On World Series winning teams and shutouts.
Apr 22, 2024 17:02:37 GMT -5
kaybli, rizzuto, and 3 more like this
Post by qwik3457bb on Apr 22, 2024 17:02:37 GMT -5
In my last reply in today's game thread, I included this comment to give my final thoughts on what's going on right now with the Yankees' team, especially the dismal offense they've displayed on this homestand:
"Yanks lose 2-0, the 4th time they've been shutout in 23 games, on pace to get shut out 28 times this season. I find it hard to believe that any team that has won a title has ever been shut out that many times, even in the dead ball days before 1920, or the other dead ball era of the 1960s This is now a serious problem. Judge, Torres and Volpe's slumps hurting them badly now."
Those of you who know me from my long years at the YES Message Boards know I don't like to leave implied questions like that hanging if there's a way to research it, and after a quick tour down the Playoff Index at Baseball Reference, I've found the definitive answer to that "question".
First, a few odds and ends: I didn't do an exact average, but the average number of shutouts thrown against World Series winning teams appears to be 6 to 8, and the large majority of the title winners were shut out between 5-10 times. The average went up a little in the dead ball eras from 1905-1919 and again from 1963-1974.
At the low end, there were three title teams that were shut out 3 times: the 1950 and 1977 Yankees and the 2004 Red Sox (BOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!)
Three title teams were shut out just 2 times, the 1937 and 1938 Yanks (which is one of the reasons why I consider the 1936-1939 4 year dynasty teams to be the greatest mini-dynasty, and therefore, the greatest team(s) of all time), and the 1949 Yankees.
There were three title teams that were shut out just once, the Murderers' Row Yankees of 1927, and the 1939 Yankees (the 4th of the four great teams that all won the Series), and a surprise: the 1993 Jays team that won its 2nd title in a row.
There are just two teams that won a title without suffering a shutout: The 2020 Dodgers, who are an extreme outlier because they played just 60 games that season. They did play almost .800 ball in those 60 games and MIGHT have gotten through the season without being shutout. But they played only about 40% of a season, and I think it's fair to exclude them from this discussion. The only full season team that won a title without taking a shutout against them were the 1932 Yankees, right in the middle of the longest stretch of consecutive games without being shut out, two full seasons from August 3, 2031, through August 2nd, 2033, 308 games in all. In addition, that's the only team in baseball history to score 1000 runs a season for three straight seasons.
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Now, we turned to the other end of things; what piqued my curiosity and sent me looking through the records.
The following three teams won a title while being shut out 14 times: The 1913 A's, the 1945 Tigers, and the Miracle Mets of 1969 (among the reasons their title is called a Miracle, I suppose).
The following two teams won a title while being shut out 15 times: The 1908 Cubs, and another surprise, the 2014 Giants team that won its third title in five years. They played 18 games in that postseason, and got shut out just once.
And finally, there are just two teams that won it all despite getting shut out 16 times, the record for the most shutouts taken by a title-winner: The 1906 "Hitless Wonders" White Sox (who batted .230 and slugged just .286 for the season, hence the name "Hitless Wonders"), and another modern-era surprise, the 2010 Giants that won the first of those three titles. Despite playing 16 postseason games in their three playoff series, they didn't suffer a single shutout after the regular season was over.
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So my instincts were correct: no title-winning team has ever won it all with more than 16 shutouts against them, not in the Ty Cobb era, not in the Bob Gibson era, and not in the contemporary era. And no Series winner has gotten within 10 games of suffering the 28 shutouts the Yanks are currently on pace to take.
It's early, and extrapolating from trends this early is an extremely dubious proposition, but I thought you'd like to know: right now, things don't look great for breaking the 15-year title drought.
"Yanks lose 2-0, the 4th time they've been shutout in 23 games, on pace to get shut out 28 times this season. I find it hard to believe that any team that has won a title has ever been shut out that many times, even in the dead ball days before 1920, or the other dead ball era of the 1960s This is now a serious problem. Judge, Torres and Volpe's slumps hurting them badly now."
Those of you who know me from my long years at the YES Message Boards know I don't like to leave implied questions like that hanging if there's a way to research it, and after a quick tour down the Playoff Index at Baseball Reference, I've found the definitive answer to that "question".
First, a few odds and ends: I didn't do an exact average, but the average number of shutouts thrown against World Series winning teams appears to be 6 to 8, and the large majority of the title winners were shut out between 5-10 times. The average went up a little in the dead ball eras from 1905-1919 and again from 1963-1974.
At the low end, there were three title teams that were shut out 3 times: the 1950 and 1977 Yankees and the 2004 Red Sox (BOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!)
Three title teams were shut out just 2 times, the 1937 and 1938 Yanks (which is one of the reasons why I consider the 1936-1939 4 year dynasty teams to be the greatest mini-dynasty, and therefore, the greatest team(s) of all time), and the 1949 Yankees.
There were three title teams that were shut out just once, the Murderers' Row Yankees of 1927, and the 1939 Yankees (the 4th of the four great teams that all won the Series), and a surprise: the 1993 Jays team that won its 2nd title in a row.
There are just two teams that won a title without suffering a shutout: The 2020 Dodgers, who are an extreme outlier because they played just 60 games that season. They did play almost .800 ball in those 60 games and MIGHT have gotten through the season without being shutout. But they played only about 40% of a season, and I think it's fair to exclude them from this discussion. The only full season team that won a title without taking a shutout against them were the 1932 Yankees, right in the middle of the longest stretch of consecutive games without being shut out, two full seasons from August 3, 2031, through August 2nd, 2033, 308 games in all. In addition, that's the only team in baseball history to score 1000 runs a season for three straight seasons.
=====================
Now, we turned to the other end of things; what piqued my curiosity and sent me looking through the records.
The following three teams won a title while being shut out 14 times: The 1913 A's, the 1945 Tigers, and the Miracle Mets of 1969 (among the reasons their title is called a Miracle, I suppose).
The following two teams won a title while being shut out 15 times: The 1908 Cubs, and another surprise, the 2014 Giants team that won its third title in five years. They played 18 games in that postseason, and got shut out just once.
And finally, there are just two teams that won it all despite getting shut out 16 times, the record for the most shutouts taken by a title-winner: The 1906 "Hitless Wonders" White Sox (who batted .230 and slugged just .286 for the season, hence the name "Hitless Wonders"), and another modern-era surprise, the 2010 Giants that won the first of those three titles. Despite playing 16 postseason games in their three playoff series, they didn't suffer a single shutout after the regular season was over.
=======================
So my instincts were correct: no title-winning team has ever won it all with more than 16 shutouts against them, not in the Ty Cobb era, not in the Bob Gibson era, and not in the contemporary era. And no Series winner has gotten within 10 games of suffering the 28 shutouts the Yanks are currently on pace to take.
It's early, and extrapolating from trends this early is an extremely dubious proposition, but I thought you'd like to know: right now, things don't look great for breaking the 15-year title drought.
