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Post by azbob643 on Jun 6, 2024 8:58:20 GMT -5
OK…so let’s first address the play Verdugo made tonight. For starters, your assertion that Verdugo pulled up is incorrect. He never broke stride, and, in fact, he ran into the wall as he made the catch. As Flaherty said…”he was able to hold on as he crashes into the wall”. Coincidentally, tonight’s game was played almost exactly one year to the day from the game in LA in which Judge was injured, at a point in the season in which you felt was less important than potentially a game played toward the end of the season. We have no way of knowing how “important” a game is at this point in the season. In fact, games won at this point in the season could be the difference between the Yanks being in a tight playoff race or cruising to the division title with an insurmountable lead, making games played at the end of the season less important. Players will and should give their best effort on each and every play, just as Verdugo did tonight and Judge did last year, and any criticism of them for doing so is unjustified.
that's just how ballplayers are wired. they're in the moment, tracking the ball, trying to make a play and if they think can, they're gonna try. neither verdugo, judge (or soto) thought of pulling up for a second. to them, every play of every game is important and they're gonna do whatever they have to help their team win. As did Margot on both balls Gleyber hit his way. As you said...it's a natural knee-jerk reaction in the moment, not something that involves any deep thought or decision making.
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Post by inger on Jun 6, 2024 9:20:17 GMT -5
When I was a young inger and loved being an outfielder, I never once thought about getting hurt. If it was n the air, I was getting under it, no matter what position I was going to land in, or if I was going to hit a fence… all I wanted was that ball in my glove. Fortunately I was quite flexible then, and never seriously hurt.
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Post by azbob643 on Jun 6, 2024 9:26:49 GMT -5
When I was a young inger and loved being an outfielder, I never once thought about getting hurt. If it was n the air, I was getting under it, no matter what position I was going to land in, or if I was going to hit a fence… all I wanted was that ball in my glove. Fortunately I was quite flexible then, and never seriously hurt. I've suffered just about every injury one could possibly get on a baseball field...torn hamstrings, pulled quads, spiked shins, sprained ankles, concussion, etc. Never once did I stopped to consider the ramifications before sacrificing my body to make a play.
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Post by yanksfan9 on Jun 6, 2024 9:32:38 GMT -5
The Yankees aren't just beating bad teams. Are people trying to say that? If they are, then they are completely missing the boat. I will say though, I don't think there are many really good teams this year. In the AL it seems to be the Yanks and O's and then everyone else with the possible exception of Cleveland but I am still skeptical of they have the pitching to hang in there all year and I think their record is padded by that weak division.. Plus the Yanks took 2 of 3 from them in Cleveland earlier this year and that was before the Yankees really hit their stride. In the NL the Phillies are obviously very good and we know the Dodgers will be there but they have underachieved to this point for that payroll and lineup. Obviously it's still early and other teams could get hot and the Yankees will cool off and have a dip soon as I just don't see them keeping this pace all year. Calling it now - If they lose the series to the Dodgers there will be a ton of people going "See? They aren't that good." Either way though, this team reminds me a LOT of the 98 Yanks. Anyone know how far off that pace they are as of this date in the season?
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Post by kaybli on Jun 6, 2024 9:40:06 GMT -5
The Yankees aren't just beating bad teams. Are people trying to say that? If they are, then they are completely missing the boat. I will say though, I don't think there are many really good teams this year. In the AL it seems to be the Yanks and O's and then everyone else with the possible exception of Cleveland but I am still skeptical of they have the pitching to hang in there all year and I think their record is padded by that weak division.. Plus the Yanks took 2 of 3 from them in Cleveland earlier this year and that was before the Yankees really hit their stride. In the NL the Phillies are obviously very good and we know the Dodgers will be there but they have underachieved to this point for that payroll and lineup. Obviously it's still early and other teams could get hot and the Yankees will cool off and have a dip soon as I just don't see them keeping this pace all year. Calling it now - If they lose the series to the Dodgers there will be a ton of people going "See? They aren't that good." Either way though, this team reminds me a LOT of the 98 Yanks. Anyone know how far off that pace they are as of this date in the season? 1998 Yankees were 47-16 through 63 games. We are 44-19 through 63 games. 3 games off the 1998 pace.
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Post by bumper on Jun 6, 2024 9:47:44 GMT -5
Are people trying to say that? If they are, then they are completely missing the boat. I will say though, I don't think there are many really good teams this year. In the AL it seems to be the Yanks and O's and then everyone else with the possible exception of Cleveland but I am still skeptical of they have the pitching to hang in there all year and I think their record is padded by that weak division.. Plus the Yanks took 2 of 3 from them in Cleveland earlier this year and that was before the Yankees really hit their stride. In the NL the Phillies are obviously very good and we know the Dodgers will be there but they have underachieved to this point for that payroll and lineup. Obviously it's still early and other teams could get hot and the Yankees will cool off and have a dip soon as I just don't see them keeping this pace all year. Calling it now - If they lose the series to the Dodgers there will be a ton of people going "See? They aren't that good." Either way though, this team reminds me a LOT of the 98 Yanks. Anyone know how far off that pace they are as of this date in the season? 1998 Yankees were 47-16 through 63 games. We are 44-19 through 63 games. 3 games off the 1998 pace. fwiw and not much considering how that season wound up, but in 2022 we were also at 47-16. that team was seriously flawed w donaldson, hicks and gallo so it wasn't sustainable. much more confidence this year.
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Post by kaybli on Jun 6, 2024 9:50:13 GMT -5
1998 Yankees were 47-16 through 63 games. We are 44-19 through 63 games. 3 games off the 1998 pace. fwiw and not much considering how that season wound up, but in 2022 we were also at 47-16. that team was seriously flawed w donaldson, hicks and gallo so it wasn't sustainable. much more confidence this year. Totally agree. I'm just praying to the baseball gods to avoid the injury bug.
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Post by Max on Jun 6, 2024 13:07:25 GMT -5
How is the weather for tonight’s game?? Since I keep Yankee Stadium on my weather app… the rains should move out by game time, but a short shower will likely impede, but is unlikely to stop play. High humidity with high 70’s dropping into mid seventies as the game progresses. Wind from the SSE will be lessening from 12 MPH with gust as high as 22 as the game progresses… and shifting to from the south… Which way does the park face? I no not… I thought your answer was going to be...Chili Today, hot Tamale.
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Post by Max on Jun 6, 2024 13:08:35 GMT -5
Rodon attacks the city well in the first inning… I wonder if his plan was just to wing it.
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Post by yanksfan9 on Jun 6, 2024 13:19:03 GMT -5
Are people trying to say that? If they are, then they are completely missing the boat. I will say though, I don't think there are many really good teams this year. In the AL it seems to be the Yanks and O's and then everyone else with the possible exception of Cleveland but I am still skeptical of they have the pitching to hang in there all year and I think their record is padded by that weak division.. Plus the Yanks took 2 of 3 from them in Cleveland earlier this year and that was before the Yankees really hit their stride. In the NL the Phillies are obviously very good and we know the Dodgers will be there but they have underachieved to this point for that payroll and lineup. Obviously it's still early and other teams could get hot and the Yankees will cool off and have a dip soon as I just don't see them keeping this pace all year. Calling it now - If they lose the series to the Dodgers there will be a ton of people going "See? They aren't that good." Either way though, this team reminds me a LOT of the 98 Yanks. Anyone know how far off that pace they are as of this date in the season? 1998 Yankees were 47-16 through 63 games. We are 44-19 through 63 games. 3 games off the 1998 pace. Now that's pretty amazing right there. To think we also had 2 blown games in the last couple weeks that simply would not happen again that way if you played them 100 times. One against Seattle and another against LA. Special team for sure.
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Post by Max on Jun 6, 2024 13:24:09 GMT -5
We are the Godzilla of the baseball world! Are the Phillies King Kong? No, because in the original movie, King Kong beats Godzilla.
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Post by inger on Jun 6, 2024 13:55:05 GMT -5
Since I keep Yankee Stadium on my weather app… the rains should move out by game time, but a short shower will likely impede, but is unlikely to stop play. High humidity with high 70’s dropping into mid seventies as the game progresses. Wind from the SSE will be lessening from 12 MPH with gust as high as 22 as the game progresses… and shifting to from the south… Which way does the park face? I no not… I thought your answer was going to be...Chili Today, hot Tamale. Sorta the same today, though a bit warmer. Morning rain.
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Post by qwik3457bb on Jun 6, 2024 17:28:28 GMT -5
OK…so let’s first address the play Verdugo made tonight. For starters, your assertion that Verdugo pulled up is incorrect. He never broke stride, and, in fact, he ran into the wall as he made the catch. As Flaherty said…”he was able to hold on as he crashes into the wall”. Coincidentally, tonight’s game was played almost exactly one year to the day from the game in LA in which Judge was injured, at a point in the season in which you felt was less important than potentially a game played toward the end of the season. We have no way of knowing how “important” a game is at this point in the season. In fact, games won at this point in the season could be the difference between the Yanks being in a tight playoff race or cruising to the division title with an insurmountable lead, making games played at the end of the season less important. Players will and should give their best effort on each and every play, just as Verdugo did tonight and Judge did last year, and any criticism of them for doing so is unjustified. OK, so I'll take these points one at a time. About Verdugo's play last night: I've watched the play four times now, and he was most definitely NOT running all out just before he hit the wall, in fact he was changing direction slightly at the very end and slowing down slightly to diminish the impact. He did, in fact, break stride, if only a little. In fact, if you watch closely, he's able to turn his throwing arm slightly in front of him to take some of the brunt of the impact on the arm as well as his knee on the padding down lower. Second, and I pointed this out more than once last year. I don't have to prove that some games in a season are more crucial down the stretch when a team is fighting for a playoff spots than games in June that "could be the difference between being in a tight playoff race and crusising the the division title with an insurmountable lead, making the games played at the end of the season less important" because a) There is no such thing as an insurmountable lead making the games less important in the first week of June, you build an insurmountable lead over 120-140 games, and the Yanks are still 60-80 games away from being there (if, in fact, they ever get there with the O's still close), and therefore, if you lose a crucial player to a serious injury crashing into the wall, your chances of getting that insurmountable lead are considerably smaller. b) I don't have to prove that, because ALL MLB teams in tight races play it that way, doing things down the stretch they NEVER do in June, no matter what the state of the race is. They make their starters go deeper. Some make their aces pitch on 3 days rest instead of 4, especially in the last series or two. Some use their closers 3, even 4 days in a row if they have to. They stop giving their everyday players games off. The idea that games down the stretch in a tight playoff race aren't clearly more important is silly. The whole season leads up to that. You can't play games 60-65 the same way you'd play games 155-162 in a tight race. The risk is too great for the gain. It's simply not true that players give their best effort on every play, and as I pointed out, smart managers will ignore it or handle it behind closed doors if they see a player not running all out down to 1st on a grounder in a 10-2 game in the 8th inning. Players DON'T run all-out on popups and easy fly balls, until they see a chance they might not be caught. The Yankees DON'T demand Stanton bust it all out every time he runs because if they do, they KNOW he'll wind up on the IL for long stretches, and they lose his bat for those games. Judge's play last year effectively ended their season. The offense crumpled last year without him. The Yanks were 10 games over, 6 games behind the Rays. He was desperate to keep them from falling losing that lead, that game, I get that. But they went 19-23 without him, and after the time came back and got his stroke back, they had lost 16 of their next 22. They were out of the race. They averaged 4.7 runs per game in the first 60 games of the season. In the next 61 games, which includes the 42 games without him and his first 17 starts back, it was 3.7 runs per game. Was the catch worth it? It probably won that game in LA, but was it worth it? The argument is: that's how he always plays, it's one of the things that makes him a great player. But that's how Pete Reiser played, and Bobby Valentine too, and both ran into a wall, and both of their careers were crippled by it. Reiser played 5 more years after fracturing his skull running into a wall in 1947, but was never a regular again, and never hit effectively again. Do you think the Dodgers could have used him healthy in he 1947 World Series, when they lost to the Yanks in seven games? From SABR's biography of Reiser: " The ill effects of the head injury—plus a sore leg—were evident in the World Series against the Yankees. Reiser misplayed a couple of balls in the first two games—both losses at Yankee Stadium. He started Game Three, but injured his ankle on a steal attempt. Manager Burt Shotton replaced him with Carl Furillo in the second inning, and Pete spent the remainder of the series as a bench player." Yes, the leg injury wiped him out of the Series, but the head injury cost the Dodgers in the first two games, both of which the Dodgers lost. Valentine's ankle was permanently crippled and he was never the same, even though he lasted 6 more seasons in the majors. As I mentioned last year, when Jeter made that amazing catch diving into the stands against the Sox in 2004, he was LUCKY to come away with just a big bruise, he could've fractured his skull like Reiser did. With Judge's injury history, even without considering him going all out and crashing into walls, with his size, weight and enormous momentum at top speed, he has to cut it out; it's not worth the risk, certainly not in games in June. When he made a terrific diving catch coming in a week or two ago, I wasn't the only one in the game thread to comment that they were holding their breath. When Soto dove across the bullpen mound in foul ground to make a play in Tampa, I was screaming only one thing: DON'T GET HURT! Again, I'll quote from Bill James about this: from the 1982 Baseball Abstract: " Two years ago, I saw a game in Kansas City, in which the fans lustily booed Amos Otis, who had only given them about ten good years, because in one inning he pulled away from two balls he might have caught. First, he shied away from the wall on a drive that hit the wall about seven feet high. Then, he pulled up and played a ball on a he when he might have have caught it if he dived. Might have caught it, I say. The Kansas City fans will never forgive Amos for being a percentage player...Otis would drive in two runs before the night was over and the Royals had won. And some people will always admire Butch Hobson because, come hell or high water, he always tried for everything. But I'm not among them. My favorite player is Amos Otis." James is just another guy, but he did go on to become a key analyst on the Sox teams that won its first title in 86 years, that won 3 more titles in the next 14 years. (Athough when he retired in 2019, he said he hadn't really done much for them the previous few years, so maybe he wasn't involved in the 2018 title.) ========= From NBC Sports News today: " Alex Verdugo is not in the Yankees lineup on Thursday following a tremendous catch to secure Wednesday night’s win over the Twins.
There is some speculation that Verdugo is a bit banged up after his run-saving catch in left field. There are no indications as of yet that there is any kind of serious injury, but the Yankees are likely just giving him a day to rest up. Trent Grisham will play center field and bat ninth and Aaron Judge will shift to left field." And this is with him not going all out all the way through the play. How many games do he have to miss; how many games do they have to start Grisham (assuming Grisham doesn't get his bat going with regular play) before the catch isn't worth the risk, even though the risk was far less because Verdugo had a split second to prepare and brace himself as he caught the ball. Unlike Judge last year.
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Post by azbob643 on Jun 6, 2024 17:47:56 GMT -5
OK…so let’s first address the play Verdugo made tonight. For starters, your assertion that Verdugo pulled up is incorrect. He never broke stride, and, in fact, he ran into the wall as he made the catch. As Flaherty said…”he was able to hold on as he crashes into the wall”. Coincidentally, tonight’s game was played almost exactly one year to the day from the game in LA in which Judge was injured, at a point in the season in which you felt was less important than potentially a game played toward the end of the season. We have no way of knowing how “important” a game is at this point in the season. In fact, games won at this point in the season could be the difference between the Yanks being in a tight playoff race or cruising to the division title with an insurmountable lead, making games played at the end of the season less important. Players will and should give their best effort on each and every play, just as Verdugo did tonight and Judge did last year, and any criticism of them for doing so is unjustified. OK, so I'll take these points one at a time. About Verdugo's play last night: I've watched the play four times now, and he was most definitely NOT running all out just before he hit the wall, in fact he was changing direction slightly at the very end and slowing down slightly to diminish the impact. He did, in fact, break stride, if only a little. In fact, if you watch closely, he's able to turn his throwing arm slightly in front of him to take some of the brunt of the impact on the arm as well as his knee on the padding down lower. OK...I'll take these points one at a time... I've watched the play four times now, and he was most definitely NOT running all out just before he hit the wall, in fact he was changing direction slightly at the very end and slowing down slightly to diminish the impact. He did, in fact, break stride, if only a little." ABSOLUTELY FALSE
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Post by azbob643 on Jun 6, 2024 17:54:06 GMT -5
a) There is no such thing as an insurmountable lead making the games less important in the first week of June, you build an insurmountable lead over 120-140 games, and the Yanks are still 60-80 games away from being there (if, in fact, they ever get there with the O's still close), and therefore, if you lose a crucial player to a serious injury crashing into the wall, your chances of getting that insurmountable lead are considerably smaller. Didn't say anything about an insurmountable lead "in the first week of June" A 10 game lead with 9 games to go is insurmountable. That lead would've been the result of wins at any time during the season...including early June.
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