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Post by Max on Jul 10, 2024 13:47:26 GMT -5
don't "hate" cashman but think his time has long passed. agree w the accountability but hal did go along w all those signings. in cash hal trusts.
clearly all those signings in hindsight have ultimately been failures. but at the time ...
DJ age 32 no real injury history coming off a batting title and league leading OPS including 3rd & 4th mvp. remember quite a bit of discussion at yes. newinn was against but the general consensus was sign. maybe too many years but 15 mil for a 2-time batting champ seemed "reasonable".
rodon age 30 but w an injury history. needed SP and he was probably the best one available. coming off 5th & 6th CY, 2.67 ERA averaging over 12K/9. yay or nay at the time?
rizzo 32 no injury history. seemed to be declining but hit 32 HR 1st season. the concussion was an unforeseen injury during a very good season.
stanton 28 w some injuries but coming off mvp 59 HRs. thought we needed SP and/or wait for the LH harper but the idea of teaming w judge was i guess "seductive". "understood" why they did it. but who knew. this has by far turned into the worst move the team ever made. crippling.
my fantasy has always been younger, more athletic, home grown players. of course there was the core 5. and it looked like there was a crop 7-8 years ago. hopefully we have one on the way.
OK, let me restate, he has a habit of buying high and overpays for backend years. He also doesn't have backup plans for when players regress or get injured.He also stubbornly holds on to them even when they no longer produce.
What backup plans do you speak of? Players get hurt, what team has players good enough to start sitting on the bench? As for Cashman holding on to players. Some players can't be traded, some have no trade value, some make too much money, and some have no trade clauses. Not long ago the Yankees ate both Hicks and Donaldson's contracts. Gallo didn't produce and was traded for Beeter. Cashman was able to get the Padres 2nd rated pitching prospect for Voit. |
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Post by 1955nyyfan on Jul 10, 2024 13:54:51 GMT -5
OK, let me restate, he has a habit of buying high and overpays for backend years. He also doesn't have backup plans for when players regress or get injured.He also stubbornly holds on to them even when they no longer produce. What backup plans do you speak of? Players get hurt, what team has players good enough to start sitting on the bench? As for Cashman holding on to players. Some players can't be traded, some have no trade value, some make too much money, and some have no trade clauses. Not long ago the Yankees ate both Hicks and Donaldson's contracts. Gallo didn't produce and was traded for Beeter. Cashman was able to get the Padres 2nd rated pitching prospect for Voit. Other good teams can bring up players from the minors to supplement when players are hurt rather than signing McKinneys, Allens, Bauers and the BP scubs we have. |
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Post by Max on Jul 10, 2024 13:56:53 GMT -5
Interpret: This payroll is not sustainable under the terms that our family likes because we want to take more money for ourselves… He's overlooking all the revenue lost by not advancing deep into the post season. A lot of Yankee fans buy and wear those World Series shirts and hats that go on sale right after October success, and then you all the revenue from playing home games in the post season too. Keep in mind that Hal keeps talking about the payroll, yet the payroll keeps increasing. |
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Post by 1955nyyfan on Jul 10, 2024 14:02:59 GMT -5
Cashman also drafted Judge, Volpe, got Torres for nothing after he signed Chapman. He got Gio for basically nothing, same for platinum glove Trevino. Traded for Soto, didn't trade much for Taillon and Holmes. Signed Cole. Cashman also added key players to the 90's dynasty teams. So far his trade for Gil looks extremely one sided in the Yankees favor. With the amount of transactions he has made he has to have some success. Volpe is far from a sure thing. I hope he becomes a consistent MLB hitter and while he has a chance his floor is probably a very good defensive SS. Would it surprise me that in 2 or 3 years we are looking for an upgrade, no it wouldn't. He has a chance to be good but he is far from being a consistent major league hitter at this point. Don't want to seem overly critical of him because he does a lot of good things but he hasn't hit consisently and wasn't an effective OB leadoff hitter. How many long term pieces has Cash developed from our prospect pool since Judge? Torres has been a good player but it doesn't look like he factors into our long range plans. Trevino had 1/2 of a good season and since then he has looked like a backup with a very weak arm. Soto is a rental who he bet on putting us over the top, let's see how it works out before we put it in the win column. Taillon didn't move the needle and also didn't fit into our long term plans, another guy who was inconsistent and injury prone. Everyone and I mean everyone who follows the Yankees agrees we need to upgrade from Holmes who is wildly inconsistent. These are his successes? Maybe Cash "wins" some trades but it's not like these wins have significantly contributed to long term success. They typically make us marginally better usually for a very short time frame and then we have to replug the hole. How about acquiring or developing some young players who fill long term needs? His fails have had a bigger impact on this team than his wins. And he only spent $300mm putting this mess of a roster together. If he had this track record with any other MLB Team he would have already been kicked to the curb. Max, I really respect you and don't want to get into an protracted argument with you. It's clear that our opinion on Cash is 180 degrees different. While you see good players as driving the $300mm payroll I see DJL, Rodon, Stanton and Rizzo being paid $92mm for a combined 0.1 WAR. There are some MLB Teams that don't spend that much on their 26 man roster. Perhaps as Bumper alluded to each signing made sense at the time but I think decision makers need to be accountable for results more than intentions. I see a BP littered with guys pulled off the scrap heap and they aren't getting the job done. You think Cash has done a good job, I don't. Let's agree to disagree because I don't believe either of us will change our opinion any time soon. My only hope is that I live long enough to see him fired so that I can oen a bottle of Opus One and have a small celebration.  |
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Post by Max on Jul 10, 2024 14:04:28 GMT -5
What backup plans do you speak of? Players get hurt, what team has players good enough to start sitting on the bench? As for Cashman holding on to players. Some players can't be traded, some have no trade value, some make too much money, and some have no trade clauses. Not long ago the Yankees ate both Hicks and Donaldson's contracts. Gallo didn't produce and was traded for Beeter. Cashman was able to get the Padres 2nd rated pitching prospect for Voit. Other good teams can bring up players from the minors to supplement when players are hurt rather than signing McKinneys, Allens, Bauers and the BP scubs we have. I forgot to mention that I wouldn't want a Yankees GM to buy low, because that's usually when a players best years are behind them.
The Yankees prospects were hurt too. Jasson got promoted last season as soon as he looked ready to play MLB. Cashman did the next best thing and used his prospect pool to trade for Verdugo. 55, I'm not saying Cashman is perfect, but year after year he has put together post season teams. As we saw as recently as last MLB season, anything can happen in the postseason.
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Post by Max on Jul 10, 2024 14:13:26 GMT -5
With the amount of transactions he has made he has to have some success. Volpe is far from a sure thing. I hope he becomes a consistent MLB hitter and while he has a chance his floor is probably a very good defensive SS. Would it surprise me that in 2 or 3 years we are looking for an upgrade, no it wouldn't. He has a chance to be good but he is far from being a consistent major league hitter at this point. Don't want to seem overly critical of him because he does a lot of good things but he hasn't hit consisently and wasn't an effective OB leadoff hitter. How many long term pieces has Cash developed from our prospect pool since Judge? Torres has been a good player but it doesn't look like he factors into our long range plans. Trevino had 1/2 of a good season and since then he has looked like a backup with a very weak arm. Soto is a rental who he bet on putting us over the top, let's see how it works out before we put it in the win column. Taillon didn't move the needle and also didn't fit into our long term plans, another guy who was inconsistent and injury prone. Everyone and I mean everyone who follows the Yankees agrees we need to upgrade from Holmes who is wildly inconsistent. These are his successes? Maybe Cash "wins" some trades but it's not like these wins have significantly contributed to long term success. They typically make us marginally better usually for a very short time frame and then we have to replug the hole. How about acquiring or developing some young players who fill long term needs? His fails have had a bigger impact on this team than his wins. And he only spent $300mm putting this mess of a roster together. If he had this track record with any other MLB Team he would have already been kicked to the curb. Max, I really respect you and don't want to get into an protracted argument with you. It's clear that our opinion on Cash is 180 degrees different. While you see good players as driving the $300mm payroll I see DJL, Rodon, Stanton and Rizzo being paid $92mm for a combined 0.1 WAR. There are some MLB Teams that don't spend that much on their 26 man roster. Perhaps as Bumper alluded to each signing made sense at the time but I think decision makers need to be accountable for results more than intentions. I see a BP littered with guys pulled off the scrap heap and they aren't getting the job done. You think Cash has done a good job, I don't. Let's agree to disagree because I don't believe either of us will change our opinion any time soon. My only hope is that I live long enough to see him fired so that I can oen a bottle of Opus One and have a small celebration. I respect you too. I have said in the past I totally get the negative Boone, negative Cashman thoughts some fans have. I disagree with you about Cashman, but I don't dismiss your point of view at all.
You are 1 of my favorite posters since the YES message board days. I'm not even looking at this as an argument, to me it's a friendly disagreement/discussion. Friends and family can friendly agree to disagree. An argument to me is when a disagreement includes personal insults, name calling. |
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Post by inger on Jul 10, 2024 14:13:43 GMT -5
It’s safe to say that arguments can be made for both sides of the issue. Fifty years ago, World Series or bust was a realistic goal, but with each new playoff step that’s become harder to achieve.
Two more teams of expansion would allow four eight team divisions with the winner from each fighting for the WS. But baseball would insist on three wild cards per league and ruin it.
The world of baseball GM’s, owners, and managers is very different now than before divisions and wild cards. So many layers to fight…
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Post by 1955nyyfan on Jul 10, 2024 14:44:08 GMT -5
It’s safe to say that arguments can be made for both sides of the issue. Fifty years ago, World Series or bust was a realistic goal, but with each new playoff step that’s become harder to achieve. Two more teams of expansion would allow four eight team divisions with the winner from each fighting for the WS. But baseball would insist on three wild cards per league and ruin it. The world of baseball GM’s, owners, and managers is very different now than before divisions and wild cards. So many layers to fight… Last point I'll make on Cash and that it contributes to my dislike. I find him to be both arrogant and smug if they are indeed different things. |
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Post by bumper on Jul 10, 2024 16:19:13 GMT -5
It’s safe to say that arguments can be made for both sides of the issue. Fifty years ago, World Series or bust was a realistic goal, but with each new playoff step that’s become harder to achieve. Two more teams of expansion would allow four eight team divisions with the winner from each fighting for the WS. But baseball would insist on three wild cards per league and ruin it. The world of baseball GM’s, owners, and managers is very different now than before divisions and wild cards. So many layers to fight… Last point I'll make on Cash and that it contributes to my dislike. I find him to be both arrogant and smug if they are indeed different things. yup. don't remember the incident but there was one last season where he really showed his colors. not a good look. |
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Post by rizzuto on Jul 10, 2024 17:01:20 GMT -5
With the amount of transactions he has made he has to have some success. Volpe is far from a sure thing. I hope he becomes a consistent MLB hitter and while he has a chance his floor is probably a very good defensive SS. Would it surprise me that in 2 or 3 years we are looking for an upgrade, no it wouldn't. He has a chance to be good but he is far from being a consistent major league hitter at this point. Don't want to seem overly critical of him because he does a lot of good things but he hasn't hit consisently and wasn't an effective OB leadoff hitter. How many long term pieces has Cash developed from our prospect pool since Judge? Torres has been a good player but it doesn't look like he factors into our long range plans. Trevino had 1/2 of a good season and since then he has looked like a backup with a very weak arm. Soto is a rental who he bet on putting us over the top, let's see how it works out before we put it in the win column. Taillon didn't move the needle and also didn't fit into our long term plans, another guy who was inconsistent and injury prone. Everyone and I mean everyone who follows the Yankees agrees we need to upgrade from Holmes who is wildly inconsistent. These are his successes? Maybe Cash "wins" some trades but it's not like these wins have significantly contributed to long term success. They typically make us marginally better usually for a very short time frame and then we have to replug the hole. How about acquiring or developing some young players who fill long term needs? His fails have had a bigger impact on this team than his wins. And he only spent $300mm putting this mess of a roster together. If he had this track record with any other MLB Team he would have already been kicked to the curb. Max, I really respect you and don't want to get into an protracted argument with you. It's clear that our opinion on Cash is 180 degrees different. While you see good players as driving the $300mm payroll I see DJL, Rodon, Stanton and Rizzo being paid $92mm for a combined 0.1 WAR. There are some MLB Teams that don't spend that much on their 26 man roster. Perhaps as Bumper alluded to each signing made sense at the time but I think decision makers need to be accountable for results more than intentions. I see a BP littered with guys pulled off the scrap heap and they aren't getting the job done. You think Cash has done a good job, I don't. Let's agree to disagree because I don't believe either of us will change our opinion any time soon. My only hope is that I live long enough to see him fired so that I can oen a bottle of Opus One and have a small celebration. Brian Cashman is the best general manager in major league baseball at repelling down buildings and sleeping on the sidewalk. I am just happy someone whispered in Cashman's ear a couple years ago that having left-handed hitters in Yankee Stadium is a good base strategy in drafting and acquiring players. Who could have known? |
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Post by anthonyd46 on Jul 10, 2024 19:43:38 GMT -5
Boston and Baltimore both down 3-0 need this one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by kaybli on Jul 10, 2024 20:04:12 GMT -5
Boston and Baltimore both down 3-0 need this one. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk  WRONG THREAD ALERT! WRONG THREAD ALERT!
REPORTED BY OFFICER RIZZUTO.
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Post by rizzuto on Jul 10, 2024 20:05:53 GMT -5
Boston and Baltimore both down 3-0 need this one. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk WRONG THREAD ALERT! WRONG THREAD ALERT!
REPORTED BY OFFICER RIZZUTO.
US Marshall.  |
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Post by pippsheadache on Jul 10, 2024 20:13:54 GMT -5
WRONG THREAD ALERT! WRONG THREAD ALERT!
REPORTED BY OFFICER RIZZUTO.
US Marshall. Anthony is used to that soft treatment from the Greenwich PD. "Do you know who I am?" |
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Post by kaybli on Jul 10, 2024 20:16:25 GMT -5
US Marshall. Anthony is used to that soft treatment from the Greenwich PD. "Do you know who I am?" |
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