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Post by pippsheadache on Mar 28, 2023 3:32:45 GMT -5
Seeing this picture reminded me of this Roger Maris discussion. Looks like a huge crowd on hand at the Stadium. Chi, you have some great historical baseball photos in your stash. I have never seen that one before. Thanks for posting it.
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Post by pippsheadache on Mar 28, 2023 4:05:02 GMT -5
Roger Maris was also victimized by unconscionable deception on the part of the Yankees' front office, which is why he was so bitter toward the organization for so many years. In 1965 Maris, sliding into home plate, sustained a hand injury which he believed was a dislocated finger. Maris played the game as hard as anybody who ever wore the pinstripes -- almost recklessly in some respects the way he went into second base to break up double plays or slid into catchers at the plate or dove into the stands to catch the ball. So when he said his hand was hurting and he couldn't grip the bat, you have to think he wasn't just looking for some time off. The Yanks had their medical staff take X-rays, but said they showed nothing was broken and that there was no reason Maris couldn't play. He tried to play through it, but it didn't improve. Finally after the 65 season a friend had him see a doctor with no connection to the Yankees, and this doctor saw immediately that Maris had a broken hamate. When Maris told Ralph Houk, who by then was back to being manager after firing Johnny Keane, Houk said he would level with him and that the front office knew he needed an operation. This understandably did not sit well with Maris, who proceeded to have an operation which did ease his pain but did not restore his power stroke. The Yankee brass had pretty well insinuated -- and the New York sports media dutifully repeated -- that Maris was just dogging it, and many of the fans bought into it. They really let him have it. After the 1966 season, Maris told GM Lee MacPhail that he was thinking about retiring. MacPhail assured him the Yanks wanted him back. Maris asked that if the team was going to trade him to any place other than Kansas City, which was near his home, to let him know so he could file his retirement papers. MacPhail said the Yanks had no such plans. Three weeks later he was traded to St. Louis for journeyman IFer Charlie Smith. Maris found out when he came home one afternoon and saw reporters and photographers waiting for him in front of his house. But the Cardinals were smart. They had new GM Stan Musial get in touch with him and they hit it off instantly. The Man told Roger that not only would he get a salary increase, but that there would be no pressure on him to hit HRs or do anything other than show up and do his best. Manager Red Schoendienst got into the act too, and later players like Orlando Cepeda reached out to him -- Cepeda got a bit of the Maris treatment in San Francisco for not being Willie Mays -- and eventually all the players from Gibson on down were won over by his team-oriented attitude. He played decently for the Cardinals and was an important part of two pennant-winning teams in 67 and 68 before retiring and getting his fondest wish -- a beer distributorship from owner August Busch that he ran with his brother Rudy. Their treatment of Roger Maris was one of the real low points of Yankee front office chicanery, with an indifferent ownership at CBS and dishonesty from Ralph Houk, Lee MacPhail and quack corporate team doctor Sidney Gaynor. Houk, who did so many good things, not just in baseball but as a genuine hero in World War II when he was awarded a Silver Star, did not have his finest moments as Yankee GM or in his second tenure as manager. He had many noble qualities, but at times he had some serious failings. Wow. Despicable treatment - I had no idea. Imagine the pain Maris was in to even hold a bat with a broken hamate, much less swing the bat and then make contact with a 90+ mph fastball. Anyone who has had a wrist injury knows that a sharp shooting pain makes it impossible to even lift a carton of milk. To play Major League Baseball? What sickening treatment of a good and decent man. Rizz, it was a low point for Yankee management. But it was years before the public knew about it --I sure did not until some articles and books began appearing years later. Maris was too much of a mensch to make an issue of it, and things worked out so well for him in St. Louis that he just let it go. But the players knew, and they had his back both in New York and St. Louis, where he was made to feel welcome after some initial suspicions that he might be a difficult guy. Dr. Sidney Gaynor, the Yanks chief medical guy, turned out to be a total tool of the front office. His basic attitude was that the players were whiners. When the Yankees could no longer deny that Maris had the broken hamate bone, Gaynor claimed that he had hoped that it would heal on its own and that's why he advised against an operation. I don't know if such a thing is even possible, but even if it is that doesn't excuse the team doctors for asserting that X-Rays showed no break when obviously there was one. Sorry to waste energy on something that happened almost 60 years ago and where all of the principals are long deceased, but Maris was an absolute straight-shooter -- and he could be brusque, no question -- whose career was made unnecessarily difficult by dishonest people in both the front office and the media. The business with Judge last year brought a lot of it back to the surface -- he handled it so perfectly with the Maris family after they in good faith had graciously gone through what we ultimately learned was the fraudulent McGwire/Sosa circus in 1998.
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Post by kaybli on Mar 28, 2023 5:33:19 GMT -5
Wow. Despicable treatment - I had no idea. Imagine the pain Maris was in to even hold a bat with a broken hamate, much less swing the bat and then make contact with a 90+ mph fastball. Anyone who has had a wrist injury knows that a sharp shooting pain makes it impossible to even lift a carton of milk. To play Major League Baseball? What sickening treatment of a good and decent man. Rizz, it was a low point for Yankee management. But it was years before the public knew about it --I sure did not until some articles and books began appearing years later. Maris was too much of a mensch to make an issue of it, and things worked out so well for him in St. Louis that he just let it go. But the players knew, and they had his back both in New York and St. Louis, where he was made to feel welcome after some initial suspicions that he might be a difficult guy. Dr. Sidney Gaynor, the Yanks chief medical guy, turned out to be a total tool of the front office. His basic attitude was that the players were whiners. When the Yankees could no longer deny that Maris had the broken hamate bone, Gaynor claimed that he had hoped that it would heal on its own and that's why he advised against an operation. I don't know if such a thing is even possible, but even if it is that doesn't excuse the team doctors for asserting that X-Rays showed no break when obviously there was one. Sorry to waste energy on something that happened almost 60 years ago and where all of the principals are long deceased, but Maris was an absolute straight-shooter -- and he could be brusque, no question -- whose career was made unnecessarily difficult by dishonest people in both the front office and the media. The business with Judge last year brought a lot of it back to the surface -- he handled it so perfectly with the Maris family after they in good faith had graciously gone through what we ultimately learned was the fraudulent McGwire/Sosa circus in 1998. Thanks for sharing that story on Maris pipps! I wasn’t even aware he was screwed over by the front office and medical team like that. Love that you’ve become a regular on this thread. Always look forward to reading your posts here alongside ingers. Keep up the great work!
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Post by pippsheadache on Mar 28, 2023 5:46:37 GMT -5
Rizz, it was a low point for Yankee management. But it was years before the public knew about it --I sure did not until some articles and books began appearing years later. Maris was too much of a mensch to make an issue of it, and things worked out so well for him in St. Louis that he just let it go. But the players knew, and they had his back both in New York and St. Louis, where he was made to feel welcome after some initial suspicions that he might be a difficult guy. Dr. Sidney Gaynor, the Yanks chief medical guy, turned out to be a total tool of the front office. His basic attitude was that the players were whiners. When the Yankees could no longer deny that Maris had the broken hamate bone, Gaynor claimed that he had hoped that it would heal on its own and that's why he advised against an operation. I don't know if such a thing is even possible, but even if it is that doesn't excuse the team doctors for asserting that X-Rays showed no break when obviously there was one. Sorry to waste energy on something that happened almost 60 years ago and where all of the principals are long deceased, but Maris was an absolute straight-shooter -- and he could be brusque, no question -- whose career was made unnecessarily difficult by dishonest people in both the front office and the media. The business with Judge last year brought a lot of it back to the surface -- he handled it so perfectly with the Maris family after they in good faith had graciously gone through what we ultimately learned was the fraudulent McGwire/Sosa circus in 1998. Thanks for sharing that story on Maris pipps! I wasn’t even aware he was screwed over by the front office and medical team like that. Love that you’ve become a regular on this thread. Always look forward to reading your posts here alongside ingers. Keep up the great work! Thank you Kaybli. I probably ramble too much about the distant past, but I suppose it's harmless enough. And it does kind of go with the territory in baseball. Always has, even when I was a kid. Even when my father was a kid. With the regular season about to start, I'll be able to pull my brain out of the past and focus more on the here and now. And I neglected to wish you a joyous Ramadan. Haven't heard any complaints so far. Better March than June!
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Post by kaybli on Mar 28, 2023 6:03:03 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing that story on Maris pipps! I wasn’t even aware he was screwed over by the front office and medical team like that. Love that you’ve become a regular on this thread. Always look forward to reading your posts here alongside ingers. Keep up the great work! Thank you Kaybli. I probably ramble too much about the distant past, but I suppose it's harmless enough. And it does kind of go with the territory in baseball. Always has, even when I was a kid. Even when my father was a kid. With the regular season about to start, I'll be able to pull my brain out of the past and focus more on the here and now. And I neglected to wish you a joyous Ramadan. Haven't heard any complaints so far. Better March than June! Thank you so much for the Ramadan well wishes! Definitely better in March but just missed avoiding daylight savings time. I haven’t missed a fast for Ramadan in 14 years. I’m like the Cal Ripken of the Ramadan game lol. Today I’m breaking my fast with ice cream! 😂
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Post by pippsheadache on Mar 28, 2023 6:20:58 GMT -5
Thank you Kaybli. I probably ramble too much about the distant past, but I suppose it's harmless enough. And it does kind of go with the territory in baseball. Always has, even when I was a kid. Even when my father was a kid. With the regular season about to start, I'll be able to pull my brain out of the past and focus more on the here and now. And I neglected to wish you a joyous Ramadan. Haven't heard any complaints so far. Better March than June! Thank you so much for the Ramadan well wishes! Definitely better in March but just missed avoiding daylight savings time. I haven’t missed a fast for Ramadan in 14 years. I’m like the Cal Ripken of the Ramadan game lol. Today I’m breaking my fast with ice cream! 😂 When we were living in the Middle East we always tried to get on people's schedules as early as possible during Ramadan if we were looking for cooperation. Of course in Kuwait that meant about 11 AM! Late afternoon appointments had a tendency to be a little edgier.
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Post by kaybli on Mar 28, 2023 6:24:49 GMT -5
Thank you so much for the Ramadan well wishes! Definitely better in March but just missed avoiding daylight savings time. I haven’t missed a fast for Ramadan in 14 years. I’m like the Cal Ripken of the Ramadan game lol. Today I’m breaking my fast with ice cream! 😂 When we were living in the Middle East we always tried to get on people's schedules as early as possible during Ramadan if we were looking for cooperation. Of course in Kuwait that meant about 11 AM! Late afternoon appointments had a tendency to be a little edgier. Lol yes I remember you telling me about living in Kuwait. You truly are a man of the world 🌎!
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Post by pippsheadache on Mar 28, 2023 6:48:40 GMT -5
When we were living in the Middle East we always tried to get on people's schedules as early as possible during Ramadan if we were looking for cooperation. Of course in Kuwait that meant about 11 AM! Late afternoon appointments had a tendency to be a little edgier. Lol yes I remember you telling me about living in Kuwait. You truly are a man of the world 🌎! Kuwait was like Denmark compared to Saudi Arabia! But both were great life experiences (and once was enough!) My favorite ME countries to visit are Egypt, Syria and Morocco (which is the easiest for Western tourists.) Never been to Iran, which I am sure would be very cool. The Iranians ran many of the businesses in Kuwait and Qatar and UAE because the locals were preoccupied with accumulating money. But they were all very nice to us.
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Post by kaybli on Mar 28, 2023 7:01:49 GMT -5
Lol yes I remember you telling me about living in Kuwait. You truly are a man of the world 🌎! Kuwait was like Denmark compared to Saudi Arabia! But both were great life experiences (and once was enough!) My favorite ME countries to visit are Egypt, Syria and Morocco (which is the easiest for Western tourists.) Never been to Iran, which I am sure would be very cool. The Iranians ran many of the businesses in Kuwait and Qatar and UAE because the locals were preoccupied with accumulating money. But they were all very nice to us. Yea they’ve only recently given women the right to drive in Saudi Arabia (major eye roll). And ofcourse Iran is run by an oppressive regime. The people in power in many Muslim countries give Muslims a bad name. Glad you were treated well at least. I’d love to visit the Middle East someday!
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Post by pippsheadache on Mar 28, 2023 7:28:02 GMT -5
Kuwait was like Denmark compared to Saudi Arabia! But both were great life experiences (and once was enough!) My favorite ME countries to visit are Egypt, Syria and Morocco (which is the easiest for Western tourists.) Never been to Iran, which I am sure would be very cool. The Iranians ran many of the businesses in Kuwait and Qatar and UAE because the locals were preoccupied with accumulating money. But they were all very nice to us. Yea they’ve only recently given women the right to drive in Saudi Arabia (major eye roll). And ofcourse Iran is run by an oppressive regime. The people in power in many Muslim countries give Muslims a bad name. Glad you were treated well at least. I’d love to visit the Middle East someday! You'll get there Kaybli. I imagine you will do your Hajj some day. Saudi Arabia is a different breed of cat for sure, but for a visit it is an amazing experience, even for a woman. My wife made the most of it, but we had it relatively easy being with the Embassy. But even at that the Mutawah didn't give a rip, they'd yell at her if they saw her with her head uncovered. LOL I rubbed it in. I haven't been there in nearly 30 years and it's a bit easier now. The Iranians are the most pro-Western people in the ME. It's just that they're not the ones running the country. If you could only go to one, I would choose Egypt in a heartbeat. Jaw-dropping sites to see. Like another planet in some ways. The people are a riot, they can be unbelievably rude and annoying but also extremely hospitable and generous. We just love them and always pull for them to do well. I was only referencing the Islamic countries, but of course Israel is a must for any Christian or Jew and I would think for many Muslims as well. Overwhelming in many ways. As a Muslim you would have no problem in large part because they would simply consider you just another American. In the same way that Jewish officials from the Embassy were also just lumped in as garden variety Americans in a place like Saudi Arabia. People who are spending money will always be accommodated anywhere in the world.
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Post by kaybli on Mar 28, 2023 7:43:44 GMT -5
Yea they’ve only recently given women the right to drive in Saudi Arabia (major eye roll). And ofcourse Iran is run by an oppressive regime. The people in power in many Muslim countries give Muslims a bad name. Glad you were treated well at least. I’d love to visit the Middle East someday! You'll get there Kaybli. I imagine you will do your Hajj some day. Saudi Arabia is a different breed of cat for sure, but for a visit it is an amazing experience, even for a woman. My wife made the most of it, but we had it relatively easy being with the Embassy. But even at that the Mutawah didn't give a rip, they'd yell at her if they saw her with her head uncovered. LOL I rubbed it in. I haven't been there in nearly 30 years and it's a bit easier now. The Iranians are the most pro-Western people in the ME. It's just that they're not the ones running the country. If you could only go to one, I would choose Egypt in a heartbeat. Jaw-dropping sites to see. Like another planet in some ways. The people are a riot, they can be unbelievably rude and annoying but also extremely hospitable and generous. We just love them and always pull for them to do well. I was only referencing the Islamic countries, but of course Israel is a must for any Christian or Jew and I would think for many Muslims as well. Overwhelming in many ways. As a Muslim you would have no problem in large part because they would simply consider you just another American. In the same way that Jewish officials from the Embassy were also just lumped in as garden variety Americans in a place like Saudi Arabia. People who are spending money will always be accommodated anywhere in the world. Yes planning on doing my Hajj when I’m older. I would love to see Egypt and Israel as well. When I go I’m going to hit you up for some travel tips!
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Post by inger on Mar 28, 2023 9:03:14 GMT -5
The first African American player to don a New York Yankees uniform, Elston Howard traveled a long and arduous road while working his way up the Yankee farm system. Although Howard first joined the Yankee organization in 1950, he had to overcome many obstacles, including a considerable amount of racial prejudice, before he finally found himself wearing pinstripes at the major-league level. Yet, through it all, Howard carried himself with the same class and dignity on which he built his reputation." - Robert W. Cohen in The 50 Greatest Players in Yankee History…
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Post by inger on Mar 28, 2023 9:04:59 GMT -5
In 1963, Elston Howard hit .287, a career high 28 home runs, drove in 85 runners (RBI), posted a .528 slugging average (3rd highest in the league / Top 25), winning the American League (AL) Most Valuable Player Award (the first black player in AL history to win an MVP) and a Gold Glove Award - the first New York Yankees' catcher to receive the honor...
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Post by inger on Mar 28, 2023 9:06:15 GMT -5
In 1955, on July 23rd, Elston Howard pinch hit for Irv Noren in the ninth inning and hit a game-tying home run. The previous batter, Bob Cerv, pinch hit for Tommy Byrne and had a home run - the duo are the first New York Yankees to hit back-to-back pinch hit home runs in the same game…
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Post by inger on Mar 28, 2023 9:10:52 GMT -5
Yogi Berra (#1), Johnny Bench (#2), Roy Campanella (#3), Mickey Cochrane (#4), Mike Piazza (#5), Carlton Fisk (#6), Bill Dickey (#7), Gary Carter (#8), Gabby Hartnett (#9), Ted Simmons (#10), Joe Torre (#11), Bill Freehan (#12), Ivan Rodriguez (#13), Thurman Munson (#14) and Elston Howard (#15) - the greatest catchers in baseball history as ranked by Bill James in The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, who wrote:
15. Elston Howard Howard reached the Yankees in 1955 and, although he played fairly well, was never a star until 1961. Everbody knows that Bill Dickey worked with the young Yogi Berra, teaching Berra to catch. But fewer people know that Dickey stayed with the Yankees for years as a coach, and also worked with Elston Howard when Stengel finally decided that Howard was going to be his next catcher.
In 1961, the first year post-Casey, Howard burst into the limelight wit a .348 season, 21 homers, and then had four genuinely outstanding seasons, 1961-64, winning an MVP Award with a 1963 seasons that, in all honesty, was not 1% better than the other three seasons. We have his Win Shares from 1961 through 1964 at 29, 20, 28, and 32. He faded quickly after that, due to injuries.
This is very much the same career pattern that Bill Dickey had. Dickey reached the Yankees in late 1928, but he, too, was never really outstanding until 1936, when he hit .362 with 23 homers. He, also, was then superb for four years, posting Win Share totals of 25, 32, 27, and 27. Then, like Howard, he had injuries and faded away.
Obviously Dickey was better than Howard, although not all that much better, in my opinion, and just a tiny bit better in his four big seasons. And, to the extent that Dickey was better, he was better mostly because the park - Yankee Stadium - favored Dickey, whereas it almost ruined Howard. In his career, Dickey hit more than two-thirds of his home runs in Yankee Stadium - one of the highest home-park home run percentages in history. Howard, on the other hand, has one of the lowest percentages of home runs at home, because Yankee Stadium at that time was a $20 taxi ride to left field. Dickey outhomered Howard 202 to 167, in careers of fairly comparable length, but that's all because of Yankee Stadium. In road games, Howard outhomered Dickey 113 to 67…
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