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Post by domeplease on Jan 29, 2019 13:55:51 GMT -5
This response is a perfect microcosm for why a conversation on any of these topics is impossible and the exact reason why the society at large is a total shitshow with dysfunctional politics and why everyone hates each other. I presented a perfectly reasonable high level outline of some of the factors that have to be considered when discussing this complex topic but I guess when one is completely consumed by ideology and out of their depth, this is the best that we can expect to be mustered. The sad thing is that, simply put...as I stated earlier...we have common ground in the recognition of the problem, but we have no common ground once the discussion begins because...well, you know. This is the kind of frustration that might make a President (or congressman) with a bit of a mercurial temper, who is quick to react to statements that frustrate him turn and leave a room. Of course the strategy may appear childish, but he knows if he stays his frustration will grow and eventually he'll say something that will get quoted and mis-interpreted into another of his "LIES"...Taken step by step, one topic at a time, you can break an issue down, dissect it piece by piece and make progress, but when you fully pan your discussion opponent with a barrage of disrespect at the very start of the meeting no one makes any progress... I will say that I was impressed by all of the new dental equipment I saw in the past few weeks. Between the dental office with an X-Ray machine that you stand behind instead of the old "bite down on this routine" to the digital imaging, to the machine the fellow had in his garage that made the teeth...wow. Rapid and impressive change. But it's like I tell my solar prospects, when the power company is abandoning perfectly functional facilities (coal) and building new infrastructure (solar, wind) SOMEONE has to pay for that with higher rates. So to be fair to the dental industry, I get it...to a point. Of course when a guy is telling me he's making teeth for $30, selling them to the dentist for $90 and then the dentist charges me $1700 I don't stop to think about how the dentist is going to pay for the equipment to take the digital image in the first place. (Nor do I really care, the cost is a huge dent in my budget). Medical advances are expensive, they save lives, save teeth, restore function. I just don't want to see the benefit of that equipment helping only the wealthiest Americans because the rest of us can't afford it... Anyway, Dome, c'mon brother. Name calling is a bit childish. You call Trump out for being childish. Don't be that way yourself. Remember when you called me something like an "Old World Thinker" and I called you out on that? Well, heck man, I still love you brother DO, like I told you when I forgive, I forget...But it pisses folks off, and it disappoints them because it's a dialog stopper... INGER (My Spiritual Advisor): I did not call Joe a name (Boy, does this sounds so stupid & childish)...I just inferred he is like talking to Wall. In hindsight, I should have said just that.
But if you or others consider WALL, naming calling, than WOW!!!
After reading some of these comments, it just re-affirms that my decision to move to another country was the RIGHT THING to do; considering Mexico's NATIONAL Health Plan here is so damn cheap.
AND YES, the Minor Fees the Citizens of Mexico Pay (some do not have to pay anything), plus a VAT Tax, more than covers the COST of this Plan, Hospitals, Doctors, Nurses, Meds, Surgeries, Dentists, etc. etc. etc. AND the National Health Plans in France, Norway, etc. are 1,000% better than Mexico's....
I have said enough; for I NOW fear I might offend someone (just joking). You all have a nice day.
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Post by michcusejoe5 on Jan 29, 2019 14:09:48 GMT -5
Im not sure anyone is offended DoMe. An actual discussion would just be nice.
Mexico has among the worst health stats in OECD but I guess if its cheap out of pocket the shitty outcomes are worth it.
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Post by inger on Jan 29, 2019 16:04:38 GMT -5
To be fair I shouldn’t speak for anyone but myself...
But to say what I meant to say more gently and abide by my own advice I wish I had said this more like Michcuse said it. Sure didn’t Intend to offend Dome or push him outside the US border either...
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Post by inger on Jan 29, 2019 16:44:30 GMT -5
I wonder what happens in Mexico when you have a poor outcome? In the good old USA, we call our local ambulance chaser and sue the surgeon/ hospital/ cab driver/ ambulance/ cleaning staff at the hospital...you know...
We were speaking to the surgeon’s assistant today where Ruthie is giving consent for her breast reduction surgery. She said the doctor was recently in the Grand Cayman Islands and they were doing some local work. When they asked where to wash up and clean instruments they were told to use the rest room. There are no medical lawsuits there, you see. “Free” or “Low cost” comes with a risk...
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Post by michcusejoe5 on Jan 29, 2019 16:58:31 GMT -5
I wonder what happens in Mexico when you have a poor outcome? In the good old USA, we call our local ambulance chaser and sue the surgeon/ hospital/ cab driver/ ambulance/ cleaning staff at the hospital...you know... We were speaking to the surgeon’s assistant today where Ruthie is giving consent for her breast reduction surgery. She said the doctor was recently in the Grand Cayman Islands and they were doing some local work. When they asked where to wash up and clean instruments they were told to use the rest room. There are no medical lawsuits there, you see. “Free” or “Low cost” comes with a risk... Nothing more expensive that free, inger. |
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Post by inger on Jan 29, 2019 17:18:15 GMT -5
I wonder what happens in Mexico when you have a poor outcome? In the good old USA, we call our local ambulance chaser and sue the surgeon/ hospital/ cab driver/ ambulance/ cleaning staff at the hospital...you know... We were speaking to the surgeon’s assistant today where Ruthie is giving consent for her breast reduction surgery. She said the doctor was recently in the Grand Cayman Islands and they were doing some local work. When they asked where to wash up and clean instruments they were told to use the rest room. There are no medical lawsuits there, you see. “Free” or “Low cost” comes with a risk... Nothing more expensive that free, inger. How would you feel about our government subsidizing the medical equipment to assure hospitals are up to date vs. subsidizing the actual medical care? I realize that is also expensive, and would require additional taxation, but it would theoretically (or perhaps require) reduce the billing to the patients because the equipment expense burden would be reduced for the medical facilities. |
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Post by michcusejoe5 on Jan 29, 2019 18:04:38 GMT -5
Nothing more expensive that free, inger. How would you feel about our government subsidizing the medical equipment to assure hospitals are up to date vs. subsidizing the actual medical care? I realize that is also expensive, and would require additional taxation, but it would theoretically (or perhaps require) reduce the billing to the patients because the equipment expense burden would be reduced for the medical facilities. I dont know enough about that specifically to have a good opinion on it one way or another but will say that Im against subsidies as a general rule. Subsidies very often squander incentive to innovate (or even maintain) and tend to not have the intended effects. Healthcare is already heavily subsidized in America. I think what would be more effective is taking away these crutches to the market and pushing to shift the insurance model to be one of more catastrophic type coverage (similar to most other types of insurance) as opposed to covering everything under the sun. Also being able to negotiate rates/plans across state lines is a potential option Ive heard that I think makes sense logically (competition is good). The market forces would place downward pressure on prices, as we see elsewhere in the economy. |
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Post by inger on Jan 29, 2019 18:43:35 GMT -5
How would you feel about our government subsidizing the medical equipment to assure hospitals are up to date vs. subsidizing the actual medical care? I realize that is also expensive, and would require additional taxation, but it would theoretically (or perhaps require) reduce the billing to the patients because the equipment expense burden would be reduced for the medical facilities. I dont know enough about that specifically to have a good opinion on it one way or another but will say that Im against subsidies as a general rule. Subsidies very often squander incentive to innovate (or even maintain) and tend to not have the intended effects. Healthcare is already heavily subsidized in America. I think what would be more effective is taking away these crutches to the market and pushing to shift the insurance model to be one of more catastrophic type coverage (similar to most other types of insurance) as opposed to covering everything under the sun. Also being able to negotiate rates/plans across state lines is a potential option Ive heard that I think makes sense logically (competition is good). The market forces would place downward pressure on prices, as we see elsewhere in the economy. I’m pretty much with you on subsidies, but as a middle of the road kind of guy I simply wonder if a middle of the road solution would help us make some progress. At the least perhaps it would break some of the stalemated attitudes where people simply attempt to embarrass or shit the “other side” down. We don’t seem to have much left in our country that’s open to discussion because the opinions of most people have been pushed to the fringes of either conservatism or liberalism... |
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Post by michcusejoe5 on Jan 29, 2019 18:58:31 GMT -5
I dont know enough about that specifically to have a good opinion on it one way or another but will say that Im against subsidies as a general rule. Subsidies very often squander incentive to innovate (or even maintain) and tend to not have the intended effects. Healthcare is already heavily subsidized in America. I think what would be more effective is taking away these crutches to the market and pushing to shift the insurance model to be one of more catastrophic type coverage (similar to most other types of insurance) as opposed to covering everything under the sun. Also being able to negotiate rates/plans across state lines is a potential option Ive heard that I think makes sense logically (competition is good). The market forces would place downward pressure on prices, as we see elsewhere in the economy. I’m pretty much with you on subsidies, but as a middle of the road kind of guy I simply wonder if a middle of the road solution would help us make some progress. At the least perhaps it would break some of the stalemated attitudes where people simply attempt to embarrass or shit the “other side” down. We don’t seem to have much left in our country that’s open to discussion because the opinions of most people have been pushed to the fringes of either conservatism or liberalism... I guess my perspective on the matter is that its pretty clear that the American federal government was a major factor in the healthcare industry getting screwed up and prices running out of control but I am supposed to believe that allowing them to take over the industry (and this is not an exaggeration, it is what is being pushed for by all the mainstream Dem candidates currently) is the solution? Forgive me for balking at such a suggestion. |
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Post by domeplease on Jan 29, 2019 19:23:19 GMT -5
TO THE ABOVE QUOTES AND REFERENCES TO INFERIOR MEDICAL SERVICES BECAUSE OF MEXICO'S (and others)CHEAP (Compared to America) NATIONAL HEALTH PLAN:
I just hang my head down; shake it very slowly from side to side and say "_______________________________________________"(I cannot say what I wanted to put into the Blank) for I SURELY would have offended ALL.
Just Bloody Amazing... |
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Post by inger on Jan 29, 2019 19:27:14 GMT -5
TO THE ABOVE QUOTES AND REFERENCES TO INFERIOR MEDICAL SERVICES BECAUSE OF MEXICO'S (and others)CHEAP (Compared to America) NATIONAL HEALTH PLAN:
I just hang my head down; shake it very slowly from side to side and say "_______________________________________________"(I cannot say what I wanted to put into the Blank) for I SURELY would have offended ALL.
Just Bloody Amazing... My message simply asked you what happened in Mexico in the event of a poor outcome. You haven’t replied to that. The implication I was making is a simple one, that medical malpractice suits are a factor that is running medical costs up in the USA. Do those lawsuits exist in Mexico? It’s a point of comparison and curiosity, that’s all. Apples to apples and so on... |
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Post by michcusejoe5 on Jan 29, 2019 21:22:26 GMT -5
TO THE ABOVE QUOTES AND REFERENCES TO INFERIOR MEDICAL SERVICES BECAUSE OF MEXICO'S (and others)CHEAP (Compared to America) NATIONAL HEALTH PLAN:
I just hang my head down; shake it very slowly from side to side and say "_______________________________________________"(I cannot say what I wanted to put into the Blank) for I SURELY would have offended ALL.
Just Bloody Amazing...
| 2012 | OECD countries (2012) | | Life expectancy at birth (years) | 74.4 | 34th out of 34
| Life expectancy at birth, men (years)
| 71.4 | 33rd out of 34 | Life expectancy at birth, women (years)
| 77.3 | 33rd out of 34 | Life expectancy at 65, men (years)
| 16.7 | 28th out of 34 | Life expectancy at 65, women (years)
| 18.6 | 31st out of 34 | Mortality from cardiovascular diseases
(age-standardized rates per 100,000)
| 272.9 | 34th out of 34 | Mortality from cancer
(age-standardized rates per 100,000)
| 125.1 | 34th out of 34 | Tobacco consumption among adults
(% daily smokers)
| 11.8 | 34th out of 34 | Alcohol consumption among adults
(liters per capita)
| 5.7 | 32nd out of 34 | Obesity rates among adults
| 32.4 | 2nd out of 16 | Health expenditure as % of GDP
| 6.2 | 32nd out of 34 | Health expenditure per capita (US$ PPP)
| 1048 | 33rd out of 34 | Pharmaceutical expenditure per capita
(US$ PPP)
| 70 | 33rd out of 33 | Pharmaceutical expenditure
(% health expenditure)
| 6.8 | 32nd out of 33 | Public expenditure on health
(% health expenditure)
| 50.6 | 32nd out of 34 | Out-of-pocket payments for health care
(% health expenditure)
| 45.2 | 1st out of 34 | Number of doctors (per 1000 population)
| 2.2 | 31st out of 34 | Number of nurses (per 1000 population)
| 2.6 | 33rd out of 34 | Hospital beds (per 1000 population)
| 1.6 | 34th out of 34 |
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Post by inger on Jan 30, 2019 1:45:17 GMT -5
Cellular health is strongly related to environmental factors. The high cancer rate is due to excess smoking, which is likely due to lack of education about the dangers of smoking, for instance. It could also be due to poor water supply, and rampant pollution.
My studies are indicating more and more that our health is strongly correlated with our environment and that by changing our environment we can strongly aid our cellular health and our overall health. The environment can mean many things from where you live to your personal hygiene to your mental mindset.
I believe the entire medical field is still wrapped around much of the work and the attached dogma from some 500 years ago when religion dictated that they be the absolute authority on all matters. The inquisition ensued and restricted the scientists of the day from speaking out against what they were discovering.
Anyway, enough of this radical bullshit for one post. Mexico is still indeed a third world country, pushing hard to become a second world country. Inoculations are not up to US standards, again...lack of education is the likely culprit. No third world countries ever have the wide spread knowledge of how germs are spread or prevented. Therefore as revealing as the stats are, it’s more a revelation of the environment than the results of medical itself.
Numbers can be manipulated, as we all know. Here is a stone cold fact. The number one cause of death in the world right now is...medical treatment. This statement has been made based on the number of people who are being treated for disease A, bit wind up dying from another cause during treatment. But wait a minute...many of those deaths are from pneumonia, the causation of which is lying in bed during recovery. So was the above statement a fair one? Statistically it’s true. In reality, there is a sidebar that must be visited to understand the issue in more depth.
Sorry, maybe that was a double dose of bullshit, but I will assure you that the medical field will proclaim me a heretic and tell you to not listen to the crazy guy typing about health care on a baseball forum...
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Post by noetsi on Jan 30, 2019 13:16:20 GMT -5
Mexico is essentially a failed state. The real danger for the US is that you could have the type of chaos following the 1906 revolution.
Of course I am increasingly less confident that the US is not a failed state. The silliness about the deep state blocks the realization that the US government can no longer do basic things like rebuild its infrastructure.
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Post by inger on Jan 30, 2019 14:05:39 GMT -5
Mexico is essentially a failed state. The real danger for the US is that you could have the type of chaos following the 1906 revolution. Of course I am increasingly less confident that the US is not a failed state. The silliness about the deep state blocks the realization that the US government can no longer do basic things like rebuild its infrastructure. The internet has created a flat economy. The opportunity is essentially the same for anyone in any country to thrive. It will take time for the money to change hands, but in theory all countries will wind up being pretty close to equal from an economic standpoint with the single exception being that a stronger intellect can still out think and put perform... at least for now...as computers do more of the thinking we find that intellect should equalize, too. The membrane of our cellular structure is a semi-conductor with gates and channels. The computer has been designed very much the same way, only the semi-conductors are of liquid crystal material. Was this accidental? I have no idea. Whether that will lead to a world of riches or a world of poverty...or somewhere in between... is yet to be known. Superpower countries as we know them today should cease to exist. Man’s love of mankind and co-operation with other mankind will be the only hope for the survival of our species, at least in a physical state. Good luck with that... |
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