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Post by kaybli on Dec 4, 2018 22:40:38 GMT -5
They did want Andujar, but the secondary piece would either have been Sheffield (who they jettisoned a year later for Paxton anyway) or Florial. They didn't value Frazier as much.
Ultimately, the Yankees grew comfortable with a package centered around Frazier, though Pittsburgh wanted Andujar and Frazier. A bidding war did not emerge, as both the Yankees and Astros positioned themselves as content to move on without Cole.
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Post by inger on Dec 4, 2018 22:43:27 GMT -5
Neither Happ nor Eovaldi is going to require a six year investment of $140M so neither would have to check as many boxes as Corbin to be attractive options. I’d say those two are likely to get somewhere from 13-17M per year for three years. Yes. That is an overlay for Eovaldi given his history, but post-season exposure and success even seems to turn GMs into dolts...
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Post by inger on Dec 4, 2018 22:54:35 GMT -5
Here’s a history lesson that may apply to Corbin. Last season Corbin dramatically increased his usage of his nasty slider and it brought him amazing improvement in his peripherals.
Back in 1980, Steve Stone of the Orioles, a perennial .500 pitcher who typically put up ERA+ of around 90 every season decided to go “all in” with his best pitch, which was his curve ball. He wound up throwing it as much as 95% of the time in some of his starts, and was said to have thrown it about 75% of the time that season.
Stone won the Cy Young Award in the AL that year. In 1981, Stone finished the season 4-7 and never pitched again due to the damage to his arm. To his credit, he said after that he had no regrets. He would rather have had that one great season than be able to continue in mediocrity until his career mercifully would have ended a few years later...
Could Corbin become a similar story? Will he make the adjustments he needs to when the scouting reports catch up to him? Only time will tell, but I won’t cry for his decision to chase the money, nor the Yankees decision to not offer more than they felt was wise...
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Post by inger on Dec 4, 2018 22:58:32 GMT -5
They did want Andujar, but the secondary piece would either have been Sheffield (who they jettisoned a year later for Paxton anyway) or Florial. They didn't value Frazier as much.
Ultimately, the Yankees grew comfortable with a package centered around Frazier, though Pittsburgh wanted Andujar and Frazier. A bidding war did not emerge, as both the Yankees and Astros positioned themselves as content to move on without Cole.
Simply imagine the depths the Yankee offense would have slipped to without a Andujar late last season when Judge was out of the lineup and Stanton went into his deep funk...Cole wouldn’t have helped us out of that hole unless he could grab a bat on his off days... |
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Post by greatfatness on Dec 5, 2018 5:17:22 GMT -5
Neither Happ nor Eovaldi is going to require a six year investment of $140M so neither would have to check as many boxes as Corbin to be attractive options. I’d say those two are likely to get somewhere from 13-17M per year for three years. Yes. That is an overlay for Eovaldi given his history, but post-season exposure and success even seems to turn GMs into dolts... If there are teams willing to give Eovaldi 4 years the Yankees will be out. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 6:38:35 GMT -5
Well, at 36, Happ wants three years which is also nonsense, so that leaves Paxton, Sevi, Tanaka, CC and who? I Guess they could keep Gray, but even with that it’s dumb to go into a season with only five SPs.
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Post by michcusejoe5 on Dec 5, 2018 9:31:52 GMT -5
Saw some stuff on Twitter this morning that maybe the Indians would trade one of their starters (Kluber, Carrasco, Bauer) but also want to unload Kipnis (1 year $17mm plus a team option or $2.5mm buyout remaining) as part of a potential deal. I would be down for taking on Kipnis for a year to get one of those starters. Kipnis has been pretty bad the last couple of years but if it allows the Yankees to gain one of those SP and also not have to sacrifice as high quality of prospects. Kipnis could fill in at 2B until Didi returns and then become an IF/OF utility man once Didi returns. Also worth noting with Kipnis is that he is a LHB who averages approx 20 HRs over a full season span (this number could be enhanced by being in YS3 vs. Cleveland).
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Post by monkey4sale on Dec 5, 2018 9:53:11 GMT -5
Saw some stuff on Twitter this morning that maybe the Indians would trade one of their starters (Kluber, Carrasco, Bauer) but also want to unload Kipnis (1 year $17mm plus a team option or $2.5mm buyout remaining) as part of a potential deal. I would be down for taking on Kipnis for a year to get one of those starters. Kipnis has been pretty bad the last couple of years but if it allows the Yankees to gain one of those SP and also not have to sacrifice as high quality of prospects. Kipnis could fill in at 2B until Didi returns and then become an IF/OF utility man once Didi returns. Also worth noting with Kipnis is that he is a LHB who averages approx 20 HRs over a full season span (this number could be enhanced by being in YS3 vs. Cleveland). I would be interested in that; what do you think Cleveland would want in return? |
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Post by inger on Dec 5, 2018 10:56:21 GMT -5
They would likely want either Torres or Andujar to headline the package...Then it becomes a negotiation to see which MiLB player(s) they'd want. Florial would be on the table for Kluber and Carrasco...maybe a lesser piece for Bauer...I'd be good with dealing...
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Post by michcusejoe5 on Dec 5, 2018 13:10:09 GMT -5
Saw some stuff on Twitter this morning that maybe the Indians would trade one of their starters (Kluber, Carrasco, Bauer) but also want to unload Kipnis (1 year $17mm plus a team option or $2.5mm buyout remaining) as part of a potential deal. I would be down for taking on Kipnis for a year to get one of those starters. Kipnis has been pretty bad the last couple of years but if it allows the Yankees to gain one of those SP and also not have to sacrifice as high quality of prospects. Kipnis could fill in at 2B until Didi returns and then become an IF/OF utility man once Didi returns. Also worth noting with Kipnis is that he is a LHB who averages approx 20 HRs over a full season span (this number could be enhanced by being in YS3 vs. Cleveland). I would be interested in that; what do you think Cleveland would want in return? Not really sure...my gut reaction was that any of those 3 SP would cost Florial which I would def balk at initially but maybe taking on Kipnis money could help to avoid that. |
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Post by greatfatness on Dec 5, 2018 14:21:45 GMT -5
I would be interested in that; what do you think Cleveland would want in return? Not really sure...my gut reaction was that any of those 3 SP would cost Florial which I would def balk at initially but maybe taking on Kipnis money could help to avoid that. I would not be excited about them taking back Kipnis. Unless somehow their major league scouting really believed he was better than it seems as they interpreted correctly with Gregorious and Hicks, for example. What I like about their approach of late is the discipline. Taking on someone else’s dead weight doesn’t match that strategy. If Kluber can be bad for a package built around Florial and Andujar and Torres stay here, I make that deal. He’s a very good starting pitcher with a reasonable contract, still in his prime. I know the Yanks front office loves Florial but he’s 20 in A ball. That’s not someone who should stand in the way of acquiring a good starting pitcher when that’s an area of current need. The question is how much else we would need to include to make that deal work. Florial alone doesn’t come close to getting it done I don’t think. |
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Post by inger on Dec 5, 2018 15:06:26 GMT -5
I'm not all that afraid of Kipnis. He produced 1.4 fielding war at 2B last year in spite of only playing the position about 2/3 of the time as Jose Ramirez moved back and forth from third and Kipnis did some light fill in at CF (14 games). Our boy Torres is still learning, but his fielding war was (-0.7) and his lack of patience in the field was often the cause of mistakes. He has plenty of time to learn of course, and I believe he would do some better at SS if given the opportunity this year.
Because of Cleveland's "situation", I think they would be delighted to move Ramirez to 2B and add Andujar as a 3B, or take on Torres for 2nd and leave Ramirez at 3B...They have flexibility to add either player...
As for Kipnis, in 2016, when he hit .275, he had a .324 BABIP. In 2017, while injured part of the season, he had a BABIP of .256, and in 2018 his BABIP was .258. It would appear there may be a reason to have some expectation of a return to the mean in 2019, as he is only going to be 32...And YS may help as well...I was a fan of his in the good years of 2015-2016 and saw him as a burgeoning star...
I agree that Florial is more filler than target in any trade right now, but he'd be a delicious filler for Cleveland to reach for...
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Post by michcusejoe5 on Dec 5, 2018 16:07:59 GMT -5
Not really sure...my gut reaction was that any of those 3 SP would cost Florial which I would def balk at initially but maybe taking on Kipnis money could help to avoid that. I would not be excited about them taking back Kipnis. Unless somehow their major league scouting really believed he was better than it seems as they interpreted correctly with Gregorious and Hicks, for example. What I like about their approach of late is the discipline. Taking on someone else’s dead weight doesn’t match that strategy. If Kluber can be bad for a package built around Florial and Andujar and Torres stay here, I make that deal. He’s a very good starting pitcher with a reasonable contract, still in his prime. I know the Yanks front office loves Florial but he’s 20 in A ball. That’s not someone who should stand in the way of acquiring a good starting pitcher when that’s an area of current need. The question is how much else we would need to include to make that deal work. Florial alone doesn’t come close to getting it done I don’t think. Kipnis doesnt excite me either but if its just the single year and nets you something thats more important to you (like a Kluber or Carrasco) then I think the trade off is worth it because you are only committed to the dollars for a single year then the problem is gone. I dont think it shows a lack of discipline because there is no long term commitment. They wouldnt be taking him on to be a critical long-term piece into the future; he would play some 2B the first half of the year then be a LH utility man who could play both IF and OF once Didi returns. Id balk at Florial depending on who the rest of the package is but you are right about his age and distance from the Majors. Its just always a tough pill to swallow to move your number one prospect. |
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Post by greatfatness on Dec 5, 2018 16:13:03 GMT -5
I would not be excited about them taking back Kipnis. Unless somehow their major league scouting really believed he was better than it seems as they interpreted correctly with Gregorious and Hicks, for example. What I like about their approach of late is the discipline. Taking on someone else’s dead weight doesn’t match that strategy. If Kluber can be bad for a package built around Florial and Andujar and Torres stay here, I make that deal. He’s a very good starting pitcher with a reasonable contract, still in his prime. I know the Yanks front office loves Florial but he’s 20 in A ball. That’s not someone who should stand in the way of acquiring a good starting pitcher when that’s an area of current need. The question is how much else we would need to include to make that deal work. Florial alone doesn’t come close to getting it done I don’t think. Kipnis doesnt excite me either but if its just the single year and nets you something thats more important to you (like a Kluber or Carrasco) then I think the trade off is worth it because you are only committed to the dollars for a single year then the problem is gone. I dont think it shows a lack of discipline because there is no long term commitment. They wouldnt be taking him on to be a critical long-term piece into the future; he would play some 2B the first half of the year then be a LH utility man who could play both IF and OF once Didi returns. Id balk at Florial depending on who the rest of the package is but you are right about his age and distance from the Majors. Its just always a tough pill to swallow to move your number one prospect. That’s fair. I don’t want to make it seem like I’mdown one Florial or he’s irrelevant. I just think sometimes you need to trade value to solve a problem. To me Kluber presents a nice mix of ability, age and value in his contract. I think his skill set and profile slots in nicely on the Yankees roster. |
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Post by michcusejoe5 on Dec 5, 2018 17:36:46 GMT -5
Kipnis doesnt excite me either but if its just the single year and nets you something thats more important to you (like a Kluber or Carrasco) then I think the trade off is worth it because you are only committed to the dollars for a single year then the problem is gone. I dont think it shows a lack of discipline because there is no long term commitment. They wouldnt be taking him on to be a critical long-term piece into the future; he would play some 2B the first half of the year then be a LH utility man who could play both IF and OF once Didi returns. Id balk at Florial depending on who the rest of the package is but you are right about his age and distance from the Majors. Its just always a tough pill to swallow to move your number one prospect. That’s fair. I don’t want to make it seem like I’mdown one Florial or he’s irrelevant. I just think sometimes you need to trade value to solve a problem. To me Kluber presents a nice mix of ability, age and value in his contract. I think his skill set and profile slots in nicely on the Yankees roster. Totally agree...like I said, for me, its going to depend on the rest of the package. A lot of guys have graduated to the bigs (or a handful have been moved) so the system doesnt seem quite as powerful as it once was...but at this point it doesnt necessarily need to be in the immediate term bc of how the big club is currently positioned. |
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