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Post by inger on Jan 24, 2018 23:23:42 GMT -5
I don't think that Moose nor Edgar will have any problem getting in. It's just a matter of time, and I feel quite confident that Edgar's turn will come next year. I do hope that since the voters are making such a strong statement vs. PED users that all of the players that did get in were clean. If not, then a double standard exists, even if that standard is that those that have been exposed will not be elected, vs. those that used but were not exposed. What a bummer that we have to have these suspicions at all. If a player had certain numbers that improved during a certain subset of seasons, and especially if that player happened to be past what was normally considered to be a player's prime years then a cloud of suspicion is going to hang over that player. In some cases, maybe that's deserved. In others perhaps not. We don't really know, and will never know how many players indulged, or for how long...Bummer...With that suspicion hanging so heavy over the sport, I finally feel like maybe no one should decide "punishment" on certain players. I don't like it to be honest, but I don't have to like it for it to be the over all correct thing to do. In fact, in reality I guess more and more I'm thinking that I no longer give a crap...
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Post by anthonyd46 on Jan 25, 2018 13:25:30 GMT -5
I fail to believe not one player in the hof never took anything when for years a lot of this stuff wasn’t tested etc. I mean we have over 100 years of baseball history In the hof it’s just hard to believe every single person in there is clean.
Anyway with 4 big names getting in, it should be interesting next year as mo is probably the only sure fire lock.
I think Roy Halladay even though he might not have the numbers you can definitely say he was an elite pitcher for a good portion of his career. Not sure if he gets in the first ballot but he should get a large number of votes regardless.
Then you have Pettitte, Oswalt, Todd Helton and a few others but I don’t think they will be getting enough votes in the first try to block some of the 50% and above players from this year raising their numbers.
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Post by chiyankee on Jan 25, 2018 19:32:54 GMT -5
I fail to believe not one player in the hof never took anything when for years a lot of this stuff wasn’t tested etc. I mean we have over 100 years of baseball history In the hof it’s just hard to believe every single person in there is clean. I'd be shocked if there isn't more than one PED user already in the HOF. |
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Post by sierchio on Jan 26, 2018 17:18:54 GMT -5
Hank Aaron is in the HOF and he's a PED user...
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Post by inger on Jan 26, 2018 20:10:37 GMT -5
Hank Aaron is in the HOF and he's a PED user... To the best of my knowledge, you are positing a hypothesis that has never even been elevated to the level of "theory". We do know about Tom House, who confessed to have been using PEDs of some sort when he was Aaron's team mate. We also know that "greenies" were rampant in the game during that era. Jim Bouton told us that he felt the greenies were over-rated, that they made you feel great, like you could do anything, and the next thing you know you think you can sneak a fastball by somebody and it's leaving the ballpark...that kind of over-rated. I know that people can look back at Aaron's numbers and see that an aging Aaron had a pretty remarkable resurgence in his HR numbers as he neared Ruth's record...in particular when the then 37- year old set his career high in HR with 47 in 1971, and perhaps more so when he hit 40 in just 120 games in 1973 at the age of 39 to get to 713 at the end of the season. I suppose maybe I'm presenting yet another hypothesis, unless I can find some documentation, but I was of the impression many years ago that the Atlanta baseball field was modified to shorter distances in Aaron's later years in order to "assist" Henry in breaking the record, and that indeed that also contributed to the outlier season of Davey Johnson in 1973 when he hit 43 HR (the next highest total of his career was 18). So, I suppose the Braves helped Aaron cheat in a way, though they didn't break any rules in doing so (if the commissioner granted permission and the fences were not moved in a clandestine plot). And I suppose that taking greenies, effective or not is still cheating. I suppose that if you are trying to cheat, even if it doesn't work, you are still just as guilty. You can be arrested for an "attempted" robbery or murder, right? So why not for attempted cheating? Whitey scuffed baseballs, Ty Cobb sharpened his spikes in the dugout in between innings. Gaylord Perry either used KY Jelly or Vaseline or he faked using it to get into batters heads. Is fake cheating still cheating? Are pschologic ploys cheating? The line is somewhere...so I suppose since the entire history of the sport is rife with tales of stealing signs, etc. that it has been a sort of a part of the tradition of the sport almost since the inception... |
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Post by sierchio on Jan 27, 2018 10:35:23 GMT -5
You hit the nail right on the head!! Baseball is filled with players looking for advantages of getting ahead. Steroids weren't made illegal in baseball when a lot of players were taking them.. "Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron and countless others have admitted they used amphetamines during their careers. If they used today and were caught, they would be suspended under baseball's rules." www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/8769398/a-writer-gives-hall-fame-vote |
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Post by inger on Jan 27, 2018 22:34:41 GMT -5
So then we go back to the basics. Right. Wrong. If most of the participants of a very small segment of society have engaged in an unsavory practice, does that make it right???
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Post by sierchio on Jan 28, 2018 10:38:55 GMT -5
Makes it wrong to exclude them from the HOF when they're the greatest of all time like Bonds and Clemens..
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Post by inger on Jan 28, 2018 18:28:36 GMT -5
Makes it wrong to exclude them from the HOF when they're the greatest of all time like Bonds and Clemens.. Or maybe it makes it okay to not care so much about the Hall of Fame. It's only a game, after all. The Olympics have been marred, Baseball, NHL, NFL, NBA...It's all the same. Our music stars are inspired by cocaine, LSD, and all manner of booze. Maybe we shouldn't care so much about them either, but we do. So, really...is there anything wrong with "caring" about them? Nah. Maybe there is something wrong with caring enough about them to immortalize them after they've quit entertaining us, or maybe it's no different from restoring an old car because you remember that model from your childhood, or collecting antiques. I dunno. I just find myself a bit pissed at myself for even commenting on the subject because that reveals that in some contorted and perverted way I do care... |
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