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Post by kaybli on Apr 7, 2021 6:16:01 GMT -5
He could easily have been charged with 3-4 errors and has cost Bruce at least one. Right now the Yankee pitchers are already making extra pitchers and Luetge has a 13.50 ERA that should have been 4.50... I'm a Gleyber fan, but what you guys say is true. Some people (not me) used to complain about Jeter's play at SS, but he always had complete awareness of what was happening on the field. No way that play would have been close enough to review because Mountcastle would have been indisputably out. As it was, Gleyber's minuscule delay made it bang bang. And I don't blame the ump, that was a tough call, but I do blame the video guys for not getting it right. For a borderline major leaguer like Luetge, that play could hurt his chances of sticking. Otherwise it's three quick groundball outs. Of course the Yanks know this too. Torres so far has shown no sign of improvement at SS. It's frustrating. Its frustrating for sure. I don't know what the options are though. Wade at SS full time, Gleyber to 2nd, DJ to First? That doesn't sound too appetizing. And what happens when Luke comes back? I think we are stuck with Gleyber at SS for the time being.
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Post by pippsheadache on Apr 7, 2021 6:18:39 GMT -5
Yep, that's the dilemma, Kaybli. Have to make the best of it. Tyler Wade is never the answer.
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Post by kaybli on Apr 7, 2021 6:22:49 GMT -5
Yep, that's the dilemma, Kaybli. Have to make the best of it. Tyler Wade is never the answer. But what about to the question "Who did the Yankees draft in the 4th round of the 2013 MLB draft?"
Bad joke. Sorry,
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Post by pippsheadache on Apr 7, 2021 6:55:11 GMT -5
Yep, that's the dilemma, Kaybli. Have to make the best of it. Tyler Wade is never the answer. But what about to the question "Who did the Yankees draft in the 4th round of the 2013 MLB draft?"
Bad joke. Sorry,
I figured you'd come up with something like that. In fact, as soon as I posted it, I thought "what if the question is who is the least-important position player on the Yankees?" Of course even that could change when Rougned Odor shows up.
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Post by kaybli on Apr 7, 2021 7:04:06 GMT -5
But what about to the question "Who did the Yankees draft in the 4th round of the 2013 MLB draft?"
Bad joke. Sorry,
I figured you'd come up with something like that. In fact, as soon as I posted it, I thought "what if the question is who is the least-important position player on the Yankees?" Of course even that could change when Rougned Odor shows up. LOL. Can't wait for good ol' Stinky to show up.
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Post by rizzuto on Apr 7, 2021 7:46:42 GMT -5
He could easily have been charged with 3-4 errors and has cost Bruce at least one. Right now the Yankee pitchers are already making extra pitchers and Luetge has a 13.50 ERA that should have been 4.50... I'm a Gleyber fan, but what you guys say is true. Some people (not me) used to complain about Jeter's play at SS, but he always had complete awareness of what was happening on the field. No way that play would have been close enough to review because Mountcastle would have been indisputably out. As it was, Gleyber's minuscule delay made it bang bang. And I don't blame the ump, that was a tough call, but I do blame the video guys for not getting it right. For a borderline major leaguer like Luetge, that play could hurt his chances of sticking. Otherwise it's three quick groundball outs. Of course the Yanks know this too. Torres so far has shown no sign of improvement at SS. It's frustrating. I visited a Red Sox forum yesterday where they were discussing Gleyber, wondering if the Yankees could win a World Series with him at shortstop. Of course, there was the obligatory bashing of Jeter’s defense. He was a statue, overrated, etc. But, one Red Sox fan remarked that Jeter’s defensive woes were overblown and constantly parroted by guys like Rob Neyer and ESPN’s sabremetric guys; it was clickbait and was effective at riling up Jeter fan while providing fodder to the many Yankee haters. I’ve said this before but it bears repeating: Jeter’s main flaw defensively was range to his left, and when he dove for a ball on that side his glove arm rarely extended completely and his off hand hit the ground before his body - all limiting his reach and inertia toward second base. But, how many shortstops were better going backwards on fly balls or moving forward on slow rollers (Zimmer said Jeter was the best he had ever seen on the latter). I noticed Gleyber has trouble on throws deep in the hole. Jeter excelled at those, which is why he played so deep at short: he had the arm to do so. Think about how many times you remember Jeter whiffing on a hard shot, clanking a grounder off his glove, airmailing a throw, or bobbling a ball, allowing the runner to reach? Is it just me blocking out those plays, because I recall very few? Jeter also covered up outfielders with less than stellar arms like Bernie and Damon, venturing farther into the outfield than most shortstops for relays and throws home. Was Jeter Ozzie Smith? Not even close. But, as maligned as some Gold Gloves are, you don’t win five of them by being the worst defensive shortstop in baseball or in baseball history, as Rob Neyer wanted everyone to believe.
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Post by Renfield on Apr 7, 2021 15:09:18 GMT -5
Amen, rizz. Jeter made every play he could get to. Not as much range as others, but when he got to the ball, he was as sure-handed and accurate as anyone.
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Post by pippsheadache on Apr 7, 2021 15:39:36 GMT -5
Double Amen, Rizz and Ren. We never held our breath when the ball was hit in the SS territory. If Jeter ever pulled an out and out rock, they were few and far between. And I wasn't watching when it happened.
Whatever his range deficiencies-- and they weren't severe -- they were more than compensated for by his situational awareness, sure-handedness and a general baseball intelligence that was as great as any I have ever seen. For any ball to his right that he didn't get to, there were far more instances where he made the great throw to the right base in a clutch situation.
Jeter seemed too good to be true to a lot of people, and there is a certain mindset that is put off by this and will look for anything to smear the guy. So about midway through his career, when it was obvious that he was on the express train to Cooperstown, a coalition of geeks and Yankee haters came up with this meme that Jeter was highly over-rated and that he was a genuine defensive liability.
Taking his whole game into account, he was clearly one of the greatest shortstops of all time and the single most important player on a team with a great 15 year run. If you can't appreciate what Derek Jeter did for baseball, you're missing out on a great sport.
The ankle-biters can KMA. Sorry for the rant. But they get on my last nerve.
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Post by inger on Apr 7, 2021 16:06:15 GMT -5
Double Amen, Rizz and Ren. We never held our breath when the ball was hit in the SS territory. If Jeter ever pulled an out and out rock, they were few and far between. And I wasn't watching when it happened. Whatever his range deficiencies-- and they weren't severe -- they were more than compensated for by his situational awareness, sure-handedness and a general baseball intelligence that was as great as any I have ever seen. For any ball to his right that he didn't get to, there were far more instances where he made the great throw to the right base in a clutch situation. Jeter seemed too good to be true to a lot of people, and there is a certain mindset that is put off by this and will look for anything to smear the guy. So about midway through his career, when it was obvious that he was on the express train to Cooperstown, a coalition of geeks and Yankee haters came up with this meme that Jeter was highly over-rated and that he was a genuine defensive liability. Taking his whole game into account, he was clearly one of the greatest shortstops of all time and the single most important player on a team with a great 15 year run. If you can't appreciate what Derek Jeter did for baseball, you're missing out on a great sport. The ankle-biters can KMA. Sorry for the rant. But they get on my last nerve. There are so many aspects of baseball that defy measurement. Even Jeter’s offensive stats don’t reflect the way he took the ball to right field, often advancing base runners even when he made an out. The way he knew when to take the extra base with measured risk. No “Charley Hustle” extra outs for Derek. I do believe that whatever he lacked to his left side was made up for by what he did on his right side. Close your eyes and remember those incredible jump throws, then recall Torres work to his right just from this season. The difference is appalling. So statistically, Derek Jeter looks bad on paper. Well, as Bouton said in “Ball Four”, “Tell your statistics to shut up”. We saw it in person, and we saw it repeatedly. I also suspect that some of those “failures” to Jeter’s left may have had to do with positioning. He was more of an old school SS, and it was pretty common for them to hedge their bet toward the 5/6 hole... today’s SS is often shifted to cover 2B more with the 2B being more into RF...
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Post by pippsheadache on Apr 7, 2021 16:29:30 GMT -5
For sure Jeter passes the eye test with flags flying. Another player the geeks downgrade is Roberto Clemente. Ban and I had that discussion multiple times. We were on the same side. You couldn't actually watch that guy play and not recognize the historic greatness.
I do think most ordinary fans understood how special Jeter was. I was at a suburban Philly sports bar for that game where Jeter got his 3,000th hit, a home run off of David Price in a game where he went five for five and had the game-winning hit.
This was not a Yankee crowd, but they gave him a standing ovation when he did that because they appreciated what his career meant. Even when I lived in Boston, the typical fan there clearly admired Jeter.
Well okay, back to the here and now for this superannuated relic.
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