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Post by qwik3457bb on May 30, 2024 13:46:03 GMT -5
"6.01 (a): It is interference by a batter or a runner when... (10) He fails to avoid a fielder who is attempting to field a batted ball, or intentionally interferes with a thrown ball, provided that if two or more fielders attempt to field a batted ball, and the runner comes in contact with one or more of them, the umpire shall determine which fielder is entitled to the benefit of this rule, and shall not declare the runner out for coming in contact with a fielder other than the one the umpire determines to be entitled to field such a ball. The umpire shall call the runner out in accordance with Rule 5.09(b)(3)." What does 5.09 (b) (3)say? "5.09 (b) Any runner is out when... (3) He intentionally interferes with a thrown ball; or hinders a fielder attempting to make a play on a batted ball."And then the 5.09 (b)(3) refers back to 6.01 (a)(10). (Underline emphasis mine) It sucks because it was just unlucky, but I think the call was correct, according to the rules. What I find interesting about this is that the Umpire said the only time the baserunner is protected is if he is standing on the bag. I do not see that specifically stipulated in the rule. Perhaps it is covered somewhere else but in that situation MLB said the Umpires had discretion to rule differently. I'm having a hard time understanding the difference of standing on the bag and being 1 foot off it trying to get back to avoid being tagged out. If that was indeed the right call and doesn't permit the Umpire to have discretion then it is a bad rule. It's in another section of the rule. I'll try to find it and post it. Found it: It's a comment within the official rulebook under section 6.01. It says: " If, however, the runner has contact with a legally occupied base when he hinders the fielder, he shall not be called out unless, in the umpire’s judgment, such hindrance, whether it occurs on fair or foul territory, is intentional. If the umpire declares the hindrance intentional, the following penalty shall apply: With less than two out, the umpire shall declare both the runner and batter out." What I interpret that to mean is that if Soto is just standing on 2nd, not doing anything, and Neto bumps him going for the ball, or they collide and the ball drops, it's not interference, but that if Soto, for example, shoves Neto with his arms or a "hip check" while maintain contact with 2nd, it is interference, and he is out. The difference between the two is the in the first case, Soto is standing on a base that's rightfully his, making no attempt to hinder or interfere with Neto's attempt to catch the ball, but in the other he's on the move and attempting to get back safely to his legal base, and if he hinders the catch in anyway, even if it's just by taking one step back to the bag, it's interference, even if unintentional.
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Post by Max on May 30, 2024 13:46:56 GMT -5
Like night follows day. Two on with no outs. Holmes is snake bitten Cardiac Clay. But in the end he got the save. Whew!
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Post by 1955nyyfan on May 30, 2024 13:59:47 GMT -5
What I find interesting about this is that the Umpire said the only time the baserunner is protected is if he is standing on the bag. I do not see that specifically stipulated in the rule. Perhaps it is covered somewhere else but in that situation MLB said the Umpires had discretion to rule differently. I'm having a hard time understanding the difference of standing on the bag and being 1 foot off it trying to get back to avoid being tagged out. If that was indeed the right call and doesn't permit the Umpire to have discretion then it is a bad rule. It's in another section of the rule. I'll try to find it and post it. No need for me, at this point it's water under the bridge. Thanks
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Post by azbob643 on May 30, 2024 14:03:24 GMT -5
I've always liked Kay, but he seems to be developing a case of Sterlingitis, starting sometime last year. I think sometimes he doesn't watch the OFers when a flyball is hit, because sometimes he makes it sound like the ball was hit further than it actually was. There were a few balls that looked like they were going out off the bat, and then died. I think the thing many announcers dread is calling a home run that doesn't get out, so he's become a little more cautious. But he's also missed player changes during the games. That said, it's not as easy as some may think.
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Post by qwik3457bb on May 30, 2024 14:06:22 GMT -5
It's in another section of the rule. I'll try to find it and post it. No need for me, at this point it's water under the bridge. Thanks Too late, I was in the process of posting it while you posted this, so it's up there in the same reply. You don't have to bother reading it, if you don't want to. Others might, and that's their business.
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Post by 1955nyyfan on May 30, 2024 14:10:27 GMT -5
No need for me, at this point it's water under the bridge. Thanks Too late, I was in the process of posting it while you posted this, so it's up there in the same reply. You don't have to bother reading it, if you don't want to. Others might, and that's their business. I'll read it since you went to the trouble. My reply wasn't mean't to be snarky, hope you didn't take it that way, was just trying to save you some work.
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Post by qwik3457bb on May 30, 2024 14:21:04 GMT -5
Ironically, the rule is in place to protect the runner(s), but it can put baserunners in an awkward position, as it did with Soto. IMO, the rule should be modified to read that once the IF Fly is called the hitter is out and the play is dead. As it is now, the runner(s) can still advance either by tagging if the ball is caught or simply running without tagging if the ball is not caught. Had Neto caught the ball with Soto off the bag all he would've had to do was tag Soto* for the DP. Soto had to get back to the bag the only way he did, which was not intentional interference. I also don't believe anything was intentional on Neto's part. He was focused on the ball...don't think he even knew Soto was behind him. *Actually, the more I think about it, wouldn't Soto have been doubled off by Neto simply stepping on the bag if Soto hadn't gotten back to the bag? (Bold mine) They could do this but probably won't, not until there's a major collision and someone gets hurt. It's similar to icing in hockey. From Wikipedia: " The National Hockey League (NHL) introduced the icing rule in September 1937 to eliminate a common delaying tactic used by teams to protect a winning margin. A November 18, 1931 game between the New York Americans and Boston Bruins is cited as one extreme example that led to the ban on the practice. The Americans, protecting a 3–2 lead over the Bruins at Boston Garden, iced the puck over 50 times. The crowd became incensed and threw debris onto the ice, causing a delay while the teams were sent to their dressing rooms. When the teams met again that December 3 in New York, the Bruins iced the puck 87 times in a scoreless draw." The rule allowing teams to ice the puck when defending a power play against was added later on. Same thing for if the goalie plays the puck first, or if the defending player has the opportunity to play the puck before it crosses the goal line, or if its "on net", or if the icing happens directly off a faceoff draw (very very rare). The NHL didn't adopt the so-called "hybrid" rule for icing until a series of serious injuries to players after collisions between players trying to get/avoid an icing call convinced the league they should add the "hybrid" rule to prevent those collisions. Same thing here, but this play is far too rare in baseball. I doubt I'll see the rule changed in my remaining lifetime. Which is a lot shorter than it used to be.
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Post by qwik3457bb on May 30, 2024 14:22:03 GMT -5
Too late, I was in the process of posting it while you posted this, so it's up there in the same reply. You don't have to bother reading it, if you don't want to. Others might, and that's their business. I'll read it since you went to the trouble. My reply wasn't mean't to be snarky, hope you didn't take it that way, was just trying to save you some work. Don't worry; I didn't read it that way. You know how thorough (annoying) I can be when I'm trying to make my points clear to other readers.
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Post by azbob643 on May 30, 2024 14:25:57 GMT -5
I doubt I'll see the rule changed in my remaining lifetime. Which is a lot shorter than it used to be. I don't see any reason it can't easily be modified. It didn't take much to ban the shift, enlarge the bases, install a pitch clock, and limit the number of pickoff attempts...and those were pretty radical changes. I doubt anyone would even notice if the IF Fly rule was modified as has been suggested.
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Post by rizzuto on May 30, 2024 14:43:47 GMT -5
I doubt I'll see the rule changed in my remaining lifetime. Which is a lot shorter than it used to be. I don't see any reason it can't easily be modified. It didn't take much to ban the shift, enlarge the bases, install a pitch clock, and limit the number of pickoff attempts...and those were pretty radical changes. I doubt anyone would even notice if the IF Fly rule was modified as has been suggested. The infield fly rule was modified in 2013, following a play during the 2012 season: bleacherreport.com/articles/1536094-mlb-modifies-infield-fly-rule-in-wake-of-confusing-play-during-2012-season
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Post by azbob643 on May 30, 2024 14:52:26 GMT -5
Not sure which emoji to use, but honestly, I had to read that scenario a few times. Bottom line...the rule has been and can be easily changed.
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Post by kaybli on May 30, 2024 15:06:04 GMT -5
I went to David Chang's Momofuku Ko restaurant before it closed in NYC. One of the best meals I've ever eaten. I had 6 excellent Chinese restaurants that I used to eat at that are no longer in business.
I mentioned weeks ago Sun Luck (Elmhurst, Queens). There was also...
Lum's (Flushing, Queens).
Lucy's Chung's (Chinatown, Manhattan).
King Yum (Fresh Meadows, Queens).
Bill Hong's (East 56th st. Manhattan).
Dragon Seed (Jackson Heights, Queens).
Bummer! But just reading those restaurants' names did it. I'm ordering Chinese on Uber Eats today!
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Post by chiyankee on May 30, 2024 15:21:47 GMT -5
Not sure which emoji to use, but honestly, I had to read that scenario a few times. Bottom line...the rule has been and can be easily changed. They could call it the common sense modification. Seriously, what would Soto gain by interfering with the fielder on a play like this? The batter was already out, the runners were already back or almost back on their base and the fielder catching the ball had a teammate standing right next him to back him up if he did indeed drop the ball. The runner's weren't going to advance. The whole play just reeked and no common sense was used at all when the umpire called it a double play.
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Post by JEGnj on May 30, 2024 15:59:21 GMT -5
We won the game and need to get the series win tonight.
One concern is Big G is about to fall back into the .220s again.
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Post by inger on May 30, 2024 16:18:45 GMT -5
Pray for another hot streak. He runs hot and cold…but not on demand…
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