|
|
Post by acuraman on Dec 8, 2022 21:02:56 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by inger on Dec 8, 2022 21:09:34 GMT -5
I’m sort of glad. He belongs to them. He’s not going to make or break them, but he can become a Gardner-like presence for them in time… |
|
|
|
Post by inger on Dec 8, 2022 21:10:53 GMT -5
This is okay. He’s up in years, not going to last forever. We have plenty of younger arms. High on my list of favorite ex-Yanks. I wish him well… |
|
|
|
Post by acuraman on Dec 8, 2022 21:12:26 GMT -5
Yankees better sign this guy.
|
|
|
|
Post by inger on Dec 8, 2022 21:24:38 GMT -5
Yankees better sign this guy. Come home with us, son… let’s whip some Astro Ass… |
|
|
|
Post by rizzuto on Dec 8, 2022 21:44:05 GMT -5
Carpenter was fun while he lasted. It was a nice spurt, but he’s unlikely to repeat last season’s success. We can remember him the same way we remember the ‘next man up’ gang of 2019. Tauchman, Ford, Maybin. But some things only last a little while… “Hurricane” Bob Hazle never came close to repeating 1957. There’s no shame in it. It’s beautiful while it’s happening… Art Shamsky, Bernie Carbo. There have been others… Your mention of Bernie Carbo sent me over to baseballref. I always thought that guy had enormous ability, but he squandered so much of it by being a serious druggie and alcoholic. I know he's most famous for the pinch-hit three-run homer in Game Six of the 1975 World Series that sent the game into extra innings and paved the way for the even more famous Carlton Fisk game-winner. But he had a decent, if truncated, career. Twelve seasons -- although only six in which he played more than 100 games -- ending up with a .387 OBP and a 126 OPS+. He was the fourth OFer on that 75 Red Sox team, playing behind Evans, Lynn and Rice -- one of the great outfields of the past 50 years -- he still managed 407 PAs and hit 15 HRs, had an OBP of .409 and an OPS+ of 143. Not bad for a reserve. He was the Reds' first pick in the first-ever draft in 1965 -- Johnny Bench was their second round pick. He messed up his life so badly that for a time he was dependent on financial help from the Baseball Assistance Team for indigent ex-players. At some point in the 1990s he Got Religion and straightened himself out and seemingly has done well ever since. Hurricane Hazle is one of my early baseball memories. He seemed like a phantom when he came up with the Braves late in 1957 and hit .403 with an OPS+ of 209 in 41 games. He was a big factor in them winning the World Series. I remember seeing him play and figuring this must have been what it was like to see Ted Williams in his early days. In fact he slumped a bit late in the season to go down to .403 -- he was up over .500 for about twenty games. But he got beaned twice early in 1958 and hit only .179 in 20 games when the Braves traded him to Detroit, where he managed to hit .241 in 43 games. And that was it for his major league career. He still wound up with a .310/.390/.467 and an OPS+ of 134 for his 110-game career. He wasn't quite a Mark Fidrych-level one-year phenom -- the media infrastructure wasn't in place for that, and he wasn't colorful like The Bird -- but even casual fans were well aware of his quasi-legendary exploits for those couple of months. Anyone who was following baseball in 1957 will remember Hurricane Hazle. He spent a career in sales and died in 1992 at age 61. And I notice that tomorrow would have been his 92nd birthday. That was a great outfield, and you didn't even mention Yastrzemski and now I know why. Yaz played a mere eight games in the outfield that season, manning first base. I didn't realize that the Red Sox DH was Cecil Cooper who hit .311 with an OPS of .899. Fisk had an incredible season batting .331, as did Fred Lynn, with OPSs of .923 and .967, respectively. Thank you for the information on Bernie Carbo, a player I knew a bit as a "What could have been?" but did not know he was a first round draft pick. What an era for catchers that was with Johnny Bench and Ray Fosse and Gene Tenace drafted in 1965, Carlton Fisk and Ted Simmons and Steve Yeager in 1967, Thurman Munson and Joe Ferguson in 1968, Jim Sundberg and Bob Boone in 1969, Brian Downing and Darrell Porter in 1970, Gary Carter in 1972. Coming in to a league already with Bill Freehan, Joe Torre, Tom Haller, Tim McCarver, Manny Sanguillen, and the final years of Elston Howard. Also, what happened to Dick Dietz? Why was his career so short? |
|
|
|
Post by rizzuto on Dec 8, 2022 21:45:21 GMT -5
He's probably better than Benintendi, but I doubt the Yankees wanted to go eight years. |
|
|
|
Post by rizzuto on Dec 8, 2022 22:12:15 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by inger on Dec 9, 2022 0:13:45 GMT -5
Your mention of Bernie Carbo sent me over to baseballref. I always thought that guy had enormous ability, but he squandered so much of it by being a serious druggie and alcoholic. I know he's most famous for the pinch-hit three-run homer in Game Six of the 1975 World Series that sent the game into extra innings and paved the way for the even more famous Carlton Fisk game-winner. But he had a decent, if truncated, career. Twelve seasons -- although only six in which he played more than 100 games -- ending up with a .387 OBP and a 126 OPS+. He was the fourth OFer on that 75 Red Sox team, playing behind Evans, Lynn and Rice -- one of the great outfields of the past 50 years -- he still managed 407 PAs and hit 15 HRs, had an OBP of .409 and an OPS+ of 143. Not bad for a reserve. He was the Reds' first pick in the first-ever draft in 1965 -- Johnny Bench was their second round pick. He messed up his life so badly that for a time he was dependent on financial help from the Baseball Assistance Team for indigent ex-players. At some point in the 1990s he Got Religion and straightened himself out and seemingly has done well ever since. Hurricane Hazle is one of my early baseball memories. He seemed like a phantom when he came up with the Braves late in 1957 and hit .403 with an OPS+ of 209 in 41 games. He was a big factor in them winning the World Series. I remember seeing him play and figuring this must have been what it was like to see Ted Williams in his early days. In fact he slumped a bit late in the season to go down to .403 -- he was up over .500 for about twenty games. But he got beaned twice early in 1958 and hit only .179 in 20 games when the Braves traded him to Detroit, where he managed to hit .241 in 43 games. And that was it for his major league career. He still wound up with a .310/.390/.467 and an OPS+ of 134 for his 110-game career. He wasn't quite a Mark Fidrych-level one-year phenom -- the media infrastructure wasn't in place for that, and he wasn't colorful like The Bird -- but even casual fans were well aware of his quasi-legendary exploits for those couple of months. Anyone who was following baseball in 1957 will remember Hurricane Hazle. He spent a career in sales and died in 1992 at age 61. And I notice that tomorrow would have been his 92nd birthday. That was a great outfield, and you didn't even mention Yastrzemski and now I know why. Yaz played a mere eight games in the outfield that season, manning first base. I didn't realize that the Red Sox DH was Cecil Cooper who hit .311 with an OPS of .899. Fisk had an incredible season batting .331, as did Fred Lynn, with OPSs of .923 and .967, respectively. Thank you for the information on Bernie Carbo, a player I knew a bit as a "What could have been?" but did not know he was a first round draft pick. What an era for catchers that was with Johnny Bench and Ray Fosse and Gene Tenace drafted in 1965, Carlton Fisk and Ted Simmons and Steve Yeager in 1967, Thurman Munson and Joe Ferguson in 1968, Jim Sundberg and Bob Boone in 1969, Brian Downing and Darrell Porter in 1970, Gary Carter in 1972. Coming in to a league already with Bill Freehan, Joe Torre, Tom Haller, Tim McCarver, Manny Sanguillen, and the final years of Elston Howard. Also, what happened to Dick Dietz? Why was his career so short? Dietz, still the only catcher in MLB history to have a season with a season with a .300 average, 100 runs scored and 100 RBIs suffered from Gary Sanchez-like passed balls and general defensive inability. He also suffered from being a very vocal union leader. This made him somewhat of a pariah to the owners, and was likely the #1 reason that he was discarded and not signed… |
|
|
|
Post by pippsheadache on Dec 9, 2022 6:14:00 GMT -5
He's probably better than Benintendi, but I doubt the Yankees wanted to go eight years. I would have loved getting him because I think he was the best free agent OFer remaining, but I agree the Yanks weren't going to go to eight years. The Mets projected opening day payroll is now $320 million, the first team ever to surpass $300 million to start the season. I hope Hal is taking notes. We're not dealing with Fred Wilpon anymore. |
|
|
|
Post by inger on Dec 9, 2022 7:03:50 GMT -5
He's probably better than Benintendi, but I doubt the Yankees wanted to go eight years. I would have loved getting him because I think he was the best free agent OFer remaining, but I agree the Yanks weren't going to go to eight years. The Mets projected opening day payroll is now $320 million, the first team ever to surpass $300 million to start the season. I hope Hal is taking notes. We're not dealing with Fred Wilpon anymore. If Hal wants to own NY, he’s going to have pay for it… |
|
|
|
Post by pippsheadache on Dec 9, 2022 7:35:54 GMT -5
What an era for catchers that was with Johnny Bench and Ray Fosse and Gene Tenace drafted in 1965, Carlton Fisk and Ted Simmons and Steve Yeager in 1967, Thurman Munson and Joe Ferguson in 1968, Jim Sundberg and Bob Boone in 1969, Brian Downing and Darrell Porter in 1970, Gary Carter in 1972. Coming in to a league already with Bill Freehan, Joe Torre, Tom Haller, Tim McCarver, Manny Sanguillen, and the final years of Elston Howard. Also, what happened to Dick Dietz? Why was his career so short? Dietz, still the only catcher in MLB history to have a season with a season with a .300 average, 100 runs scored and 100 RBIs suffered from Gary Sanchez-like passed balls and general defensive inability. He also suffered from being a very vocal union leader. This made him somewhat of a pariah to the owners, and was likely the #1 reason that he was discarded and not signed… Yeah, I think Inger has it right. Heading into the 1972 strike year, nine of the then 24 team player reps were either released or traded. According to Dietz's teammate pitcher John D'Acquisto, Dietz was very well-liked by the players but he was definitely a union ringleader. D'Acquisto noted that team reps who were also star players were generally left alone, but anyone perceived as being expendable was let go. That didn't stop the Dodgers from picking him up off of waivers just before the 1972 season, but he broke his wrist and missed most of that year. The Braves got him as a back-up for Johnny Oates in 1973. In 191 PAs he had a .295/.474/.425 with an OPS+ of 145. The Braves cut him at age 32 and he never got back in the major leagues. What would you give for a backup catcher with a .474 OBP and 145 OPS+? Dietz in fact has the third-highest OBP all-time for a catcher, behind only Mickey Cochrane and Wally Schang (there's that name again.) It's true that Dietz had a lot of passed balls, but two of the pitchers he caught the most were Gaylord Perry and Juan Marichal, who were difficult not only to hit but to catch. Dietz caught 290 games in 70-71, so he had a lot of opportunities for passed balls. He succeeded another very good catcher in Tom Haller. You're right, there was an excess of good catchers in the late 60s and into the 70s. You named most of them, but another I would add is Jerry Grote, more for defense than hitting. He was very agile behind the dish. |
|
|
|
Post by acuraman on Dec 9, 2022 12:07:15 GMT -5
somebody tell Cash that the D'backs are looking for a 3rd basemen. He can dump Donaldson plus $10M. They don't need OF's though (Hicks).
|
|
|
|
Post by acuraman on Dec 9, 2022 14:54:00 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by desousa on Dec 9, 2022 15:07:00 GMT -5
I've been saying it all along, this is the guy you don't tread. All the boxes are checked, he's going to be a good one. |
|
