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Post by hitman23 on Nov 1, 2024 9:29:31 GMT -5
Go ahead, bring on the George haters. But there's way too much complacency in the organization right now. Hal runs the team like a business. George ran the team like a fan. Yeah, there were a lot of knee-jerk and irrational decisions, but he ultimately delivered 6 WS titles and one dynasty. Hal seems content with being good to very good so long as the bottom line is doing well. Does he want to win? I'm sure, so long as fits within his business plan. I don't think he absolutely hates and detests losing, though.
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Post by chiyankee on Nov 1, 2024 9:34:33 GMT -5
George had great people working for him, especially in the front office. The Yankees are not as string in that area right now.
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Post by hitman23 on Nov 1, 2024 9:36:52 GMT -5
George had great people working for him, especially in the front office. The Yankees are not as string in that area right now. Definitely a factor as well. Things came together magically in the late 90s. Obviously can't expect to have a perpetual dynasty. I get Hal isn't his dad. Not as bombastic, obviously. But, ultimately, George's strong aversion to losing permeated down to everyone on the club. |
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Post by donniebaseball23 on Nov 1, 2024 9:51:50 GMT -5
George had great people working for him, especially in the front office. The Yankees are not as string in that area right now. We need a modern-day Stick Michael. |
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Post by JEGnj on Nov 1, 2024 10:16:41 GMT -5
Watson and Stick built the Dynasty and Winning Yankees. Cashman rode the coattails and slowly destroyed it. Cashman success has been throwing money to remain a good team but not winning it all.
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Post by Max on Nov 1, 2024 14:29:30 GMT -5
In my opinions... I don't hate George. But, at times George treated people like crap and made me feel embarrassed to be a Yankee fan. The back and forth with Billy was beyond ridiculous. Firing Bucky Dent after a series in Boston of all places. Firing Yogi a month into a season. So many managerial changes, and it worked only once if even that, with Lemon. Since they were the defending Champs there was a good chance that they still win in 1978.
Not sure what a good loser is. But there is such a thing as showing class even when things don't go as planned. The alternative is being a sore loser, which can make someone look like a classless crybaby.
George gets credit for putting money back into the team. Hal spends like George but without all the unneeded drama. Hal has to deal with a tough Luxury Tax, George didn't. The Luxury Tax wasn't as tough when it first started, but even back then it stopped George from signing Beltran.
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Post by Max on Nov 1, 2024 14:34:56 GMT -5
Watson and Stick built the Dynasty and Winning Yankees. Cashman rode the coattails and slowly destroyed it. Cashman success has been throwing money to remain a good team but not winning it all. Stick, Watson and Buck built those teams. Cashman added players to some of those dynasty teams. Just 1 example would be David Justice. I'm not sure if the Yankees get past the Mariners without him. How did he destroy the Yankees? What about the championship in 2009? |
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Post by Cult of Ken Clay on Nov 1, 2024 14:56:17 GMT -5
Hal is an absentee owner. He's in Florida most of the time, not the owner's box like dear old dad. He can't fire Cashman because he has no idea who a good successor would be.
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Post by pippsheadache on Nov 1, 2024 15:11:15 GMT -5
In my opinions... I don't hate George. But, at times George treated people like crap and made me feel embarrassed to be a Yankee fan. The back and forth with Billy was beyond ridiculous. Firing Bucky Dent after a series in Boston of all places. Firing Yogi a month into a season. So many managerial changes, and it worked only once if even that, with Lemon. Since they were the defending Champs there was a good chance that they still win in 1978. Not sure what a good loser is. But there is such a thing as showing class even when things don't go as planned. The alternative is being a sore loser, which can make someone look like a classless crybaby. George gets credit for putting money back into the team. Hal spends like George but without all the unneeded drama. Hal has to deal with a tough Luxury Tax, George didn't. The Luxury Tax wasn't as tough when it first started, but even back then it stopped George from signing Beltran. I agree that not just George, but Billy too were often embarrassments. My attitude toward both has softened somewhat over the years in part after reading good biographies on both of them and in part because the heat of the moment has passed. George could be monstrous, no question and no excuses, but he was capable of generosity too. And as a fan his unrelenting hunger for winning reflected that of the fan base. While Hal does indeed spend a lot as every Yankee owner since Colonel Ruppert has done, he isn't in the old man's universe. The Yankees payroll for 2005, which is about the end of when George was cognitively capable, the Yankees payroll was $206 million. Boston had the second highest at $121 million, or 59 percent of the Yankees. The Mets were third at $105 million, a little over half of what the Yanks were doling out. For 2024, the Mets led with a payroll of $311 million. To have the equivalent edge that they had in 2005, the Yankees would have to have a payroll of $527 million. |
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Post by chiyankee on Nov 1, 2024 15:13:58 GMT -5
Hal is an absentee owner. He's in Florida most of the time, not the owner's box like dear old dad. He can't fire Cashman because he has no idea who a good successor would be. Hal would have to lean heavily on front office guys like Omar Minaya to find a new GM. It could be done but won't be. |
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Post by JEGnj on Nov 1, 2024 15:19:16 GMT -5
Watson and Stick built the Dynasty and Winning Yankees. Cashman rode the coattails and slowly destroyed it. Cashman success has been throwing money to remain a good team but not winning it all. Stick, Watson and Buck built those teams. Cashman added players to some of those dynasty teams. Just 1 example would be David Justice. I'm not sure if the Yankees get past the Mariners without him. How did he destroy the Yankees? What about the championship in 2009? How can I forget Buck? He was also a big reason yes. As for 2009 Core 4 and A-Rod and CC. It's not like Cashman drafted and developed A-Rod and CC. He was told to get the best players in the game. Sort've like Soto. It was not the brilliance of Cashman that brought Soto to NY. Everyone knew if you offered enough he was getting traded here. Now KEEP HIM. |
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Post by chiyankee on Nov 1, 2024 15:20:56 GMT -5
Stick, Watson and Buck built those teams. Cashman added players to some of those dynasty teams. Just 1 example would be David Justice. I'm not sure if the Yankees get past the Mariners without him. How did he destroy the Yankees? What about the championship in 2009? How can I forget Buck? He was also a big reason yes. As for 2009 Core 4 and A-Rod and CC. It's not like Cashman drafted and developed A-Rod and CC. He was told to get the best players in the game. Sort've like Soto. It was not the brilliance of Cashman that brought Soto to NY. Everyone knew if you offered enough he was getting traded here. Now KEEP HIM. Most of Cashman best moves consisting of spending tons of cash. |
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Post by pippsheadache on Nov 1, 2024 16:44:49 GMT -5
Stick, Watson and Buck built those teams. Cashman added players to some of those dynasty teams. Just 1 example would be David Justice. I'm not sure if the Yankees get past the Mariners without him. How did he destroy the Yankees? What about the championship in 2009? How can I forget Buck? He was also a big reason yes. As for 2009 Core 4 and A-Rod and CC. It's not like Cashman drafted and developed A-Rod and CC. He was told to get the best players in the game. Sort've like Soto. It was not the brilliance of Cashman that brought Soto to NY. Everyone knew if you offered enough he was getting traded here. Now KEEP HIM. Don't forget they signed Tex as a free agent in 2009 also. |
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Post by Max on Nov 1, 2024 18:14:28 GMT -5
Stick, Watson and Buck built those teams. Cashman added players to some of those dynasty teams. Just 1 example would be David Justice. I'm not sure if the Yankees get past the Mariners without him. How did he destroy the Yankees? What about the championship in 2009? How can I forget Buck? He was also a big reason yes. As for 2009 Core 4 and A-Rod and CC. It's not like Cashman drafted and developed A-Rod and CC. He was told to get the best players in the game. Sort've like Soto. It was not the brilliance of Cashman that brought Soto to NY. Everyone knew if you offered enough he was getting traded here. Now KEEP HIM. Teams usually have to offer enough to get a player like Soto. Cashman did so without giving up his top 2 OF prospects.
Besides being told to get the best players and doing so are two different things. Cashman still added to those dynasty teams. As for the 2009 world series championship team..Cashman drafted Gardner, signed Melky as an armature free agent, brought Pettitte back, traded for Swisher, signed Matsui who was the world series MVP.
Also....How do you know what Cashman was being told?
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Post by ypaterson on Nov 1, 2024 18:28:27 GMT -5
How can I forget Buck? He was also a big reason yes. As for 2009 Core 4 and A-Rod and CC. It's not like Cashman drafted and developed A-Rod and CC. He was told to get the best players in the game. Sort've like Soto. It was not the brilliance of Cashman that brought Soto to NY. Everyone knew if you offered enough he was getting traded here. Now KEEP HIM. Most of Cashman best moves consisting of spending tons of cash. Fomr my persepctive Cashman does his best work when he is not spending Hal's money. From guys like Tauchmanm Didi and Urshela to Luke Weaver, Cashman found talent in the bargain bins. If I ran the Yankees I'd always having him shopping the closeout aisles. |
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