- 224 3. Aroldis Chapman -- 153 4. Rich Gossage -- 151 5. Sparky Lyle -- 141 6. Johnny Murphy -- 104 7. Steve Farr -- 78 8. Joe Page -- 76 9. John Wetteland -- 74 10. Lindy McDaniel -- 58
Note that Mo has more than 2,3, and 4 combined, and almost as many if you throw in number 5. I believe the gap between Mo and whoever you consider to be the second-greatest closer of all time is more than the gap between one and two at any other position in baseball.
Johnny Murphy was the first true dedicated closer the Yankees ever had, starting in the mid-30s. Joe McCarthy recognized early on how much more suited he was coming in to relieve than he was as a starter. He was one of the first true closers ever -- Firpo Marberry, who pitched for Washington in the 20s and 30s normally gets that title, but he actually started a much higher percentage of his games than Murphy. The Yanks had a pitcher named Wilcy Moore who was more or less a relief specialist on the 1927-29 Yankees, but he was more of a failed starter who didn't reach the majors until he was 30 years old.
After a rookie season where he started half of his games, Murphy was used almost exclusively in relief for the rest of his Yankee career, from 1934 to 1946. He actually had the nickname "Fireman" (his other nickname was "Grandma" for his fussy personal style.) From 1947 through 1950, hard-drinking Joe Page, another guy called "Fireman," picked up where Murphy left off. He had an amazing-for-the-time 27 saves in 1949.
While Page essentially drank himself out of the game, Murphy was a noted wine connoisseur of genteel habits and elevated taste. He was hired by George Weiss for the Mets' front office when the team was formed, going from head scout to director of player development until finally in late 1967 he became General Manager, a position he held when the Miracle Mets he did so much to build won the championship in 1969. Sadly, a few months later he died from a heart attack.
Maybe the least expected guy on this list is Steve Farr. It's easy to forget how good he was -- he was only with the Yanks three years, 1991-1993, and the first two of the years the Yankees were a really bad team, limiting his save opportunities. He compiled an ERA+ of 161 during his Yankee tenure. He left for free agency in 1994, when he was replaced for a year by a combination of Steve Howe and Bob Wickman until Wetteland came along in 1995. We all know the story after that.
A few other noted Yankee closers and their saves with the Yanks --
Ryne Duren -- 41 Luis Arroyo -- 43 Hal Reniff -- 41 Pedro Ramos -- 39 Steve Hamilton -- 36 Jack Aker -- 31
Since Sparky Lyle arrived in 1972, it was pretty much a straight uninterrupted line from Lyle to Gossage to Righetti to Farr to Wetteland to Mo.
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Post by pippsheadache on Aug 6, 2023 10:12:21 GMT -5
At first I didn't notice that caveat of Holmes being twelfth since they started counting saves as an official stat in 1969. He has 35, and I was coming up with too many closers who had more than that if, like most sources including baseballref, you retroactively award saves from before they became MLB-certified. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk You beat me to it Anthony. But I decided to leave mine up anyway.
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Post by rizzuto on Aug 6, 2023 10:35:18 GMT -5
For the record, here is the baseballref list of the top ten Yankee saves leaders. Interesting, although not a lot of surprises. 1. Mariano Rivera -- 652 2. Dave Righetti -- 224 3. Aroldis Chapman -- 153 4. Rich Gossage -- 151 5. Sparky Lyle -- 141 6. Johnny Murphy -- 104 7. Steve Farr -- 78 8. Joe Page -- 76 9. John Wetteland -- 74 10. Lindy McDaniel -- 58 Note that Mo has more than 2,3, and 4 combined, and almost as many if you throw in number 5. I believe the gap between Mo and whoever you consider to be the second-greatest closer of all time is more than the gap between one and two at any other position in baseball. Johnny Murphy was the first true dedicated closer the Yankees ever had, starting in the mid-30s. Joe McCarthy recognized early on how much more suited he was coming in to relieve than he was as a starter. He was one of the first true closers ever -- Firpo Marberry, who pitched for Washington in the 20s and 30s normally gets that title, but he actually started a much higher percentage of his games than Murphy. The Yanks had a pitcher named Wilcy Moore who was more or less a relief specialist on the 1927-29 Yankees, but he was more of a failed starter who didn't reach the majors until he was 30 years old. After a rookie season where he started half of his games, Murphy was used almost exclusively in relief for the rest of his Yankee career, from 1934 to 1946. He actually had the nickname "Fireman" (his other nickname was "Grandma" for his fussy personal style.) From 1947 through 1950, hard-drinking Joe Page, another guy called "Fireman," picked up where Murphy left off. He had an amazing-for-the-time 27 saves in 1949. While Page essentially drank himself out of the game, Murphy was a noted wine connoisseur of genteel habits and elevated taste. He was hired by George Weiss for the Mets' front office when the team was formed, going from head scout to director of player development until finally in late 1967 he became General Manager, a position he held when the Miracle Mets he did so much to build won the championship in 1969. Sadly, a few months later he died from a heart attack. Maybe the least expected guy on this list is Steve Farr. It's easy to forget how good he was -- he was only with the Yanks three years, 1991-1993, and the first two of the years the Yankees were a really bad team, limiting his save opportunities. He compiled an ERA+ of 161 during his Yankee tenure. He left for free agency in 1994, when he was replaced for a year by a combination of Steve Howe and Bob Wickman until Wetteland came along in 1995. We all know the story after that. A few other noted Yankee closers and their saves with the Yanks -- Ryne Duren -- 41 Luis Arroyo -- 43 Hal Reniff -- 41 Pedro Ramos -- 39 Steve Hamilton -- 36 Jack Aker -- 31 Since Sparky Lyle arrived in 1972, it was pretty much a straight uninterrupted line from Lyle to Gossage to Righetti to Farr to Wetteland to Mo. I hoped you would say something about Johnny Murphy, and if you didn't I was going to ask. Thanks for the thumbnail, as he was one on the list with whom I was unfamiliar. Another innovation and reason to consider McCarthy the best in the business. Difficult to find anything from Steve Farr, except with other teams striking out Yankees and players who were with the Yankees at one time. I agree he was underrated for his work in Pinstripes with some bad teams.
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Post by pippsheadache on Aug 6, 2023 11:16:13 GMT -5
Rizz, Johnny Murphy was also responsible for bringing Gil Hodges over to the Mets from Washington. Murphy knew Hodges was the perfect manager for the team, but the Senators were pretty happy with the job he was doing for them. Murphy's old teammate and friend Twinkletoes Selkirk was Washington's GM, and after a lot of haggling he agreed to let Hodges go in return for a player and some money. Hodges still had his home in Brooklyn and was happy to get back to New York.
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Post by pippsheadache on Aug 6, 2023 11:20:07 GMT -5
Oh, great clip of Steve Farr. DeMatha has had its share of notable athletes. The first one I remember hearing about was Adrian Dantley, who like Lew Alcindor was one of the few high school hoops players who were nationally known before even playing in college.
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Post by rizzuto on Aug 6, 2023 11:41:04 GMT -5
Oh, great clip of Steve Farr. DeMatha has had its share of notable athletes. The first one I remember hearing about was Adrian Dantley, who like Lew Alcindor was one of the few high school hoops players who were nationally known before even playing in college. Adrian Dantley was a heady operator on the court and always played bigger than his 6'5" inch frame at the small forward position. He and Bernard King were similar to me, with more of an inside and mid-range game that took advantage of their speed against bigger opponents and smart positioning and body control against anyone around their size. Both cerebral players in my opinion, rather than the incredible athletic gifts of someone like Charles Barkley was so explosive and strong, which allowed him to compete at a similar size in the land of giants in the paint.
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