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Post by Max on Jul 15, 2024 17:52:11 GMT -5
Who are these knuckleheads you speak of? I don't remember anyone blaming Holmes for some other players fielding errors, nor do I remember anyone blaming just Holmes for the Yankees losing the game.
Bottom line, it was a poor pitching line no matter how it's spun, despite him getting favorable calls from the homeplate umpire. Besides, Holmes' inconsistent pitching goes beyond just yesterday's game vs the Orioles.
LOL! No matter how it's spun !! What's funny? What's spun? Isn't that what happened? |
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Post by chiyankee on Jul 15, 2024 18:08:18 GMT -5
This is the 3rd gut wrenching loss with Holmes on the mound the past 6 weeks. Meltdown in KC, Boston last Friday and yesterday. I also remember a bunch last year including blowing a 4 run lead in Miami. Problem is he does not have an out pitch. Yesterday and even the game against Boston they wore him down fouling off pitches. And that is the other problem. You can't have a "closer" throwing 25-30 pitches an outing because you lose them for the next day. Can't pitch 2 days in a row. In my opinion, the Yankees need an upgrade from Holmes Closing games, because of some of the reasons you mentioned. I think the team has bigger needs than replacing Holmes, like finding a hitter to bat behind Judge and third base, which has been a black hole all season. And what about 2nd base if Torres doesn't start hitting? |
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Post by rizzuto on Jul 15, 2024 18:44:18 GMT -5
I had some time so I took a deeper dive into Holmes stats. What surprised me is that the League is hitting .327 off his sinker and he only has an 18% whiff rate on that pitch. He also has a pretty high WOBA of .359 and slightly lower xWOBA of .324. The BA against his sweeper is.250 and the whiff rate is 41%. The WOBA is .263 and XWOBA is 147. The BA against his slider is .063 and whiff rate is 40%. WOBA 1s 117 and XWOBA is 187. Of interest to me is that we've all heard what a great sinker Holmes has but the results would argue against that. He throws it hard but it doesn't move as much as his other pitches and is put into play much more. He also throws his sinker much more than the other two pitches. I have not looked at the numbers, but to me Holmes' sinker is not being thrown for strikes, moving way too much out of the zone, leading to hitters' counts. When he does throw the sinker in the strike zone, it isn't sinking and isn't riding inside to right-handed hitters. He really has struggled all season with what was formerly his best pitch. His slider has been his out pitch this season. |
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Post by rizzuto on Jul 15, 2024 18:46:48 GMT -5
Yankees august schedule is really soft. They also have already played a bunch of their Al East schedule already as they have played Toronto 3 of 4 times, Tampa 3 of 4 times, and Baltimore 3 of 4 times. Only Boston is the one with 2 series left. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk On the broad cast during the game there was a graphic offered that gave the Yankees a 60% chance of making the playoffs vs. 40% for the Orioles. Ben McDonald said he didn’t understand how that could be since the Orioles were (and are still) ahead of us. I figured it had to do with strength of opposition remaining and the fact that the Yankees have a huge number of home games remaining in comparison to Baltimore…  |
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Post by 1955nyyfan on Jul 15, 2024 19:00:38 GMT -5
I'm curious as to your reasoning for jumping Neely above Weaver? I'm not opposed to the Yankees also giving Weaver a chance to Close. I like Neely's strikeout to innings pitched ratio. Yeah, that stat pops out, but he also has a high walk rate and has 2 blown saves in 8 tries. Small sample size and think he will be in the mix for a closer role at some point. I did read an article that said he is one of the chips the Yankees might move because he has some value. |
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Post by chiyankee on Jul 15, 2024 19:09:16 GMT -5
I'm not opposed to the Yankees also giving Weaver a chance to Close. I like Neely's strikeout to innings pitched ratio. Yeah, that stat pops out, but he also has a high walk rate and has 2 blown saves in 8 tries. Small sample size and think he will be in the mix for a closer role at some point. I did read an article that said he is one of the chips the Yankees might move because he has some value. Weaver's been their best reliever this season, they're supposed to keep the producers and try to win. |
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Post by ypaterson on Jul 15, 2024 21:04:48 GMT -5
Clay Holmes does not exist in the same universe as Mariano Rivera. Holmes is, at best, a better than adequate 9th inning reliever. Rivera is the best "closer" in baseball history. There is no arguing that. And that is not a reason for Verdugo to miss that ball....or for Volpe's misplay either. Holmes is not my guy but that game is not on him. Catch the easy ones. Pat, you brought up Holmes' and Rivera's strikeout stats, not me. The OBP stat shows why that it's not fair to go by only their strikeout stats. It isn't. I only brought up that stat to say that it is not impossible to be a successful closer and pitch to contact. The biggest issue with that is, of course, that you rely on your fielders to do a professional job. In general, I don't think the Yankee defense is very good. |
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Post by qimqam on Jul 15, 2024 21:37:38 GMT -5
LOL! No matter how it's spun !! What's funny? What's spun? Isn't that what happened? LOL! Yes ... you tried !!! LOL!!! |
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Post by qimqam on Jul 15, 2024 21:51:04 GMT -5
I'm not opposed to the Yankees also giving Weaver a chance to Close. I like Neely's strikeout to innings pitched ratio. Yeah, that stat pops out, but he also has a high walk rate and has 2 blown saves in 8 tries. Small sample size and think he will be in the mix for a closer role at some point. I did read an article that said he is one of the chips the Yankees might move because he has some value. Wow ... do people flip over small sample sizes Let's just throw out Weavers 8 previous years 4.8 ERA and 1.38 Whip and make him a closer because he pitched twice as well as he's ever pitched over a 50 inn stretch |
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Post by 1955nyyfan on Jul 15, 2024 22:00:03 GMT -5
Yeah, that stat pops out, but he also has a high walk rate and has 2 blown saves in 8 tries. Small sample size and think he will be in the mix for a closer role at some point. I did read an article that said he is one of the chips the Yankees might move because he has some value. Wow ... do people flip over small sample sizes Let's just throw out Weavers 8 previous years 4.8 ERA and 1.38 Whip and make him a closer because he pitched twice as well as he's ever pitched over a 50 inn stretch Maybe just maybe his success this year didn't just happen. The Yankees transitioned him from a guy who was mostly a mediocre starter into a pretty good reliver. Maybe he's better suited to be a RP and he can focus on less pitches and throw harder for one or two innings. Careers aren't linear, some guys make adjustments, change roles. Some improve some regress. Only way to determine if the changes will play over time is to keep giving him opportunities. , |
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Post by Max on Jul 16, 2024 0:07:14 GMT -5
What's funny? What's spun? Isn't that what happened? LOL! Yes ... you tried !!! LOL!!! Nope! Actually I didn't. You accusing me of trying to spin how Holmes pitched, in between your "LOL!" while ignoring the last question I asked you in the post you replied to, speaks volumes. I know it easier to "LOL!" rather than refute what I said but maybe at least try or if you have nothing, just admit Holmes' poor pitching line on Sunday even with some favorable calls by the homeplate umpire can't be defended without any spin. Nor can it be defended by making false accusations, and "LOL!". |
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Post by Max on Jul 16, 2024 0:08:21 GMT -5
Pat, you brought up Holmes' and Rivera's strikeout stats, not me. The OBP stat shows why that it's not fair to go by only their strikeout stats. It isn't. I only brought up that stat to say that it is not impossible to be a successful closer and pitch to contact. The biggest issue with that is, of course, that you rely on your fielders to do a professional job. In general, I don't think the Yankee defense is very good. Again, in the beginning of the season, the Yankees fielding did bailout Holmes more than a couple of times. Being a successful Closer while pitching to contact is 1 thing, it's another thing when pitching to contact comes with wildness and a high OBP. |
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Post by Max on Jul 16, 2024 0:09:15 GMT -5
In my opinion, the Yankees need an upgrade from Holmes Closing games, because of some of the reasons you mentioned. I think the team has bigger needs than replacing Holmes, like finding a hitter to bat behind Judge and third base, which has been a black hole all season. And what about 2nd base if Torres doesn't start hitting? Torres usually hits better in the 2nd half of the season. Don't know, but maybe DJ will too? In my opinion, it's pitching, pitching, pitching. That's why I think that the Yankees priority should be to address the Closer role. |
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Post by Max on Jul 16, 2024 0:16:50 GMT -5
Yeah, that stat pops out, but he also has a high walk rate and has 2 blown saves in 8 tries. Small sample size and think he will be in the mix for a closer role at some point. I did read an article that said he is one of the chips the Yankees might move because he has some value. Wow ... do people flip over small sample sizes Let's just throw out Weavers 8 previous years 4.8 ERA and 1.38 Whip and make him a closer because he pitched twice as well as he's ever pitched over a 50 inn stretch Yeah, maybe also throw out all the many examples of poor and mediocre starting pitchers that got a "chance" to pitch out of the bullpen and became good relief pitchers. Sheesh!
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Post by rizzuto on Jul 16, 2024 7:18:22 GMT -5
Wow ... do people flip over small sample sizes Let's just throw out Weavers 8 previous years 4.8 ERA and 1.38 Whip and make him a closer because he pitched twice as well as he's ever pitched over a 50 inn stretch Maybe just maybe his success this year didn't just happen. The Yankees transitioned him from a guy who was mostly a mediocre starter into a pretty good reliver. Maybe he's better suited to be a RP and he can focus on less pitches and throw harder for one or two innings. Careers aren't linear, some guys make adjustments, change roles. Some improve some regress. Only way to determine if the changes will play over time is to keep giving him opportunities. , Perfectly stated. I remember a Yankee starter who was fair to middling that was nearly trade bait a couple times. He was converted successfully to a reliever, what was his name? Something Rivera? Mariano, maybe? Mo? Something like that. |
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