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Post by inger on Mar 27, 2022 15:47:53 GMT -5
When the Yankees chose to not tender White at age 36, he played three more seasons in Japan. He only wanted to play for the Yankees in America. He put up a three year stat line of .283/.361/ .461…
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Post by rizzuto on Mar 27, 2022 17:30:00 GMT -5
When the Yankees chose to not tender White at age 36, he played three more seasons in Japan. He only wanted to play for the Yankees in America. He put up a three year stat line of .283/.361/ .461… Solid numbers, all the way around.
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Post by inger on Mar 27, 2022 17:31:45 GMT -5
When the Yankees chose to not tender White at age 36, he played three more seasons in Japan. He only wanted to play for the Yankees in America. He put up a three year stat line of .283/.361/ .461… Solid numbers, all the way around. His first year there he rocked 29 HR. He added 25 combined in the other two years…
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Post by inger on Mar 27, 2022 17:40:09 GMT -5
Here is nice synopsis on Bill James evaluation process on Roy White vs. Jim Rice. I like this, not because White comes out ahead, but because the empirical argument matches mine from many years. The triple crown slash, the more modern BA//OBP/SLG/OPS+ is highly visible. The entire player is a much deeper dig that most will never do when voting for the Hall of Fame or even simply to understand what a good player is.
I'll summarize from The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract.
James points out that Rice's typical triple-crown states from 1979-79 were 34, 114, .311, while White's typical states from 1968-72 were 15, 74, .283. However, White had 87 walks per season compared to Rice's 46, struck out only 58 times as compared to Rice's 118, and stole 20 bases per year compared to Rice's 8 with a better stolen base percentage. White also grounded into fewer double plays, and had more sacrifice hits and flies than Rice.
Now, according to James, Rice was creating 115 runs per season, while White was creating 94 per season. But during White's playing days, the AL averaged 3.80 runs per team per game, and Yankee Stadium reduced runs scored by 9%. During Rice's peak period, the AL averaged 4.34 runs per team per game, and Fenway Park increased run scoring by 20%. According to James, "Making that adjustment, White's 94 runs per season represent about 26 games worth of team offense (94 divided by 3.65), while Rice's 115 runs represent about 24 games worth of offense (115 divided by 4.73)."
James then proceeds to state that White made 419 outs per season, while Rice made 456, and White was better than Rice in the field. He also points out that in 1977 and 1979, Rice hit 39 home runs, but only 12 of them were on the road; White in his best years would hit 10 home runs at home, and 10 on the road. * Note from inger here. Since White only hit 20+ HR in one season, this may best out that James had a bias. Nonetheless, his formula and logic win out.
Finally, we'll look at win shares.
Lifetime White - 263 Rice - 282
Best three seasons White - 34, 29, 29 Rice - 36, 28, 28
Best five consecutive seasons White - 140 Rice - 127
Win shares per 162 games White - 22.65 Rice - 21.85
That's Bill James' argument. He states that "There isn't an ocean between them, just a stream." For the record, James placed White as the 25th best major league left fielder of all time, while he placed Rice 27th on the list of left fielders.
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Post by inger on Mar 27, 2022 22:22:31 GMT -5
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Post by desousa on Mar 28, 2022 15:34:21 GMT -5
Roy White was a player if he watched him everyday, you would know he was underrated. Numbers don't jump out at you, but he was a rock for many seasons. Played on some bad Yankee teams, but endured long enough to get a couple rings. I belong to a FB page called The Horace Clarke Years where he is given the status that he's due.
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