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Post by Max on Oct 28, 2024 12:56:25 GMT -5
What you saw was a huge injury difference in players sliding head first vs players sliding feet first. So as I said, the article backed up what I said. I didn't say the article backed up what I said verbatim, nor did it have to. As I said… I’d like to know where those statistics came from and, more importantly, how “injury” is defined. Those are very explicit numbers…they must come from a very reliable, exhaustive study. You also asked for data, and data was provided. I'm pretty sure that the word injury is defined the same way that the rest of the world defines it. |
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Post by bumper on Oct 28, 2024 13:18:30 GMT -5
- Where is the Stro show? Your starting pitcher fails to get through the 4th inning and you have 2 starters in your bullpen (3 if you count Gil as I'd seriously consider Cole for 1, 4, and 7). We all know what Nestor did on Friday, but wouldn't this situation be the perfect spot for Stroman? Instead, Boone burned through all of his high leverage relievers for the second night in a row, giving LA another look at them that will hurt later in the series. If you're not going to use Stroman, why is he on the roster? I agree with Boone on this. He went with his normal relievers because he wanted to keep the Dodgers at bay and give his team a chance to come back. The pitchers did their job and the Yanks had the tying run in scoring position in the 9th inning. The hitters, once again, could not come up with the big hit. agree. if you bring stroman in that spot, it's running up the white flag. he's here only to eat innings in blowout. the pen kept us in the game. |
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Post by bumper on Oct 28, 2024 13:28:47 GMT -5
ok that's the rule but seems wrong. not sure why the runner gets rewarded with a base in that circumstance. if the runner was on 3rd, then verdugo would have been better off not going after the ball or even dropping it in the stands. If a live ball goes into dead ball territory, there is always a reward for the offense. If there wasn't, the defense could just catch and carry a ball into dead ball territory to kill the play. MLB definitely doesn't want players trying to make plays from dead ball territory. Imagine if a player were to make a throw from dead ball territory and whacks little Sally Schoolgirl in the back of the noggin. yes it's the rule, but mlb is wrong. you don't "carry" the ball into dead ball territory, usually you're in flight. the fact that the runner would have scored if he was on 3B doesn't feel right. player catches the ball and flies into stands, the ball is dead, the play is dead and runners return to their original base. simple. and you don't have worry about little sally because the ball is dead. you don't penalize a player for making a great play. |
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Post by azbob643 on Oct 28, 2024 14:18:33 GMT -5
As I said… I’d like to know where those statistics came from and, more importantly, how “injury” is defined. Those are very explicit numbers…they must come from a very reliable, exhaustive study. You also asked for data, and data was provided. I'm pretty sure that the word injury is defined the same way that as the rest of the world defines it. What “data’ was provided? What I saw was a statement from the author of the article, with no source citation other than an “MLB study”. And even if it’s true that "players suffered an injury at a rate of one for every 249 headfirst slides and one for every 413 feet first slides" that really doesn’t tell the complete story. There are vast differences in degrees of “injury”. A broken ankle is much more serious than a sprained pinkie or torn fingernail. I’d be interested in learning the degree of injury suffered from either form of slide. As the writer, an orthopaedic surgeon said, “as a whole, foot and ankle injuries are more likely to result in more missed time. Whether it’s a sprained or fractured ankle, these injuries can be season ending injuries.” The simple fact is…players get injured. They get injured being hit by pitches, swinging a bat, running the bases, throwing the ball, running into walls, and sliding into bases, whether it be headfirst or feet first. That’s why there’s an IL. I suppose I could address and challenge the so-called “evidence” and “statistics” posted, much of which is opinion and conjecture. But I’ve got better things to do than go round-n-round with someone who spends most of his time trashing players and insulting others, so I’ll pass. |
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Post by Max on Oct 28, 2024 15:11:52 GMT -5
You also asked for data, and data was provided. I'm pretty sure that the word injury is defined the same way that as the rest of the world defines it. What “data’ was provided? What I saw was a statement from the author of the article, with no source citation other than an “MLB study”. And even if it’s true that "players suffered an injury at a rate of one for every 249 headfirst slides and one for every 413 feet first slides" that really doesn’t tell the complete story. There are vast differences in degrees of “injury”. A broken ankle is much more serious than a sprained pinkie or torn fingernail. I’d be interested in learning the degree of injury suffered from either form of slide. As the writer, an orthopaedic surgeon said, “as a whole, foot and ankle injuries are more likely to result in more missed time. Whether it’s a sprained or fractured ankle, these injuries can be season ending injuries.” The simple fact is…players get injured. They get injured being hit by pitches, swinging a bat, running the bases, throwing the ball, running into walls, and sliding into bases, whether it be headfirst or feet first. That’s why there’s an IL. I suppose I could address and challenge the so-called “evidence” and “statistics” posted, much of which is opinion and conjecture. But I’ve got better things to do than go round-n-round with someone who spends most of his time trashing players and insulting others, so I’ll pass. I don't spend most of my time trashing players and insulting others. If insults come from me I'm returning the favor of already being insulted. I don't trash players unless in my opinion it's warranted. I don't even boo Yankees. After all these years I would think that you know me better than that. As for going round and round, you asked me questions so I answered them.
A broken ankle is much more serious than a sprained pinkie or torn fingernail. Yep, but the other side of the coin is a broken arm, wrist, or concussion is much more serious than a sprained ankle.
The data in the studies posted was provided. Injuries are injuries, plain and simple. The bottom line is that more players get hurt sliding hands first than players sliding feet first.
I haven't seen any studies that dispute that.
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Post by ypaterson on Oct 28, 2024 17:29:25 GMT -5
The numbers quoted in the article came from a study the NIH publised in 2017. The citiation is:
Camp CL, Curriero FC, Pollack KM, Mayer SW, Spiker AM, D'Angelo J, Coleman SH. The Epidemiology and Effect of Sliding Injuries in Major and Minor League Baseball Players. Am J Sports Med. 2017 Aug;45(10):2372-2378. doi: 10.1177/0363546517704835. Epub 2017 May 12. PMID: 28499094.
The same NIH also published a study that shows sliding in feet first is as fast as head first:
Kane SM, House HO, Overgaard KA. Head-first versus feet-first sliding: a comparison of speed from base to base. Am J Sports Med. 2002 Nov-Dec;30(6):834-6. doi: 10.1177/03635465020300061301. PMID: 12435649.
Now armed with all this information: Can someone please explain to me why baserunners always slide back to base head first on a pick off attempt ?
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Post by azbob643 on Oct 28, 2024 17:41:40 GMT -5
I don't spend most of his time trashing players and insulting others. If insults come from me I'm returning the favor of already being insulted. I don't trash players unless in my opinion it's warranted. I don't even boo Yankees. After all these years I would think that you know me better than that.
Should be obvious I wasn't talking about you. |
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Post by azbob643 on Oct 28, 2024 17:43:31 GMT -5
Can someone please explain to me why baserunners always slide back to base head first on a pick off attempt ? Because if they didn't they'd be picked off close to 100% of the time. Same reason most baserunners dive headfirst on steal attempts. |
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Post by Max on Oct 28, 2024 18:25:05 GMT -5
Can someone please explain to me why baserunners always slide back to base head first on a pick off attempt ?
Unlike when a player is running to a base, when a player is in a stationary lead it's much easier and quicker for the player to gain the momentum needed to get back to 1B on a pick off attempt if he slides back to the base head first.
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Post by Max on Oct 28, 2024 18:29:36 GMT -5
I don't spend most of his time trashing players and insulting others. If insults come from me I'm returning the favor of already being insulted. I don't trash players unless in my opinion it's warranted. I don't even boo Yankees. After all these years I would think that you know me better than that.
Should be obvious I wasn't talking about you.
It wasn't, because it was in a reply to my post.
As far as the feet first slide, head first slide topic, I have nothing further to add to the discussion. Enjoy the game.
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Post by azbob643 on Oct 28, 2024 18:30:40 GMT -5
Should be obvious I wasn't talking about you.
It wasn't, because it was in a reply to my post.
As far as the feet first slide, head first slide topic, I have nothing further to add to the discussion. Enjoy the game.
I didn't ask you to add anything... |
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Post by Max on Oct 28, 2024 18:39:28 GMT -5
It wasn't, because it was in a reply to my post.
As far as the feet first slide, head first slide topic, I have nothing further to add to the discussion. Enjoy the game.
I didn't ask you to add anything... I was just politely saying that the discussion is over for me and for you to enjoy the game. I didn't say that you asked me anything. But, now I do have a question for you. What's your problem? I'm asking because your last couple of replies to me sound like someone pissed in your cereal. I hope all is well. |
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Post by azbob643 on Oct 28, 2024 18:48:51 GMT -5
I didn't ask you to add anything... I was just politely saying that the discussion is over for me and for you to enjoy the game. I did say that you asked me anything. But, now I do have a question for you. What's your problem? I'm asking because your last couple of replies to me sound like someone pissed in your cereal. I hope all is well. I have no problem, and all is well. Thanks for asking...my cereal is dry. |
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Post by ypaterson on Oct 28, 2024 18:56:28 GMT -5
Can someone please explain to me why baserunners always slide back to base head first on a pick off attempt ?
Unlike when a player is running to a base, when a player is in a stationary lead it's much easier and quicker for the player to gain the momentum needed to get back to 1B on a pick off attempt if he slides back to the base head first.
The topic is really one that should get attention from fans as well as coaches. I know from experience that teaching kids the front foot slide is not easy. I think video has made it easier, but still it remains difficult. IMO I think it is easier to judge distance with the head first and the motion is more "natural" for most players. I love a well executed front leg slide and I think that with metal spikes, it has huge advantages. Nothing dirty but the prospect of a guy with metal spikes coming at you is more impressive than a foan finger ! My basic point is that there is a time and a place for each !!! Enjoy the game and let's celebrate a win tonight ! |
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Post by qimqam on Oct 28, 2024 22:47:44 GMT -5
As I said… I’d like to know where those statistics came from and, more importantly, how “injury” is defined. Those are very explicit numbers…they must come from a very reliable, exhaustive study. You also asked for data, and data was provided. I'm pretty sure that the word injury is defined the same way that as the rest of the world defines it. Well that depends on how you define ... define |
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