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Post by inger on Jul 16, 2018 1:53:38 GMT -5
Can't help but remember how the discussion back in 2007, when they were both 21 years old was over whether Phil Hughes or Homer Bailey would be the bigger star pitcher. The argument was never won, I suppose, but here is a bit of a tale of the tape up to date...
Hughes has pitched to a career mark of 88-79; 4.51. He's posted seasons of 18-8, 16-13, and 16-10 and he also had one very unusual season in which he fanned a career high 186 batters in 209 innings while walking only 16. Hughes has posted a +100 or better ERA 5 times in his career, though his career ERA + is only 93. His ERA today is 6.66 in combined efforts in Minnesota and San Diego, where he has toiled soley in relief after being awarded two starts and some relief work in Minnesota...
Bailey has pitched to a career mark of 67-70; 4.54. Bailey's best seasons were back to back postings of 13-10 and 11-12. Those were also his only seasons with a +100 or better ERA. His career ERA + is 89. He hasn't posted an ERA under 5.56 since 2014, and this season is logging in at 1-7; 6.68
While both pitchers have been nagged by injuries, Hughes has started 211 games vs. the 204 starts of Bailey, and while Bailey has never relieved, Hughes has an additional 74 games in relief on his resume. While both pitchers have allowed more than a hit per inning in their career, Bailey has allowed more bases on balls than Hughes, while Hughes has been a more frequent victim of the home run ball. I don't think many baseball fans would have predicted such modest success for either of these two highly regarded prospects at the start of their MLB careers...
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Post by kaybli on Jul 16, 2018 3:38:48 GMT -5
Both were big time busts. A lesson for everyone that big shot prospects very often times do no pan out as intended. I'll always remember Phil Hughes' second career start where he almost threw a no hitter and also injured his hamstring. And I'll remember not wanting to trade him for Johan Santana in 2007 hence this emoji:
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Post by kaybli on Jul 16, 2018 4:05:59 GMT -5
Better battles you could have picked:
The Battle of Ernie vs. Bert The Battle of the Romans vs. the Carthaginians The Battle of Peanut Butter vs. Jelly The Battle of My Pants vs. My Waistline The Battle of Steve Irwin vs. Stingray
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Post by chiyankee on Jul 16, 2018 9:26:30 GMT -5
Both were big time busts. A lesson for everyone that big shot prospects very often times do no pan out as intended. I'll always remember Phil Hughes' second career start where he almost threw a no hitter and also injured his hamstring. And I'll remember not wanting to trade him for Johan Santana in 2007 hence this emoji:
I'll never forget that game. It was in Texas and Hughes looked like a future Ace for sure. Somethings just don't work out. |
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Post by inger on Jul 16, 2018 9:29:06 GMT -5
Better battles you could have picked:
The Battle of Ernie vs. Bert The Battle of the Romans vs. the Carthaginians The Battle of Peanut Butter vs. Jelly The Battle of My Pants vs. My Waistline The Battle of Steve Irwin vs. Stingray
All of those are beneath the dignity of Ruthian Legend with five silver stars... (uh-oh, am I going to be in trouble, or what? I may be the first Ruthian Legend ever to be decommissioned. Unless of course it's Rizzuto. After all, he can't even find the right thread to post in)...  |
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Post by kaybli on Jul 16, 2018 9:38:57 GMT -5
Better battles you could have picked:
The Battle of Ernie vs. Bert The Battle of the Romans vs. the Carthaginians The Battle of Peanut Butter vs. Jelly The Battle of My Pants vs. My Waistline The Battle of Steve Irwin vs. Stingray
All of those are beneath the dignity of Ruthian Legend with five silver stars... (uh-oh, am I going to be in trouble, or what? I may be the first Ruthian Legend ever to be decommissioned. Unless of course it's Rizzuto. After all, he can't even find the right thread to post in)... [img class="smile" src="//storage.proboards.com/6828121/images/udcwFqPimnXDtjoTmoVL.gif" alt=" "] |
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Post by utahyank on Jul 16, 2018 9:43:07 GMT -5
I can't think of Phil Hughes without remembering his biggest fan here….Betsy...……
it was unusual, and pleasant, to have a woman poster, but the only subject she posted about was Phil.....his Mom?....I wondered...
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Post by inger on Jul 16, 2018 9:50:32 GMT -5
No, Betsy obviously had something going for Phil that was not very Mom-like...Might have been a "Baseball Annie", like Wade Boggs's Margo, if she had a chance to get close to the boy...
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Post by inger on Jul 16, 2018 9:59:49 GMT -5
Hmmm. I COULD do a Mickey Mantle, Jr. vs. Petey Rose, Jr. post...
Or, "Tommy, the weakling brother of Hank Aaron"...or...
"The McDaniel Brothers, Von and Linzy" (a study of what happens when one boy takes his vitamins and growing up and the other palms them and gives them to the family dog that grew to weigh 342 pounds)...
I also often wondered if Dizzy Dean used to give his brother Daffy "friendly" punches in the arm. "Nice game, kid" POW !!! (enough of that sh*t, punk...mom always liked you best)...
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Post by rizzuto on Jul 16, 2018 16:55:28 GMT -5
No, Betsy obviously had something going for Phil that was not very Mom-like...Might have been a "Baseball Annie", like Wade Boggs's Margo, if she had a chance to get close to the boy... Or, Mike Piazza's Raul.... |
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Post by inger on Jul 16, 2018 18:21:54 GMT -5
Raul, the Beard-Trimming Fool...
Oh wait, this isn't the thread with the Eagles songs in it, is it???
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Post by sierchio on Jul 16, 2018 19:17:17 GMT -5
I always thought the start in Texas was Hughes first
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Post by inger on Jul 16, 2018 19:25:44 GMT -5
It's been quite a while since I looked up the stats of Mickey Mantle, Jr.. I checked him out on MiLB Reference.Com. It seems odd that he decided to start his professional career at age 25, but I believe he played semi-pro baseball before that. In 1978 the younger Mick took a stab at playing for Alexandria in the Carolina League. Apparently that team did not have a MLB affliation, as none is listed for it. I have read before that like his dad, Mickey, Jr. was a switch-hitting CF in the semi-pro leagues. He was 6' tall and weighed 185. His batting line was .070/.117/.070 as he went 4 for 57 with all four hits being singles, and drove in two runs while scoring three and drawing 3 bases on balls. He fanned 26 times in his 60 PA...
I noted that there was also a Ray Mantle that played in the minors for the Yankees in 1954-1955. Since he went to Commerce High School, I suspect that may have been a nephew of Mantles. Ray accumulated a two year batting average of .231 with 5 HR.
Then there was a Roy Mantle as well, who played in the Yankee system batting .273 with 8 HR from 1954 to 1956. There is no information about his whereabouts prior to that, which makes me doubt that he was related in any way. There were a few other Mantles sprinkled into the record books as well, most of whom had little biographical information, but none of whom showed more than a scintilla of baseball acumen beyond the low minor leagues. Apparently, the name had no magic in it...
Being nosy like I am, I also discovered that Kevin J. Maris, which is the name of one of Roger's sons played in the St. Louis organization in 1982, hitting .111/.256/.111 on 8 for 72, all singles of course. He did manage to draw 14 BB while fanning 23 times...Looks like both of Roger's sons coached some college baseball into the 20-teens...
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Post by inger on Jul 16, 2018 19:29:06 GMT -5
I always thought the start in Texas was Hughes first Second start. He got hit for 4 runs and 7 hits in 4.1 in start #1 vs. Toronto, losing 6-0... |
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Post by inger on Jul 17, 2018 12:56:44 GMT -5
Edit note regarding Mickey Mantle, Jr.:
Forgot to mention that though I had read that the younger Mick was a switch hitter like dad, MiLB shows him as a right-handed batter. Perhaps by age 25 he had abandoned switch hitting? I also had read earlier that he played CF, bu the fielding register shows him only as "OF", not designating what field he played in his 17 appearances.
I was thinking about how sad it must be to be the namesake son of a great ball-player and to fall so short of the unfair expectations placed upon you...The pressure to perform must be burdensome...The requests for stories of the father may also become tiresome when you're striving to be the best you can personally be...
Being Keven Maris may have also been difficult, but I would think even a tougher burden to bear if he had been Roger Maris, Jr...But even Roger didn't evoke the emotional reaction that the Mick did...And if you are Mickey, Jr. are you Mick? You sure as hell can't be THE Mick...The Commerce Comet? Commerce Vomit? Then what do you do when you go back home? Unfortunately, in the Mantle family, there was only one thing to do. Drink. Even Merlyn had a severe drinking problem...Sad family story with all the deaths at young ages, trips to rehab...failures of the next generation to follow their father's success, etc...
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