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Post by 1955nyyfan on Jul 15, 2024 14:49:59 GMT -5
OK...as with most wins/losses, it was a group effort. Holmes shares in that responsibility, putting the winning runs on base via walks. Just my 2 cents I think they should give Neely a chance, if he doesn't work out as a Closer, the Yankees have time to trade for one. Max, I'd be all for giving Neely a callup but he'd first have to be added to the 40 man. Considering how conservative the Yankees are with rookies, I just don't see them dropping him into a high pressure closer role. Maybe I'm wrong and the kid has extraordinary makeup but I think it's far more likely he cuts his MLB teeth in some less stressful innings. If they can't make a trade and decide to move Holmes out the closer role I think it would be for Weaver. He has a great WHIP of .80 a good ERA of 2.47 and respectable K rate of just over 9 for 9IPs. He seems to have the right makeup and of all the inhouse options I think he would be the best and has probably earned a shot. I'm curious as to your reasoning for jumping Neely above Weaver? |
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Post by qimqam on Jul 15, 2024 14:58:13 GMT -5
No pun intended, but Holmes didn't leave any margin for error. He gave up 2 walks and a hit, that's not a good pitching line for 1 inning. I'm not even counting the hit to LF. He's not fully to blame for the loss, but he played a part in it. I rarely comment re pitching, and I don't get too high or low with wins/losses. But if there's anything that comes close to making my blood boil it's late inning relievers in close games who can't throw strikes. I'd rather have seen Henderson & Rutschman jack game-tying, game-winning HRs than what actually transpired. Call me crazy but ... I'd much rather Volpe get the out at 2nd and if not that Verdugo catches the routine fly for the final out. |
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Post by ypaterson on Jul 15, 2024 15:04:20 GMT -5
Mariano Rivera had a "successful" career as a closer averaging fewer stikeouts per inning than Clay Holmes. This game is not on Holmes. Not fair to go by only the strikeout stat.
Career OBP vs Rivera: .262
Career OBP vs Holmes: .323
Clay Holmes does not exist in the same universe as Mariano Rivera. Holmes is, at best, a better than adequate 9th inning reliever. Rivera is the best "closer" in baseball history. There is no arguing that. And that is not a reason for Verdugo to miss that ball....or for Volpe's misplay either. Holmes is not my guy but that game is not on him. Catch the easy ones. |
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Post by azbob643 on Jul 15, 2024 15:10:32 GMT -5
I rarely comment re pitching, and I don't get too high or low with wins/losses. But if there's anything that comes close to making my blood boil it's late inning relievers in close games who can't throw strikes. I'd rather have seen Henderson & Rutschman jack game-tying, game-winning HRs than what actually transpired. Call me crazy but ... I'd much rather Volpe get the out at 2nd and if not that Verdugo catches the routine fly for the final out. If we get to concoct our ideal scenario, I'd rather Holmes had gotten O'Hearn or Rutschman out rather than walking them, which means the Volpe/Verdugo plays would never have happened. |
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Post by ypaterson on Jul 15, 2024 15:16:05 GMT -5
No pun intended, but Holmes didn't leave any margin for error. He gave up 2 walks and a hit, that's not a good pitching line for 1 inning. I'm not even counting the hit to LF. He's not fully to blame for the loss, but he played a part in it. I rarely comment re pitching, and I don't get too high or low with wins/losses. But if there's anything that comes close to making my blood boil it's late inning relievers in close games who can't throw strikes. I'd rather have seen Henderson & Rutschman jack game-tying, game-winning HRs than what actually transpired. Me too. At least one of the fans might have caught the ball !!!! |
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Post by azbob643 on Jul 15, 2024 15:18:09 GMT -5
I rarely comment re pitching, and I don't get too high or low with wins/losses. But if there's anything that comes close to making my blood boil it's late inning relievers in close games who can't throw strikes. I'd rather have seen Henderson & Rutschman jack game-tying, game-winning HRs than what actually transpired. Me too. At least one of the fans might have caught the ball !!!! Did you see the O's fan rocket Rice's HR ball back onto the field? Hilarious... |
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Post by ypaterson on Jul 15, 2024 15:52:16 GMT -5
Me too. At least one of the fans might have caught the ball !!!! Did you see the O's fan rocket Rice's HR ball back onto the field? Hilarious... He might have figured it was his last chance to impress the scouts before the draft ! |
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Post by bruner4329 on Jul 15, 2024 16:03:05 GMT -5
Yes he did. He left room for 1 error not 2 He still had a bad pitching line. This is the 3rd gut wrenching loss with Holmes on the mound the past 6 weeks. Meltdown in KC, Boston last Friday and yesterday. I also remember a bunch last year including blowing a 4 run lead in Miami. Problem is he does not have an out pitch. Yesterday and even the game against Boston they wore him down fouling off pitches. And that is the other problem. You can't have a "closer" throwing 25-30 pitches an outing because you lose them for the next day. Can't pitch 2 days in a row. |
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Post by inger on Jul 15, 2024 16:27:59 GMT -5
When Holmes is on, he’s a monster. Just can’t be squared up, gets some K’s. When the ball is coming out of the side of his hand Boone should pull him as soon as possible, because he’s not going to get many outs. That’s what was happening in that game. His pitching coach should alert Boone…
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Post by Max on Jul 15, 2024 17:10:36 GMT -5
I expect a Closer to pitch well. Is this silly question time? If so I have 1 for you... Do you expect fielders to not make any errors? Of course fielders make errors. And when they do they don't blame the pitcher like some knuckleheads would. Of the play in the ninth, a simple grounder by Ryan Mountcaste, Volpe said he was “still processing it. To me, it’s a routine ground ball a million times over.”Instead, he said his footwork was off and he didn’t handle the ball properly in time to get the force at second. And then Cedric Mullins lofted a fly ball to left that Alex Verdugo misplayed into a game-winning double.
Statcast listed Verdugo's catch probability on the game-ending hit as 99%, Volpe said of his error, “It’s a play I know I’ve got to make and anything after that doesn’t matter.” Bottom line ... Pretty or not, Holmes did his job ... his fielders did not
Who are these knuckleheads you speak of? I don't remember anyone blaming Holmes for some other players fielding errors, nor do I remember anyone blaming just Holmes for the Yankees losing the game.
Bottom line, it was a poor pitching line no matter how it's spun, despite him getting favorable calls from the homeplate umpire. Besides, Holmes' inconsistent pitching goes beyond just yesterday's game vs the Orioles.
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Post by Max on Jul 15, 2024 17:31:24 GMT -5
Just my 2 cents I think they should give Neely a chance, if he doesn't work out as a Closer, the Yankees have time to trade for one. I'm curious as to your reasoning for jumping Neely above Weaver? I'm not opposed to the Yankees also giving Weaver a chance to Close. I like Neely's strikeout to innings pitched ratio. |
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Post by Max on Jul 15, 2024 17:36:19 GMT -5
Not fair to go by only the strikeout stat.
Career OBP vs Rivera: .262
Career OBP vs Holmes: .323
Clay Holmes does not exist in the same universe as Mariano Rivera. Holmes is, at best, a better than adequate 9th inning reliever. Rivera is the best "closer" in baseball history. There is no arguing that. And that is not a reason for Verdugo to miss that ball....or for Volpe's misplay either. Holmes is not my guy but that game is not on him. Catch the easy ones. Pat, you brought up Holmes' and Rivera's strikeout stats, not me. The OBP stat shows why that it's not fair to go by only their strikeout stats. |
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Post by inger on Jul 15, 2024 17:38:55 GMT -5
The best thing to do with a loss like this one is bury it… And plan ahead to Friday. I don’t care for the all-Star game, so I’ll be somewhat on break until play starts up again…
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Post by Max on Jul 15, 2024 17:46:36 GMT -5
He still had a bad pitching line. This is the 3rd gut wrenching loss with Holmes on the mound the past 6 weeks. Meltdown in KC, Boston last Friday and yesterday. I also remember a bunch last year including blowing a 4 run lead in Miami. Problem is he does not have an out pitch. Yesterday and even the game against Boston they wore him down fouling off pitches. And that is the other problem. You can't have a "closer" throwing 25-30 pitches an outing because you lose them for the next day. Can't pitch 2 days in a row. In my opinion, the Yankees need an upgrade from Holmes Closing games, because of some of the reasons you mentioned. |
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Post by qimqam on Jul 15, 2024 17:48:32 GMT -5
Of course fielders make errors. And when they do they don't blame the pitcher like some knuckleheads would. Of the play in the ninth, a simple grounder by Ryan Mountcaste, Volpe said he was “still processing it. To me, it’s a routine ground ball a million times over.”Instead, he said his footwork was off and he didn’t handle the ball properly in time to get the force at second. And then Cedric Mullins lofted a fly ball to left that Alex Verdugo misplayed into a game-winning double.
Statcast listed Verdugo's catch probability on the game-ending hit as 99%, Volpe said of his error, “It’s a play I know I’ve got to make and anything after that doesn’t matter.” Bottom line ... Pretty or not, Holmes did his job ... his fielders did not
Who are these knuckleheads you speak of? I don't remember anyone blaming Holmes for some other players fielding errors, nor do I remember anyone blaming just Holmes for the Yankees losing the game.
Bottom line, it was a poor pitching line no matter how it's spun, despite him getting favorable calls from the homeplate umpire. Besides, Holmes' inconsistent pitching goes beyond just yesterday's game vs the Orioles.
LOL! No matter how it's spun !! |
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