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Post by rizzuto on Aug 17, 2018 20:01:25 GMT -5
Maybe package Andujar in a trade for a higher end SP- or a 1B? I hope the Yankees use FA to acquire one or two high end pitchers.....it is a gift to teams like the Yankees to be able to simply sign from Fa rather than provide the necessary talent in a trade.... I am ready to give up on Bird....whether it's injuries, or whether he falls a little short at the ML level, the Yankees need to look, beyond him....Andujar surely could play 1B at a ML level...I hate that we would be so RH heavy on offense....could we get someone like Votto in a trade using Andujar? Looking at 2019, the staff needs to add an ace #1, and another #2 starter....it is foolish to think as some may, that we could ever bludgeon our way to a title... I agree on using free agency to bolster starting pitching, but not on Bird. Bird has 531 major league at bats (about one full season) over three years, which included three surgeries. Still, he has amassed 29 doubles, 29 homers, 88 RBI, and a triple. And, that excludes his playoff performances, in which he has over a .900 OPS. He is only 25 years old. Much too early to give up. |
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Post by inger on Aug 17, 2018 20:50:15 GMT -5
Bird is still a viable MLB star. The issue seems to be whether or not he would benefit, more specifically would have benefited from spending some time reacquainting his skill set at the MiLB level rather than having to scuffle to find his timing, etc. vs. the best pitchers in the world. The reason he didn’t was because the plan the Yankees put into place to fill the void until he was ready failed so miserably that it needed to be abandoned...
I still don’t want to add Machado...
Mayer, even IF we could get him is not going to be helpful at this point in his career, and I don’t give up Andujar at this point for almost anyone not named De Grom...or Schertzer...
Harper’s inconsistency is maddening...
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Post by utahyank on Aug 17, 2018 20:52:06 GMT -5
I hope the Yankees use FA to acquire one or two high end pitchers.....it is a gift to teams like the Yankees to be able to simply sign from Fa rather than provide the necessary talent in a trade.... I am ready to give up on Bird....whether it's injuries, or whether he falls a little short at the ML level, the Yankees need to look, beyond him....Andujar surely could play 1B at a ML level...I hate that we would be so RH heavy on offense....could we get someone like Votto in a trade using Andujar? Looking at 2019, the staff needs to add an ace #1, and another #2 starter....it is foolish to think as some may, that we could ever bludgeon our way to a title... I agree on using free agency to bolster starting pitching, but not on Bird. Bird has 531 major league at bats (about one full season) over three years, which included three surgeries. Still, he has amassed 29 doubles, 29 homers, 88 RBI, and a triple. And, that excludes his playoff performances, in which he has over a .900 OPS. He is only 25 years old. Much too early to give up. It's not too early to stop thinking he will ever be an important cog in a championship machine....as long as the Yankees think that, they will not be looking at developing a better 1B, or making a trade or FA acquisition....keep him, because he has little trade value, but stop the fantasy that "next year" or "after the next injury", he will be a beast.....it's not going to happen...…... |
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Post by inger on Aug 17, 2018 21:03:39 GMT -5
One of the more frightening aspects about Bird is that it’s nearly impossible to NOT think of how similar his career track is to that of Nick Johnson. When Bird is struggling you sort of wonder what might be wrong with him now, and what operation he’ll need to repair it...
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Post by kaybli on Aug 17, 2018 21:11:21 GMT -5
I wouldn't give up on Bird just yet. Give him a full healthy season. But one more serious injury and you really have to wonder.
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Post by inger on Aug 17, 2018 21:15:24 GMT -5
We’ve seen what he’s capable of. We just need to see it again. Starting right now would be a great time...
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Post by rizzuto on Aug 18, 2018 2:29:15 GMT -5
I agree on using free agency to bolster starting pitching, but not on Bird. Bird has 531 major league at bats (about one full season) over three years, which included three surgeries. Still, he has amassed 29 doubles, 29 homers, 88 RBI, and a triple. And, that excludes his playoff performances, in which he has over a .900 OPS. He is only 25 years old. Much too early to give up. It's not too early to stop thinking he will ever be an important cog in a championship machine....as long as the Yankees think that, they will not be looking at developing a better 1B, or making a trade or FA acquisition....keep him, because he has little trade value, but stop the fantasy that "next year" or "after the next injury", he will be a beast.....it's not going to happen...…... I do not understand your rationale or your rhetoric. Keeping Bird does not necessarily preclude the Yankees from developing players at that position or free agency acquisitions, except this season due to resetting their luxury tax penalty percentage. As for fantastical thinking, I merely listed some of Bird's actual career numbers, which I believed instructive in part due to their compiled range of approximately one full season. Moreover, you list quotations which lack attribution but most certainly are your words and not mine. Admittedly, I have no crystal ball for future prognostications and made no beastly assertions. Rather, the only prediction is "it's never going to happen," and that soothsaying is all yours. Had the Yankees not developed Don Mattingly, they may have kept Steve Balboni. If not for Bernie Williams, they may not have traded Roberto Kelly for Paul O'Neill. As there is no Mattingly waiting in the wings, I would contend that indeed it is too early to give up on the 25 year old Greg Bird. At the very least, his potential warrants the patience to provide one year removed from injury, one full Spring training, and one full season of at bats, which up to this point he has yet to be afforded. I do not think that to be unreasonable, and certainly not abject fantasy for consideration. |
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Post by domeplease on Aug 18, 2018 6:56:12 GMT -5
Play Machado at 3rd... Andujar at 1B / DH ? YES!!! We could Switch Andujar to 1B/DH and when Machado needs a rest move him to DH & Andujar back to 3B. Than we have Toe as Back-up for 2B & Short, etc. |
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Post by utahyank on Aug 18, 2018 11:47:58 GMT -5
It's not too early to stop thinking he will ever be an important cog in a championship machine....as long as the Yankees think that, they will not be looking at developing a better 1B, or making a trade or FA acquisition....keep him, because he has little trade value, but stop the fantasy that "next year" or "after the next injury", he will be a beast.....it's not going to happen...…... I do not understand your rationale or your rhetoric. Keeping Bird does not necessarily preclude the Yankees from developing players at that position or free agency acquisitions, except this season due to resetting their luxury tax penalty percentage. As for fantastical thinking, I merely listed some of Bird's actual career numbers, which I believed instructive in part due to their compiled range of approximately one full season. Moreover, you list quotations which lack attribution but most certainly are your words and not mine. Admittedly, I have no crystal ball for future prognostications and made no beastly assertions. Rather, the only prediction is "it's never going to happen," and that soothsaying is all yours. Had the Yankees not developed Don Mattingly, they may have kept Steve Balboni. If not for Bernie Williams, they may not have traded Roberto Kelly for Paul O'Neill. As there is no Mattingly waiting in the wings, I would contend that indeed it is too early to give up on the 25 year old Greg Bird. At the very least, his potential warrants the patience to provide one year removed from injury, one full Spring training, and one full season of at bats, which up to this point he has yet to be afforded. I do not think that to be unreasonable, and certainly not abject fantasy for consideration. whoa, scooter...……..don't take it personally...I was responding to your post, but speaking of the Bird situation, not your words.....of course all that is my opinion, and nothing else.....that's what this board is..... what I see is that the Yankees for maybe 4 or 5 years now have looked at Bird as their 1B of a hoped-for dynasty...they had control of the tall RH hitting 1B last year that could hit, and traded him....they put their eggs in Bird's basket and it has not worked out....I think it is time to move on....who would be available in FA this year?.....Moreland?....somebody else?....could we make a splash and sign Machado for 3B and trade Andujar for Votto?... this is just my opinion....if yours is different that is fine.... |
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Post by rizzuto on Aug 18, 2018 14:07:19 GMT -5
I do not understand your rationale or your rhetoric. Keeping Bird does not necessarily preclude the Yankees from developing players at that position or free agency acquisitions, except this season due to resetting their luxury tax penalty percentage. As for fantastical thinking, I merely listed some of Bird's actual career numbers, which I believed instructive in part due to their compiled range of approximately one full season. Moreover, you list quotations which lack attribution but most certainly are your words and not mine. Admittedly, I have no crystal ball for future prognostications and made no beastly assertions. Rather, the only prediction is "it's never going to happen," and that soothsaying is all yours. Had the Yankees not developed Don Mattingly, they may have kept Steve Balboni. If not for Bernie Williams, they may not have traded Roberto Kelly for Paul O'Neill. As there is no Mattingly waiting in the wings, I would contend that indeed it is too early to give up on the 25 year old Greg Bird. At the very least, his potential warrants the patience to provide one year removed from injury, one full Spring training, and one full season of at bats, which up to this point he has yet to be afforded. I do not think that to be unreasonable, and certainly not abject fantasy for consideration. whoa, scooter...……..don't take it personally...I was responding to your post, but speaking of the Bird situation, not your words.....of course all that is my opinion, and nothing else.....that's what this board is..... what I see is that the Yankees for maybe 4 or 5 years now have looked at Bird as their 1B of a hoped-for dynasty...they had control of the tall RH hitting 1B last year that could hit, and traded him....they put their eggs in Bird's basket and it has not worked out....I think it is time to move on....who would be available in FA this year?.....Moreland?....somebody else?....could we make a splash and sign Machado for 3B and trade Andujar for Votto?... this is just my opinion....if yours is different that is fine.... Take what personally? I merely responded to the assertions in the post. I do not believe anything I wrote in response could be considered a personal affront. Rather, I simply did not and do not understand your rationale regarding Greg Bird. And, there are varying categories of opinion. If one were to say that the best flavor of ice cream is vanilla, there would be little to discuss on a discussion board, as the assertion is purely subjective. In other words, such a category of opinion is a matter of personal taste and, hence, cannot be wrong necessarily - unless of course it could be proven that the assertion was in fact dishonest. However, if one were to say that - in his or her opinion - Tony Womack was a better hitter than Ted Williams, a rather vigorous debate could be had, from which that opinion could readily be dismissed as balderdash. Put another way, there are some opinions that - to continue to be held rationally - should be based upon some objective fact or reasoning to have merit. For example, consider your most recent take on the Yankees' valuation of Greg Bird and whether or not it is logical to continue to provide him an opportunity at first base. Five years ago, Greg Bird was in A ball. Four years ago, Bird was in A ball, Fall League, and AA. That is not exactly a mirror of Ken Griffey, Jr., who was a solid rookie at 19 years old and an all-star at 20. Therefore, to say that the Yankees considered Bird an integral cog in the wheels of a future dynasty four or five years ago is difficult to accept as accurate. Remember, Bird was a fifth-round draft choice - as a catcher and was moved to first base. And, regarding opportunity…in 2015, Bird was in AA and AAA and was called up to the major leagues in mid-August, receiving regular playing time only due to an injury a few days later to Mark Teixeira. However, those 157 major league at-bats and resulting 135 OPS+ were impressive. That off-season, he suffered a torn labrum and had shoulder surgery, missing the entire 2016 season. Then, in 2017, Greg Bird arguably had the best Spring Training performance in baseball, leading the league in extra base hits, home runs, slugging, OBP, and OPS. Then, a foul-ball off his foot at the end of Spring Training and a subsequent misdiagnosis and an eventual surgical removal of a bone from his foot. This season, he had ankle surgery to remove a bone spur on March 27. He did not return until May 26, twelve weeks ago. Again, hardly a career of opportunities thus far…and too soon to proclaim with virtual certainty that "it's not going to happen." However, I am willing to be persuaded otherwise. Aaron Hicks is nearly 29 years old, and he has never had a season over 352 at bats (this season will be the first). Good thing the plug wasn't pulled on him at age 25. Is it really unreasonable for the Yankees to provide Bird a full Spring Training, a full season of at bats, and a season unencumbered with injury? Also, why view Greg Bird and the future of first base for the Yankees a zero-sum situation? The Yankees are not hampered from developing, drafting, or exploring free agency to improve any position, irrespective of the presence of Greg Bird. I could understand if a Donny Mattingly was waiting, but that is not the case. Why is THIS season the one in which the Yankees should pull the plug? Is 25 years old the point to declare a Dome-certified retread? Lastly, would you feel the same way about Bird if the Boston Red Sox were in third place playing .500 ball? |
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Post by utahyank on Aug 18, 2018 14:29:47 GMT -5
whoa, scooter...……..don't take it personally...I was responding to your post, but speaking of the Bird situation, not your words.....of course all that is my opinion, and nothing else.....that's what this board is..... what I see is that the Yankees for maybe 4 or 5 years now have looked at Bird as their 1B of a hoped-for dynasty...they had control of the tall RH hitting 1B last year that could hit, and traded him....they put their eggs in Bird's basket and it has not worked out....I think it is time to move on....who would be available in FA this year?.....Moreland?....somebody else?....could we make a splash and sign Machado for 3B and trade Andujar for Votto?... this is just my opinion....if yours is different that is fine.... Take what personally? I merely responded to the assertions in the post. I do not believe anything I wrote in response could be considered a personal affront. Rather, I simply did not and do not understand your rationale regarding Greg Bird. And, there are varying categories of opinion. If one were to say that the best flavor of ice cream is vanilla, there would be little to discuss on a discussion board, as the assertion is purely subjective. In other words, such a category of opinion is a matter of personal taste and, hence, cannot be wrong necessarily - unless of course it could be proven that the assertion was in fact dishonest. However, if one were to say that - in his or her opinion - Tony Womack was a better hitter than Ted Williams, a rather vigorous debate could be had, from which that opinion could readily be dismissed as balderdash. Put another way, there are some opinions that - to continue to be held rationally - should be based upon some objective fact or reasoning to have merit. For example, consider your most recent take on the Yankees' valuation of Greg Bird and whether or not it is logical to continue to provide him an opportunity at first base. Five years ago, Greg Bird was in A ball. Four years ago, Bird was in A ball, Fall League, and AA. That is not exactly a mirror of Ken Griffey, Jr., who was a solid rookie at 19 years old and an all-star at 20. Therefore, to say that the Yankees considered Bird an integral cog in the wheels of a future dynasty four or five years ago is difficult to accept as accurate. Remember, Bird was a fifth-round draft choice - as a catcher and was moved to first base. And, regarding opportunity…in 2015, Bird was in AA and AAA and was called up to the major leagues in mid-August, receiving regular playing time only due to an injury a few days later to Mark Teixeira. However, those 157 major league at-bats and resulting 135 OPS+ were impressive. That off-season, he suffered a torn labrum and had shoulder surgery, missing the entire 2016 season. Then, in 2017, Greg Bird arguably had the best Spring Training performance in baseball, leading the league in extra base hits, home runs, slugging, OBP, and OPS. Then, a foul-ball off his foot at the end of Spring Training and a subsequent misdiagnosis and an eventual surgical removal of a bone from his foot. This season, he had ankle surgery to remove a bone spur on March 27. He did not return until May 26, twelve weeks ago. Again, hardly a career of opportunities thus far…and too soon to proclaim with virtual certainty that "it's not going to happen." However, I am willing to be persuaded otherwise. Aaron Hicks is nearly 29 years old, and he has never had a season over 352 at bats (this season will be the first). Good thing the plug wasn't pulled on him at age 25. Is it really unreasonable for the Yankees to provide Bird a full Spring Training, a full season of at bats, and a season unencumbered with injury? Also, why view Greg Bird and the future of first base for the Yankees a zero-sum situation? The Yankees are not hampered from developing, drafting, or exploring free agency to improve any position, irrespective of the presence of Greg Bird. I could understand if a Donny Mattingly was waiting, but that is not the case. Why is THIS season the one in which the Yankees should pull the plug? Is 25 years old the point to declare a Dome-certified retread? Lastly, would you feel the same way about Bird if the Boston Red Sox were in third place playing .500 ball? whatever......regards |
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Post by rizzuto on Aug 19, 2018 8:28:33 GMT -5
One of the more frightening aspects about Bird is that it’s nearly impossible to NOT think of how similar his career track is to that of Nick Johnson. When Bird is struggling you sort of wonder what might be wrong with him now, and what operation he’ll need to repair it... True enough, and Nick Johnson has crossed my mind many times. And, Bird had injuries and shoulder surgery in the minors. One thing though...from age 26 to 30 Nick Johnson averaged an .887 OPS in the National League. I'd hate to see that repeated with Bird...say in Boston...poking dents off the Green Monster. |
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Post by rizzuto on Aug 19, 2018 9:53:29 GMT -5
Regarding individual WAR and Yankees' World Series Appearances:
The following are the years the Yankees competed in the World Series, the result and games, and their individual regular season leader in WAR:
1921: Lost WS vs. New York Giants (5-3): Babe Ruth (12.5)
1922: Lost WS vs. New York Giants (4-0-1): Bob Shawkey (6.9)
1923: Won WS vs. New York Giants (4-2): Babe Ruth (14.1)
1926: Lost WS vs. St. Louis Cardinals (4-3): Babe Ruth (11.5)
1927: Won WS vs. Pittsburgh Pirates (4-0): Babe Ruth (12.4)
1928: Won WS vs. St. Louis Cardinals (4-0): Babe Ruth (10.1)
1932: Won WS vs. Chicago Cubs (4-0): Babe Ruth (8.3)
1936: Won WS vs. New York Giants (4-2): Lou Gehrig (9.1)
1937: Won WS vs. New York Giants (4-1): Lefty Gomez (9.1)
1938: Won WS vs. Chicago Cubs (4-0): Red Ruffing (6.0)
1939: Won WS vs. Cincinnati Reds (4-0): Joe DiMaggio (8.1)
1941: Won WS vs. Brooklyn Dodgers (4-1): Joe DiMaggio (9.1)
1942: Lost WS vs. St. Louis Cardinals (4-1): Joe Gordon (8.2)
1943: Won WS vs. St. Louis Cardinals (4-1): Spud Chandler (7.3)
1947: Won WS vs. Brooklyn Dodgers (4-3): Joe DiMaggio (4.8)
1949: Won WS vs. Brooklyn Dodgers (4-1): Joe DiMaggio (4.4)
1950: Won WS vs. Philadelphia Phillies (4-0): Phil Rizzuto (6.7)
1951: Won WS vs. New York Giants (4-2): Yogi Berra (4.8)
1952: Won WS vs. Brooklyn Dodgers (4-3): Mickey Mantle (6.5)
1953: Won WS vs. Brooklyn Dodgers (4-2): Mickey Mantle (5.8)
1955: Lost WS vs. Brooklyn Dodgers (4-3): Mickey Mantle (9.6)
1956: Won WS vs. Brooklyn Dodgers (4-3): Mickey Mantle (11.3)
1957: Lost WS vs. Milwaukee Braves (4-3): Mickey Mantle (11.3)
1958: Won WS vs. Milwaukee Braves (4-3): Mickey Mantle (8.7)
1960: Lost WS vs. Pittsburgh Pirates (4-3): Roger Maris (7.5)
1961: Won WS vs. Cincinnati Reds (4-1): Mickey Mantle (10.5)
1962: Won WS vs. San Francisco Giants (4-3): Mickey Mantle (5.9)
1963: Lost WS vs. Los Angeles Dodgers (4-0): Elston Howard (5.2)
1964: Lost WS vs. St. Louis Cardinals (4-3): Whitey Ford (6.7)
1976: Lost WS vs. Cincinnati Reds (4-0): Graig Nettles (8.0)
1977: Won WS vs. Los Angeles Dodgers (4-2) Graig Nettles (5.5)
1978: Won WS vs. Los Angeles Dodgers (4-2): Ron Guidry (9.6)
1981: Lost WS vs. Los Angeles Dodgers (4-2): Dave Righetti (3.5)
1996: Won WS vs. Atlanta Braves (4-2): Andy Pettitte (5.6)
1998: Won WS vs. San Diego Padres (4-0): Derek Jeter (7.5)
1999: Won WS vs. Atlanta Braves (4-0): Derek Jeter (8.0)
2000: Won WS vs. New York Mets (4-1): Jorge Posada (5.5)
2001: Lost WS vs. Arizona Diamondbacks (4-3): Mike Mussina (6.6)
2009: Won WS vs. Philadelphia Phillies (4-2): Derek Jeter (6.6)
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Post by domeplease on Aug 20, 2018 10:38:01 GMT -5
TOE is BACK & HOT!!! Sad about Didi's injury...
Move Toe to 2B & Torres to SS.
Can Toe play right field, if so upon Didi's return send Robinson back to the minors and for the time being move Toe to RF? |
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Post by Renfield on Aug 20, 2018 11:25:30 GMT -5
TOE is BACK & HOT!!! Sad about Didi's injury...
Move Toe to 2B & Torres to SS.
Can Toe play right field, if so upon Didi's return send Robinson back to the minors and for the time being move Toe to RF? If Toe can play RF, then send Robinson down. He needs to learn how to hit a curveball. And a change up. And a slider. And a fastball. And a, well, a baseball in general. |
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