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Post by rizzuto on Nov 27, 2018 10:35:02 GMT -5
Well, I imagine many of you have an inkling of my various opinions of Robinson Cano - at least those familiar with my posts for more than a decade. Cano was a brilliant talent: quick bat, pretty swing, easy power, soft hands, strong and accurate arm, played with flair, could barrel up any pitch, and genuinely appeared to love playing baseball.
And, I suspect you also know my negative perceptions and knocks on Cano over the years: seemed happy winning or losing ball games; did not always run hard on the bases; seldom if ever laid out for a ground ball; didn't want to bat second; had teammates and coaches address his laisse faire attitude; aligned himself with Arod rather than the Core Four; never seemed to care about being a Yankee; supposedly not the greatest father in the world.
As for the offer, I think the Yankees were right to balk, unless Seattle picked up a SIGNIFICANT amount of cash along with Ellsbury. And, I would have hesitated regarding Cano's possibly negative influence on younger players like Torres and Andujar. ARod, Cano, and Melky were all close, and all three had the same affinity to getting an edge...artificially. Just say Ca-No, please.
I have to wonder just how many reasons Seattle has for wanting to trade the face of their franchise?
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Post by inger on Nov 27, 2018 11:21:15 GMT -5
I dunno. After his return, Cano--at the plate-- looked like the same guy he's always been. On the field, he's definitely lost a step.. If the Mariners would throw in $20M and take Ellsbury, it'd be worth it. I think Cano is going to go .287/.410/.360 when he's 40...He's one of the best hitters in the game, still. I think he's, basically, Daniel Murphy with a better arm. It may be a "really bad idea." But I kinda like it. David Ortiz, Paul Molitor, and others, were good DHs till they were 40. Why not Cano? Heck, it ain't MY money. I suspect you've reversed the OBP and Slugging in your post? Cano has never had an OBP close to .400, but .360 would be just a smidge higher than his career average. It was the man's first post on the forum, so you can imagine the jitters he felt realizing that inger, rizzuto, and so on were going to read it... (: Now I feel like the guy that first wrote the "Gilligan's Island" theme and referrer to the Professor and Mary Ann as "all the rest"... But the main point is that Cano will hit .287, not .278 or .293... (: Hope you don't mind the ribbing Wildabeest. It's just the way we are, we mean no harm...Welcome to the forum. I hope you decide to join up as a member and toss ideas around with us...I do agree that the Cano bat is a special one and that he's not likely to fall off to next to nothing, but we all do need to be aware that some degree of his success at some point was due to his use of PEDs... |
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Post by domeplease on Nov 27, 2018 13:08:24 GMT -5
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Post by inger on Nov 27, 2018 13:32:05 GMT -5
For their sake I hope the Red Sox are open to not getting a whole lot back for any of those three...
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Post by chiyankee on Nov 28, 2018 9:18:22 GMT -5
Shelly Duncan is back in the big leagues.
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Post by greatfatness on Nov 28, 2018 9:37:03 GMT -5
I had no idea the Blue Jays had a new manager.
My name is Charlie Montoyo. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
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Post by inger on Nov 28, 2018 10:05:04 GMT -5
I had no idea the Blue Jays had a new manager. My name is Charlie Montoyo. You killed my father. Prepare to die. Now he also has a guy that looks like a goon in Shelley... "Shelley, why don't you take this gentleman for a little ride, you know...show him some of our beautiful countryside"?... |
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Post by chiyankee on Nov 28, 2018 10:27:18 GMT -5
I had no idea the Blue Jays had a new manager. My name is Charlie Montoyo. You killed my father. Prepare to die. Now he also has a guy that looks like a goon in Shelley... "Shelley, why don't you take this gentleman for a little ride, you know...show him some of our beautiful countryside"?... "Leave the Louisville Slugger, take the Cannoli"  |
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Post by inger on Nov 28, 2018 10:41:26 GMT -5
Now he also has a guy that looks like a goon in Shelley... "Shelley, why don't you take this gentleman for a little ride, you know...show him some of our beautiful countryside"?... "Leave the Louisville Slugger, take the Cannoli" “On second thought, show him the beautiful Lake Ontario here in Toronto. Make him feel at home on it. Take the boat we loaded the concrete blocks on yesterday. Take him for a swim with the fishes. That’ll teach him not to run down to first base, not to throw to the wrong goddam base in a tie ball game in the ninth inning. Hell, give him a break. He’s young. We can use him around here. Take his grandmother along. He’ll always remember that”... |
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Post by inger on Nov 28, 2018 10:43:10 GMT -5
Red Sox reporting they have three shitty catchers available. Realmuto trade on the horizon?... |
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Post by chiyankee on Nov 29, 2018 10:28:34 GMT -5
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Post by inger on Nov 29, 2018 11:33:48 GMT -5
I never really got the hype that this year’s free agent class was so outstanding. Sure, there’s Harper and Machado. Talented, but sooo pricey. There’s Corbin... But is he for real? Kimbrel? Is he showing signs of wear and tear? It still appears to me that the best way to improve is through trades... Some of names being floated on the trade market are truly game-changers. Some come with long commitments, some don’t. Goldschmitt. Kluber. Carrasco. Bauer. Syndergaard. Cano. Many players that aren’t being floated by their teams could still be available for the right deal. Seems players on the free agent market tend to become cocky, thinking the world won’t spin and gravity won’t hold if no one gives them the biggest contract in recorded history <ref: Cano>. A traded player often comes to his new team a bit humbled to find that he’s not the semi-god he thought he was, and his former team and city saw through the veneer and will be just fine without him <ref: Cano again>. Keep sifting that sand, Cashman. Thar’s Gold in them thar hills!!! |
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Post by domeplease on Nov 29, 2018 12:21:33 GMT -5
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Post by domeplease on Nov 29, 2018 13:01:25 GMT -5
--11-29-18: bleacherreport.com/articles/2808320-edwin-diaz-is-the-57-save-100-mph-stud-yankees-should-trade-the-farm-for?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial Zachary D. Rymer
Edwin Diaz Is the 57-Save, 100 MPH Stud Yankees Should Trade the Farm for
The New York Yankees have already plucked one flamethower from the Seattle Mariners. But as a wise man once said, "Why stop at one Seattle flamethrower when a second may be within reach?"
OK, fine. Nobody ever said that. But even after adding James Paxton, it's true that the Yankees are eyeing another hard-throwing Mariners hurler, Edwin Diaz.
This is according to Joel Sherman of the New York Post, who reported Tuesday that a who's who of offseason heavyweights have the "strongest interest" in trading for Diaz: the Yankees, New York Mets, Atlanta Braves, Philadelphia Phillies and Boston Red Sox.
The right-hander is coming off an All-Star season in which he led Major League Baseball with 57 saves and (more importantly) posted a 1.96 ERA with 107 more strikeouts than walks in 73.1 innings. He's also only 24 years old, and he's under club control through 2022.
For now, the catch is that acquiring Diaz's talent, youth and cheap controllability might also require taking on Robinson Cano's twilight years and massive contract.
As they seek to retool their roster, the Mariners would reportedly very much like to get out from under the $120 million they owe Cano, 36, through 2023.
Their only hope of doing so may lie in pairing the former Yankees All-Star with a player teams actually want. Per Sherman, that could be Diaz.
But even if this idea falls through—and that's not a big if—Diaz himself might not necessarily come off the block.
Though the Mariners would be loath to part with him, Sherman got the right of the situation from multiple executives: "Having an elite closer on a non-contender has minimal value, and why run the risk of Diaz's value dipping after an elite season?"
What are four years of Diaz worth in a trade? At least what the Yankees got for two-and-a-half years of Andrew Miller in 2016: a four-player package headlined by two top-100 prospects.
Because they've already sacrificed their best prospect (left-hander Justus Sheffield), the Yankees may not like the sound of that.
They must nonetheless accept the fact they need a reliever to fill the holes left by Zach Britton and David Robertson's free agency, and Diaz is the best one they can possibly get.
Diaz has only been in the majors for three seasons, but what he's done in his limited time in The Show is not to be underestimated. Particularly not where his strikeout numbers are concerned.
He's already one of only four relievers in history with multiple seasons of 50-plus innings and a strikeouts-per-nine rate over 15.
With the bar set at 150 relief appearances, his career 14.2 K/9 is the second-best ever for a reliever through his first three seasons:
•1. Craig Kimbrel: 15.9
•2. Edwin Diaz: 14.2
•3. Brad Lidge: 12.7
The biggest reason for Diaz's success is obvious whenever he's pitching in the presence of a radar gun. His fastball routinely touches triple digits, and it had a cruising speed of 97.3 mph in 2018.
He also threw his slider at an average of 89.1 mph.
Not many relievers brought heat like that on both their fastballs and their sliders:
Not to be overlooked, however, is how Diaz evolved into something beyond a mere thrower in 2018.
Unlike in 2016 and 2017, he kept his release point fairly consistent throughout the season. That was a factor in the skyrocketing of his first-pitch strike rate and, in turn, the lowering of his walk rate to 2.1 batters per nine innings.
His mechanical consistency also augmented the unhittability of Diaz's raw stuff. Per Baseball Prospectus' metrics, his pitches were harder to tell apart on release and at the batter's decision-making point.
The natural fear with a guy like Diaz is that he's not far from blowing his arm and/or shoulder out and washing out as a late-inning relief ace.
But all things being equal, that's a greater fear with relievers who have been around the block more times than Diaz has.
That includes all of this winter's name-brand free agents: Kimbrel, Britton, Robertson, Jeurys Familia, Andrew Miller and Adam Ottavino
There's also expense to consider with that bunch. According to MLB Trade Rumors, only Miller projects to sign for less than $10 million per year.
That may be neither here nor there if the Yankees don't care about the luxury tax after finally getting under it in 2018.
But if they'd rather not go back over it right away, they need to carefully budget the $35 million (per Roster Resource) that's currently standing between them and the 2019 threshold of $206 million.
Certainly, it would be better used on Manny Machado or Patrick Corbin.
As for what the Yankees would have to give up for Diaz, they might have to lead with their two best prospects: outfielder Estevan Florial (MLB.com's No. 45) and right-hander Jonathan Loaisiga (No. 66).
As much as that would hurt, it's some consolation that neither is positioned to play a big part for the 2019 Yankees. Diaz would be a much bigger factor in the team's immediate World Series aspirations.
Alternatively, the Yankees might sell the Mariners on a package based on plug-and-play major leaguers.
That could involve former top prospects Clint Frazier and Greg Bird going to Seattle. Perhaps alongside fallen All-Star righty Sonny Gray, whom the Mariners might turn into summer trade bait.
In any case, there are ways to get Diaz to New York that don't involve refitting Cano for pinstripes. With Diaz being one of baseball's great relievers, those certainly ought to interest the Yankees.
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Post by greatfatness on Nov 29, 2018 13:26:41 GMT -5
--11-29-18: bleacherreport.com/articles/2808320-edwin-diaz-is-the-57-save-100-mph-stud-yankees-should-trade-the-farm-for?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial Zachary D. Rymer
Edwin Diaz Is the 57-Save, 100 MPH Stud Yankees Should Trade the Farm for
The New York Yankees have already plucked one flamethower from the Seattle Mariners. But as a wise man once said, "Why stop at one Seattle flamethrower when a second may be within reach?"
OK, fine. Nobody ever said that. But even after adding James Paxton, it's true that the Yankees are eyeing another hard-throwing Mariners hurler, Edwin Diaz.
This is according to Joel Sherman of the New York Post, who reported Tuesday that a who's who of offseason heavyweights have the "strongest interest" in trading for Diaz: the Yankees, New York Mets, Atlanta Braves, Philadelphia Phillies and Boston Red Sox.
The right-hander is coming off an All-Star season in which he led Major League Baseball with 57 saves and (more importantly) posted a 1.96 ERA with 107 more strikeouts than walks in 73.1 innings. He's also only 24 years old, and he's under club control through 2022.
For now, the catch is that acquiring Diaz's talent, youth and cheap controllability might also require taking on Robinson Cano's twilight years and massive contract.
As they seek to retool their roster, the Mariners would reportedly very much like to get out from under the $120 million they owe Cano, 36, through 2023.
Their only hope of doing so may lie in pairing the former Yankees All-Star with a player teams actually want. Per Sherman, that could be Diaz.
But even if this idea falls through—and that's not a big if—Diaz himself might not necessarily come off the block.
Though the Mariners would be loath to part with him, Sherman got the right of the situation from multiple executives: "Having an elite closer on a non-contender has minimal value, and why run the risk of Diaz's value dipping after an elite season?"
What are four years of Diaz worth in a trade? At least what the Yankees got for two-and-a-half years of Andrew Miller in 2016: a four-player package headlined by two top-100 prospects.
Because they've already sacrificed their best prospect (left-hander Justus Sheffield), the Yankees may not like the sound of that.
They must nonetheless accept the fact they need a reliever to fill the holes left by Zach Britton and David Robertson's free agency, and Diaz is the best one they can possibly get.
Diaz has only been in the majors for three seasons, but what he's done in his limited time in The Show is not to be underestimated. Particularly not where his strikeout numbers are concerned.
He's already one of only four relievers in history with multiple seasons of 50-plus innings and a strikeouts-per-nine rate over 15.
With the bar set at 150 relief appearances, his career 14.2 K/9 is the second-best ever for a reliever through his first three seasons:
•1. Craig Kimbrel: 15.9
•2. Edwin Diaz: 14.2
•3. Brad Lidge: 12.7
The biggest reason for Diaz's success is obvious whenever he's pitching in the presence of a radar gun. His fastball routinely touches triple digits, and it had a cruising speed of 97.3 mph in 2018.
He also threw his slider at an average of 89.1 mph.
Not many relievers brought heat like that on both their fastballs and their sliders:
Not to be overlooked, however, is how Diaz evolved into something beyond a mere thrower in 2018.
Unlike in 2016 and 2017, he kept his release point fairly consistent throughout the season. That was a factor in the skyrocketing of his first-pitch strike rate and, in turn, the lowering of his walk rate to 2.1 batters per nine innings.
His mechanical consistency also augmented the unhittability of Diaz's raw stuff. Per Baseball Prospectus' metrics, his pitches were harder to tell apart on release and at the batter's decision-making point.
The natural fear with a guy like Diaz is that he's not far from blowing his arm and/or shoulder out and washing out as a late-inning relief ace.
But all things being equal, that's a greater fear with relievers who have been around the block more times than Diaz has.
That includes all of this winter's name-brand free agents: Kimbrel, Britton, Robertson, Jeurys Familia, Andrew Miller and Adam Ottavino
There's also expense to consider with that bunch. According to MLB Trade Rumors, only Miller projects to sign for less than $10 million per year.
That may be neither here nor there if the Yankees don't care about the luxury tax after finally getting under it in 2018.
But if they'd rather not go back over it right away, they need to carefully budget the $35 million (per Roster Resource) that's currently standing between them and the 2019 threshold of $206 million.
Certainly, it would be better used on Manny Machado or Patrick Corbin.
As for what the Yankees would have to give up for Diaz, they might have to lead with their two best prospects: outfielder Estevan Florial (MLB.com's No. 45) and right-hander Jonathan Loaisiga (No. 66).
As much as that would hurt, it's some consolation that neither is positioned to play a big part for the 2019 Yankees. Diaz would be a much bigger factor in the team's immediate World Series aspirations.
Alternatively, the Yankees might sell the Mariners on a package based on plug-and-play major leaguers.
That could involve former top prospects Clint Frazier and Greg Bird going to Seattle. Perhaps alongside fallen All-Star righty Sonny Gray, whom the Mariners might turn into summer trade bait.
In any case, there are ways to get Diaz to New York that don't involve refitting Cano for pinstripes. With Diaz being one of baseball's great relievers, those certainly ought to interest the Yankees.
I stopped reading at the suggestion that the Yankees “trade the farm” for a closer. |
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