|
|
Post by anthonyd46 on Oct 20, 2019 23:13:16 GMT -5
I hate to elevate any player to HOF level at age 30 or so. So much can (and often does) happen to derail careers. Four times with 200 hits, a couple batting titles and leading his league steals a couple of times is certainly a great foundation for discussion at this point. His exuberance can make you hate him as an opponent, but you realize how much you’d live him as a team mate. He reminds me of a lot of the great players that I did hate as a youth, but discovered reverence and respect for as an adult. That’s where I place Altuve right now. He’s in a select group of players that I hold with reverence and respect. I’m a bit in awe of him... Just look at Andrew Jones his first few season stats are great but it was all downhill from there. |
|
|
|
Altuve
Oct 20, 2019 23:39:09 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by inger on Oct 20, 2019 23:39:09 GMT -5
I hate to elevate any player to HOF level at age 30 or so. So much can (and often does) happen to derail careers. Four times with 200 hits, a couple batting titles and leading his league steals a couple of times is certainly a great foundation for discussion at this point. His exuberance can make you hate him as an opponent, but you realize how much you’d live him as a team mate. He reminds me of a lot of the great players that I did hate as a youth, but discovered reverence and respect for as an adult. That’s where I place Altuve right now. He’s in a select group of players that I hold with reverence and respect. I’m a bit in awe of him... Just look at Andrew Jones his first few season stats are great but it was all downhill from there. That actually happens more often than not. There are rare players that have improved in their thirties, and have done so outside of the age of PEDS. We heard a lot this season after the Yankees acquired Edwin Encarnacion about how he has now homered 30+ times eight seasons in a row. Yet, the first season he achieved that feat he was 30 years old. Part of the reason he’s accomplished the fest has to do with a change in baseball culture that’s occurred. Just a few seasons prior to the PED scandal that changed the way the HR is viewed, few players were able to hit twenty HR eight years in a row, much less 30. Then, add in the change in the baseball for 2019, and one would wonder if he would have hit those 30+ this year without that boost. History is not being allowed to occur naturally anymore. It’s being artificially modified in so many different ways. Players who seem to have remarkable skill sets are being revealed as frauds. Those who aren’t revealed are viewed with suspicion because of what their counterparts have done. It’s going be interesting, but darkly so to see what happens in 2020, and how baseball reckons with the change or lack thereof in HR production. It seems that the proof is beginning to emerge that not only are high strikeout rates bad for the entertainment value of the sport, but the emphasis on power over contact may not be a reliable source of scoring vs. premium pitching. I doubt that there are any more than maybe 20% (wild guess, but not too wild) of HOF players that have a better track record to their career after 30 than up to that age. Many of the few players in history that do have better batting or pitching after age 30 are being ostracized out of the Hall of Fame for reasons that are proven, and sometimes only suspected. Now, we also learn that baseball itself can (again) change the characteristics of the baseball. They can blame ghe factories, and in fact have hinted at that, but the fact remains that nothing was done during the season. Do we not return or recall defective products in a normal economic market? Usually. But not in this case. We simply kept using them on baseball’s two highest levels. When the ball is altered, the statistics become unreliable. How do we know what 40 HR, or 30 HR, or even the now extremely common 20 HR means in the context of history?. Altuve hit 31 HR in a season where he missed a considerable amount of time this year... |
|
|
|
Post by anthonyd46 on Oct 21, 2019 2:18:57 GMT -5
One thing that's intersting is for such high powered offenses most of these games were low scoring. Even the ones that went over 5 were mostly late tack on runs or in game 6 the 2 walk ones.
7-0
3-2
4-1
8-3
4-1
6-4
Astros 22 Yankees 21
That is roughly 3.5 runs per game for both teams for two teams that scored over 900 in the regular season and almost 6 runs a game.
You have to think for the fan that was looking for offense this series was mostly a letdown as there were so many innings neither team scored.
|
|
|
|
Altuve
Oct 21, 2019 6:37:54 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by greatfatness on Oct 21, 2019 6:37:54 GMT -5
One thing that's intersting is for such high powered offenses most of these games were low scoring. Even the ones that went over 5 were mostly late tack on runs or in game 6 the 2 walk ones. 7-0 3-2 4-1 8-3 4-1 6-4 Astros 22 Yankees 21 That is roughly 3.5 runs per game for both teams for two teams that scored over 900 in the regular season and almost 6 runs a game. You have to think for the fan that was looking for offense this series was mostly a letdown as there were so many innings neither team scored. I think some of that is pitching but some of it has to be explained by guys handling pressure differently. These games are different than mid June games and some guys like Altuve step up and some shrink in the spotlight. Hard to make too much of it for any one player in a small sample but as a general principle that has to be true. |
|
|
|
Altuve
Oct 21, 2019 6:41:45 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by greatfatness on Oct 21, 2019 6:41:45 GMT -5
I hate to elevate any player to HOF level at age 30 or so. So much can (and often does) happen to derail careers. Four times with 200 hits, a couple batting titles and leading his league steals a couple of times is certainly a great foundation for discussion at this point. His exuberance can make you hate him as an opponent, but you realize how much you’d live him as a team mate. He reminds me of a lot of the great players that I did hate as a youth, but discovered reverence and respect for as an adult. That’s where I place Altuve right now. He’s in a select group of players that I hold with reverence and respect. I’m a bit in awe of him... Just to be clear, my point wasn’t that Altuve was already someone who should be in the HOF. My point was that at this point in his career, if he had played in NY, fans and media would have already concluded that he should be. And then when I considered who he compares to well at similar stages of their careers I think Jeter holds up. Recall that at the time it was Jeter, Rodriguez and Nomar. Of those three only Jeter will make the HOF. Rodriguez was the most physically talented but had to cheat multiple ways to keep from falling apart and Nomar disintegrated early and still may have cheated as well if you believe some of the stories. Altuve will need to do it another 5+ years and then compile stats as he declines as Jeter did but he’s a good bet to do so. |
|
|
|
Altuve
Oct 21, 2019 11:23:19 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by inger on Oct 21, 2019 11:23:19 GMT -5
I hate to elevate any player to HOF level at age 30 or so. So much can (and often does) happen to derail careers. Four times with 200 hits, a couple batting titles and leading his league steals a couple of times is certainly a great foundation for discussion at this point. His exuberance can make you hate him as an opponent, but you realize how much you’d live him as a team mate. He reminds me of a lot of the great players that I did hate as a youth, but discovered reverence and respect for as an adult. That’s where I place Altuve right now. He’s in a select group of players that I hold with reverence and respect. I’m a bit in awe of him... Just to be clear, my point wasn’t that Altuve was already someone who should be in the HOF. My point was that at this point in his career, if he had played in NY, fans and media would have already concluded that he should be. And then when I considered who he compares to well at similar stages of their careers I think Jeter holds up. Recall that at the time it was Jeter, Rodriguez and Nomar. Of those three only Jeter will make the HOF. Rodriguez was the most physically talented but had to cheat multiple ways to keep from falling apart and Nomar disintegrated early and still may have cheated as well if you believe some of the stories. Altuve will need to do it another 5+ years and then compile stats as he declines as Jeter did but he’s a good bet to do so. I know you well enough to know that was what you meant. I was adding my support along with my personal context of how I view players at the stage of their careers Altuve has reached. As I said, the foundation is there... I do sort of despise the “requirement” of compilation, but whether I like it or not it surely exists... |
|
