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Post by yankeesfaninboston on Jul 29, 2024 20:54:10 GMT -5
"You mean to tell me we were trying to win a championship every year," Jeter told Cashman, "and there was a way for me to get better to help us do that, and nobody told me?
"I'm only going to play for so many years, and if you're telling me there are things I can do to make us better and put us in a better position to win, why wouldn't someone tell me this? . . . I want to do everything I can to get better. It makes me wonder how good we could've been and how many more championships we might've won if I'd dealt with this."
It was the perfect response. It was the winning response.
It was Jeter revealing the essence of his greatness."
I thought I was on a politics forum reading obvious propaganda like this lol. How much did Jeter pay them to make up these quotes lol
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Post by azbob643 on Jul 29, 2024 20:55:43 GMT -5
...this was Jeters team, Face of the Yankees, Face of the MLB, perenial all star, perenial MVP canidate, multiple WS rings, middle of a contract, Captain of one of the greatest dynasties in sports history ... do you need more? On top of that he went on to win 3 consecutive GGs, 5 in 7 years, and was a 1st ballot HOF All of which is irrelevant to this discussion. |
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Post by azbob643 on Jul 29, 2024 21:01:18 GMT -5
There's nothing to suggest that moving Gleyber to 3B at this point would make the team "better" Gleyber has been a huge disappointment and so far has let the team down when they needed him most. He's unfortunately played himself off of the Yankees and out of a big contract. He's not in the plans for the future and Chisholm now is? It's unfortunate and disappointing but they have to do whats best for the team ... not Gleyber This has nothing to do with Gleyber's play this year…don’t know why you keep bringing it up. But since you have...are you still clamoring for Gleyber to move to 3B, rather than Chisholm? |
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Post by yankeesfaninboston on Jul 29, 2024 21:03:49 GMT -5
The way Gleyber is playing in the field people should be clamoring for him to move to DH, not 3B
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Post by rizzuto on Jul 29, 2024 21:07:11 GMT -5
I highly doubt anyone ever asked Jeter to consider moving from shortstop. And I have absolutely no doubt Yanks conferred with Jeter and got his approval before pulling the trigger and acquiring ARod. If they didn’t ask him directly it’s because they knew what the answer would be, even though there’s no question ARod was the better SS. I have no idea if the Yankees conferred with Jeter about obtaining ARod, which is not really the issue being put forward to my understanding. Rather, there appears to be an implied suggestion that Derek Jeter was/is selfish and not a team player due to refusing to move off shortstop in favor of ARod. As far as I am aware, there is no evidence that such a conversation ever took place. Cashman has never stated that he had any conversation with Jeter about moving away from shortstop, and Jeter has stated publicly that no one ever spoke to him about moving to another position. As for ARod being a better shortstop, he also had a much better arm, which is more likely why he played third base. ARod even has stated clearly that he knew he was coming to the Yankees to play third base. Not sure where the latent hatred of Jeter comes from, especially from Yankee fans. |
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Post by rizzuto on Jul 29, 2024 21:13:59 GMT -5
"You mean to tell me we were trying to win a championship every year," Jeter told Cashman, "and there was a way for me to get better to help us do that, and nobody told me? "I'm only going to play for so many years, and if you're telling me there are things I can do to make us better and put us in a better position to win, why wouldn't someone tell me this? . . . I want to do everything I can to get better. It makes me wonder how good we could've been and how many more championships we might've won if I'd dealt with this." It was the perfect response. It was the winning response. It was Jeter revealing the essence of his greatness." I thought I was on a politics forum reading obvious propaganda like this lol. How much did Jeter pay them to make up these quotes lol If a fellow member on this forum posts something for me to read, I will always feel obligated to read every word. The quotation was from that very article cited for me to review. Unfortunately, it did not contain the specific information purported. I suspect if anyone avails themselves of the article in its entirety, they would probably agree. |
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Post by bomberhojoe on Jul 29, 2024 21:14:07 GMT -5
Jeter made it very clear he would not move to allow ARod to take over at SS. Making a move to extend his career, as many SS have done, is not the same as moving at the peak of his career. There's nothing to suggest that moving Gleyber to 3B at this point would make the team "better", although as a "team player" he's indicated he's willing to do so if asked. I remember Jeter refusing to move as well. Even if he didn't, it was clear he was not the superior SS and should have suggested moving himself to 3B if it might have made the team better. Jeter always hustled and gave 100%, but his ego won out in that situation. |
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Post by azbob643 on Jul 29, 2024 21:17:31 GMT -5
And I have absolutely no doubt Yanks conferred with Jeter and got his approval before pulling the trigger and acquiring ARod. If they didn’t ask him directly it’s because they knew what the answer would be, even though there’s no question ARod was the better SS. I have no idea if the Yankees conferred with Jeter about obtaining ARod, which is not really the issue being put forward to my understanding. Rather, there appears to be an implied suggestion that Derek Jeter was/is selfish and not a team player due to refusing to move off shortstop in favor of ARod. As far as I am aware, there is no evidence that such a conversation ever took place. Cashman has never stated that he had any conversation with Jeter about moving away from shortstop, and Jeter has stated publicly that no one ever spoke to him about moving to another position. As for ARod being a better shortstop, he also had a much better arm, which is more likely why he played third base. ARod even has stated clearly that he knew he was coming to the Yankees to play third base. Not sure where the latent hatred of Jeter comes from, especially from Yankee fans. For starters, there's definitely no "latent hatred of Jeter" on my part. There's nothing in my mind to detract from his contributions and justifiably HOF career. My point is that if we're going to label a player as being selfish and not a "team player" for being reluctant to move to a new position, let's hold every player to that standard. I have absolutely no doubt that Jeter would not have moved from SS had he been asked to do so...which I believe he, at least tacitly, was. |
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Post by rizzuto on Jul 29, 2024 21:21:51 GMT -5
I have no idea if the Yankees conferred with Jeter about obtaining ARod, which is not really the issue being put forward to my understanding. Rather, there appears to be an implied suggestion that Derek Jeter was/is selfish and not a team player due to refusing to move off shortstop in favor of ARod. As far as I am aware, there is no evidence that such a conversation ever took place. Cashman has never stated that he had any conversation with Jeter about moving away from shortstop, and Jeter has stated publicly that no one ever spoke to him about moving to another position. As for ARod being a better shortstop, he also had a much better arm, which is more likely why he played third base. ARod even has stated clearly that he knew he was coming to the Yankees to play third base. Not sure where the latent hatred of Jeter comes from, especially from Yankee fans. For starters, there's definitely no "latent hatred of Jeter" on my part. There's nothing in my mind to detract from his contributions and justifiably HOF career. My point is that if we're going to label a player as being selfish and not a "team player" for being reluctant to move to a new position, let's hold every player to that standard. I have absolutely no doubt that Jeter would not have moved from SS had he been asked to do so... which I believe he, at least tacitly, was.From whom? And, where was this documented? Also, I have labeled no one as reluctant to move to a new position. |
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Post by azbob643 on Jul 29, 2024 21:32:50 GMT -5
For starters, there's definitely no "latent hatred of Jeter" on my part. There's nothing in my mind to detract from his contributions and justifiably HOF career. My point is that if we're going to label a player as being selfish and not a "team player" for being reluctant to move to a new position, let's hold every player to that standard. I have absolutely no doubt that Jeter would not have moved from SS had he been asked to do so... which I believe he, at least tacitly, was.From whom? And, where was this documented? Also, I have labeled no one as reluctant to move to a new position. I said, at least tacitly...there would be no documentation, even if he was asked directly. I don't believe for a second that Jeter was not consulted and involved in the decision to acquire ARod...essentially asked for permission to do so, with the assurance Jeter was safe at SS. |
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Post by azbob643 on Jul 29, 2024 21:38:39 GMT -5
Also, I have labeled no one as reluctant to move to a new position. Didn't say or suggest you did...but certainly several others, including writers, have. |
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Post by rizzuto on Jul 29, 2024 21:40:08 GMT -5
From whom? And, where was this documented? Also, I have labeled no one as reluctant to move to a new position. I said, at least tacitly...there would be no documentation, even if he was asked directly. I don't believe for a second that Jeter was not consulted and involved in the decision to acquire ARod...essentially asked for permission to do so, with the assurance Jeter was safe at SS. Perhaps I simply do not understand. Why believe in a position in which there is no evidence to justify it? Why denigrate Jeter as refusing to move to another position without supporting information? What is the point of holding on to such a position years after his retirement? |
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Post by ypaterson on Jul 29, 2024 21:41:56 GMT -5
I do not mean to be disrespectful, but please tell me where in the article it says that Cashman ever spoke with Jeter about moving from shortstop, even once? This was a conversation about Jeter improving his lateral movement (at shortstop), which is old news from the O'Connor book, and Jeter worked all off-season to do so: "You mean to tell me we were trying to win a championship every year," Jeter told Cashman, "and there was a way for me to get better to help us do that, and nobody told me?
"I'm only going to play for so many years, and if you're telling me there are things I can do to make us better and put us in a better position to win, why wouldn't someone tell me this? . . . I want to do everything I can to get better. It makes me wonder how good we could've been and how many more championships we might've won if I'd dealt with this."
It was the perfect response. It was the winning response.
It was Jeter revealing the essence of his greatness." There are no page numbers in the webpage but you can do a search and find the following text: The GM could not risk destroying the manager-captain relationship before it ever had a chance. Besides, Cashman had held a few conversations with Torre about moving Jeter to center field as far back as 2005, when the Yankees were dissatisfied with the aging Bernie Williams and Tony Womack. Torre told Cashman he would run the idea past Jeter, who was so reliable on pop flies the Yanks believed he could make a Robin Yount -- like transition to center. When the GM later asked Torre what had come of his talk with Jeter, the manager said the captain wanted to stay put. The O'Connor claim is that: Actually, Jeter himself brought up a position change seven years ago in a trainer's room conversation with Gene Michael, telling the longtime executive that he wanted to play another 10 seasons and would be willing to switch to first base or designated hitter to do it. Michael was among the team officials in attendance at the news conference and among the many in Yankeedom thrilled that Jeter, 39, would finish his career right where it started, right where he always belonged. That came from a Ian O'Connor and published by ESPN on 2/19/2014 |
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Post by azbob643 on Jul 29, 2024 21:52:28 GMT -5
Perhaps I simply do not understand. Why believe in a position in which there is no evidence to justify it? Why denigrate Jeter as refusing to move to another position without supporting information? What is the point of holding on to such a position years after his retirement? This is not really about Jeter...I simply held him up as an example of a player who I believe put his self-interest first, which IMO is totally understandable...even justified. And I'm only asking that all players, stars and obscure bench players, be treated and judged by the same standard. So, let me ask you to comment on what you believe to be a hypothetical situation. IF Jeter was asked to move to make room for ARod at SS, what do you think his reaction would've been? |
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Post by rizzuto on Jul 29, 2024 21:53:02 GMT -5
I do not mean to be disrespectful, but please tell me where in the article it says that Cashman ever spoke with Jeter about moving from shortstop, even once? This was a conversation about Jeter improving his lateral movement (at shortstop), which is old news from the O'Connor book, and Jeter worked all off-season to do so: "You mean to tell me we were trying to win a championship every year," Jeter told Cashman, "and there was a way for me to get better to help us do that, and nobody told me?
"I'm only going to play for so many years, and if you're telling me there are things I can do to make us better and put us in a better position to win, why wouldn't someone tell me this? . . . I want to do everything I can to get better. It makes me wonder how good we could've been and how many more championships we might've won if I'd dealt with this."
It was the perfect response. It was the winning response.
It was Jeter revealing the essence of his greatness." There are no page numbers in the webpage but you can do a search and find the following text: The GM could not risk destroying the manager-captain relationship before it ever had a chance. Besides, Cashman had held a few conversations with Torre about moving Jeter to center field as far back as 2005, when the Yankees were dissatisfied with the aging Bernie Williams and Tony Womack. Torre told Cashman he would run the idea past Jeter, who was so reliable on pop flies the Yanks believed he could make a Robin Yount -- like transition to center. When the GM later asked Torre what had come of his talk with Jeter, the manager said the captain wanted to stay put. The O'Connor claim is that: Actually, Jeter himself brought up a position change seven years ago in a trainer's room conversation with Gene Michael, telling the longtime executive that he wanted to play another 10 seasons and would be willing to switch to first base or designated hitter to do it. Michael was among the team officials in attendance at the news conference and among the many in Yankeedom thrilled that Jeter, 39, would finish his career right where it started, right where he always belonged. That came from a Ian O'Connor and published by ESPN on 2/19/2014 Respectfully, I read all of this. Neither in the article nor the except above is there documentation that Jeter refused to move from the shortstop position. Actually, the last paragraph asserts quite the opposite: Supposedly, Jeter was willing to switch to first base or designated hitter to prolong his baseball career. What am I missing? |
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