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Post by chiyankee on Jul 29, 2024 21:53:45 GMT -5
From whom? And, where was this documented? Also, I have labeled no one as reluctant to move to a new position. I said, at least tacitly...there would be no documentation, even if he was asked directly. I don't believe for a second that Jeter was not consulted and involved in the decision to acquire ARod...essentially asked for permission to do so, with the assurance Jeter was safe at SS. It would have been crazy to make that trade without consulting Jeter, especially after the disrespectful comments Arod made about Jeter to the media. |
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Post by azbob643 on Jul 29, 2024 21:59:24 GMT -5
I said, at least tacitly...there would be no documentation, even if he was asked directly. I don't believe for a second that Jeter was not consulted and involved in the decision to acquire ARod...essentially asked for permission to do so, with the assurance Jeter was safe at SS. It would have been crazy to make that trade without consulting Jeter, especially after the disrespectful comments Arod made about Jeter to the media. True...and IMO a large part of that consultation was to assure Jeter they were not bringing in ARod as his replacement at SS. |
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Post by rizzuto on Jul 29, 2024 22:03:30 GMT -5
This is not really about Jeter...I simply held him up as an example of a player who I believe put his self-interest first, which IMO is totally understandable...even justified. And I'm only asking that all players, stars and obscure bench players, be treated and judged by the same standard. So, let me ask you to comment on what you believe to be a hypothetical situation. IF Jeter was asked to move to make room for ARod at SS, what do you think his reaction would've been? I have no idea. In another recent post with Pat, he provided an except (again from the O'Connor book) that Jeter spoke with Gene Michael about moving to first base or designated hitter to prolong his career ten years at approximately age 32. That appears to suggest that Jeter was amenable to playing baseball at another position other than shortstop. But, again, this is an academic exercise. In the real world, I am not aware of any evidence that Jeter refused to move from shortstop after being asked to do so; however, I am more than willing to change my mind given more information. |
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Post by azbob643 on Jul 29, 2024 22:17:01 GMT -5
IF Jeter was asked to move to make room for ARod at SS, what do you think his reaction would've been? I have no idea. In another recent post with Pat, he provided an except (again from the O'Connor book) that Jeter spoke with Gene Michael about moving to first base or designated hitter to prolong his career ten years at approximately age 32. That appears to suggest that Jeter was amenable to playing baseball at another position other than shortstop. But, again, this is an academic exercise. In the real world, I am not aware of any evidence that Jeter refused to move from shortstop after being asked to do so; however, I am more than willing to change my mind given more information. As I previously posted...moving to another position to extend a career is completely different than moving at the height of a career. In fact, it could be seen as selfishness. And you're right...to my knowledge there is no hard evidence to support my belief, just as there's no hard evidence to support Jeter's statement that he was never asked to move. |
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Post by rizzuto on Jul 29, 2024 22:28:32 GMT -5
I have no idea. In another recent post with Pat, he provided an except (again from the O'Connor book) that Jeter spoke with Gene Michael about moving to first base or designated hitter to prolong his career ten years at approximately age 32. That appears to suggest that Jeter was amenable to playing baseball at another position other than shortstop. But, again, this is an academic exercise. In the real world, I am not aware of any evidence that Jeter refused to move from shortstop after being asked to do so; however, I am more than willing to change my mind given more information. As I previously posted...moving to another position to extend a career is completely different than moving at the height of a career. In fact, it could be seen as selfishness. And you're right...to my knowledge there is no hard evidence to support my belief, just as there's no hard evidence to support Jeter's statement that he was never asked to move. So, you are maintaining - without evidence - that Jeter is lying? |
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Post by 1955nyyfan on Jul 29, 2024 22:34:30 GMT -5
There are no page numbers in the webpage but you can do a search and find the following text: The GM could not risk destroying the manager-captain relationship before it ever had a chance. Besides, Cashman had held a few conversations with Torre about moving Jeter to center field as far back as 2005, when the Yankees were dissatisfied with the aging Bernie Williams and Tony Womack. Torre told Cashman he would run the idea past Jeter, who was so reliable on pop flies the Yanks believed he could make a Robin Yount -- like transition to center. When the GM later asked Torre what had come of his talk with Jeter, the manager said the captain wanted to stay put. The O'Connor claim is that: Actually, Jeter himself brought up a position change seven years ago in a trainer's room conversation with Gene Michael, telling the longtime executive that he wanted to play another 10 seasons and would be willing to switch to first base or designated hitter to do it. Michael was among the team officials in attendance at the news conference and among the many in Yankeedom thrilled that Jeter, 39, would finish his career right where it started, right where he always belonged. That came from a Ian O'Connor and published by ESPN on 2/19/2014 Respectfully, I read all of this. Neither in the article nor the except above is there documentation that Jeter refused to move from the shortstop position. Actually, the last paragraph asserts quite the opposite: Supposedly, Jeter was willing to switch to first base or designated hitter to prolong his baseball career. What am I missing? Rizz, As a fan, I never had an issue with Jeter staying at SS when the Yanks got ARod. I guess the advanced metrics supported ARod moving to SS but I always felt Jeter was a winner. If an important out was needed there was no one on the Yankees I wanted a ball hit toward more than Jeter. His smarts and positioning helped offset some of range "issues". I do know when it comes to defensive play there are at least two iconic plays made by Jeter that all Yankee fans remember, The Giambi play at the plate to save a post season game and the dive into the stands to help beat Boston. We will never know for sure, but I doubt Arod makes either of those plays. Jeter was his best when it mattered most, both with the bat and the glove. |
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Post by ypaterson on Jul 29, 2024 22:59:48 GMT -5
This is not really about Jeter...I simply held him up as an example of a player who I believe put his self-interest first, which IMO is totally understandable...even justified. And I'm only asking that all players, stars and obscure bench players, be treated and judged by the same standard. So, let me ask you to comment on what you believe to be a hypothetical situation. IF Jeter was asked to move to make room for ARod at SS, what do you think his reaction would've been? I have no idea. In another recent post with Pat, he provided an except (again from the O'Connor book) that Jeter spoke with Gene Michael about moving to first base or designated hitter to prolong his career ten years at approximately age 32. That appears to suggest that Jeter was amenable to playing baseball at another position other than shortstop. But, again, this is an academic exercise. In the real world, I am not aware of any evidence that Jeter refused to move from shortstop after being asked to do so; however, I am more than willing to change my mind given more information. Good enough. But you first said that you were not aware that he was ever asked to consider a position change. That is very different IMO the subject was broached with him multiple times over the years. He did consider it and the Yankees respected his wishes. |
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Post by inger on Jul 30, 2024 0:23:09 GMT -5
Sheeee-it! New banned subject: Jeter vs. A-Rod… 😂
I’d chime in here, but I find it silly…And in context, one was a cheater who could barely move at third a few years later…
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Post by rizzuto on Jul 30, 2024 7:06:06 GMT -5
I have no idea. In another recent post with Pat, he provided an except (again from the O'Connor book) that Jeter spoke with Gene Michael about moving to first base or designated hitter to prolong his career ten years at approximately age 32. That appears to suggest that Jeter was amenable to playing baseball at another position other than shortstop. But, again, this is an academic exercise. In the real world, I am not aware of any evidence that Jeter refused to move from shortstop after being asked to do so; however, I am more than willing to change my mind given more information. Good enough. But you first said that you were not aware that he was ever asked to consider a position change. That is very different IMO the subject was broached with him multiple times over the years. He did consider it and the Yankees respected his wishes. I am still not aware of evidence that Jeter was asked to change positions and refused, much less multiple times. The article you cited does not provide clarity to those circumstances. |
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Post by rizzuto on Jul 30, 2024 7:11:37 GMT -5
Sheeee-it! New banned subject: Jeter vs. A-Rod… 😂 I’d chime in here, but I find it silly…And in context, one was a cheater who could barely move at third a few years later… Inger, is it my imagination, or doesn’t there seem to be resentment toward Jeter here, especially as the position appears based on innuendo and tacit or unspoken events? Am I missing something? |
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Post by inger on Jul 30, 2024 7:35:59 GMT -5
Sheeee-it! New banned subject: Jeter vs. A-Rod… 😂 I’d chime in here, but I find it silly…And in context, one was a cheater who could barely move at third a few years later… Inger, is it my imagination, or doesn’t there seem to be resentment toward Jeter here, especially as the position appears based on innuendo and tacit or unspoken events? Am I missing something? I’m not seeing any evidence either. There are two ways to look at this. A-Rod was probably the better defender for a while, but Jeter didn’t have the arm for third base. Knowing that, I doubt that anyone in management saw him as a third baseman. So why would they ask him to move? If there was a wise move it would have been to the outfield before A-Rod was ever signed, or to second base or first base afterward. Seems Jeter himself explored the possibility of first base. I think azbob was trying to find a comp to help defend Torres, but no comp is needed as Torres recanted an initial statement that he (Torres) made in haste. I know azbob had no intent to defile Jeter, and I believe it started as a theoretical question and took a wrong turn in further discussion. From what I saw of Jazz last night, he can play anywhere on the diamond. I’ll gladly take him at third and let the chips fall where they may. The hole gets deeper the more it’s discussed… |
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Post by chiyankee on Jul 30, 2024 8:30:25 GMT -5
Inger, is it my imagination, or doesn’t there seem to be resentment toward Jeter here, especially as the position appears based on innuendo and tacit or unspoken events? Am I missing something? I’m not seeing any evidence either. There are two ways to look at this. A-Rod was probably the better defender for a while, but Jeter didn’t have the arm for third base. Knowing that, I doubt that anyone in management saw him as a third baseman. So why would they ask him to move? I agree with this, I thought Jeter didn't have a third baseman's arm, while Arod did, so it didn't make sense to move Derek to third. |
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Post by chiyankee on Jul 30, 2024 8:56:48 GMT -5
Speaking of Jeter, I just read that Jeter Downs has been released so he can sign with a team in Japan. That will open up at bats for other players at Scranton.
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Post by azbob643 on Jul 30, 2024 9:23:17 GMT -5
So, you are maintaining - without evidence - that Jeter is lying? No…I’m not. Jeter may be truthful when he says he wasn’t asked directly to move from SS to accommodate Arod. IMO we’re talking semantics. And to be crystal clear… I have no resentment toward Jeter, and it’s not my intent to disparage him. There’s no question he was an essential part in the Yankees’ successful run; his on-field contributions and HOF credentials can’t be denied. |
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Post by ypaterson on Jul 30, 2024 9:23:26 GMT -5
Inger, is it my imagination, or doesn’t there seem to be resentment toward Jeter here, especially as the position appears based on innuendo and tacit or unspoken events? Am I missing something? I’m not seeing any evidence either. There are two ways to look at this. A-Rod was probably the better defender for a while, but Jeter didn’t have the arm for third base. Knowing that, I doubt that anyone in management saw him as a third baseman. So why would they ask him to move? If there was a wise move it would have been to the outfield before A-Rod was ever signed, or to second base or first base afterward. Seems Jeter himself explored the possibility of first base. I think azbob was trying to find a comp to help defend Torres, but no comp is needed as Torres recanted an initial statement that he (Torres) made in haste. I know azbob had no intent to defile Jeter, and I believe it started as a theoretical question and took a wrong turn in further discussion. From what I saw of Jazz last night, he can play anywhere on the diamond. I’ll gladly take him at third and let the chips fall where they may. The hole gets deeper the more it’s discussed… WE all love the Yankees as a team and each of us has players with whom we have a special affinity. I've posted many times that Yogi Berra could do no wrong in my eytes. Maybe Stengel felt otherwise. I was a Jeter loyalist. Much of the venom I spit out towards Cashman originates in the way he handled the declining talents of Williams, Posada and Jeter. I felt that Cashman's inability to manage that situation reflected poorly on the Yankees. My sole point in all this is that the position a guy plays is more important to some than others. I don't know why. I know that DiMaggio, Jeter and another New York star, Mike Piazza resisted the idea of playing somewhere else on the field. Maybe the same is true of Gleyber Torres. I don't hate the guy for that. |
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