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Post by inger on Mar 12, 2024 16:07:40 GMT -5
Joe Torre was the first player have both 2,000 hits and over 2,000 games managed as a combo. Torre’s 2,342 H when he played were divided among he playing positions: 903 at C; 787 at 1B; 515 at 3B; & 5 in the OF. He managed 5 teams (NYM, ATL, STL, NYY & LAD), but only had a winning record with the last 2 & only took 1 of them to the postseason. In all, he managed 4,323 MLB games.
Torre was also the NL’s first player/manager in the expansion era when he manager the Mets in 1977.
He was the first member of the HOF to take home a gold glove at catcher…with the then Milwaukee Braves in 1965…
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Post by rizzuto on Mar 12, 2024 16:11:35 GMT -5
Joe Torre was the first player have both 2,000 hits and over 2,000 games managed as a combo. Torre’s 2,342 H when he played were divided among he playing positions: 903 at C; 787 at 1B; 515 at 3B; & 5 in the OF. He managed 5 teams (NYM, ATL, STL, NYY & LAD), but only had a winning record with the last 2 & only took 1 of them to the postseason. In all, he managed 4,323 MLB games. Torre was also the NL’s first player/manager in the expansion era when he manager the Mets in 1977. He was the first member of the HOF to take home a gold glove at catcher…with the then Milwaukee Braves in 1965… None of those 2342 hits were provided by his legs either. Torre was an anti-Ichiro kind of hitter. |
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Post by bomberhojoe on Mar 12, 2024 17:05:05 GMT -5
... check out the stats for Keith Hernandez. He is stride for stride with Donnie in a lot of key areas. I can get on board with Hernandez in the HoF. He was every bit the 1B that Mattingly was with the glove, but IMO he's a good notch below offensively. |
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Post by rizzuto on Mar 12, 2024 17:25:34 GMT -5
... check out the stats for Keith Hernandez. He is stride for stride with Donnie in a lot of key areas. I can get on board with Hernandez in the HoF. He was every bit the 1B that Mattingly was with the glove, but IMO he's a good notch below offensively. Mattingly had more pop and didn't strikeout nearly as often, but Hernandez had a higher OBP. |
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Post by inger on Mar 12, 2024 18:51:14 GMT -5
I can get on board with Hernandez in the HoF. He was every bit the 1B that Mattingly was with the glove, but IMO he's a good notch below offensively. Mattingly had more pop and didn't strikeout nearly as often, but Hernandez had a higher OBP. This is why the brick and mortar HOF is meaningless to me. There’s a HOF in the heart of every fan, and to that fan that’s the real deal… |
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Post by bomberhojoe on Mar 12, 2024 18:56:48 GMT -5
I can get on board with Hernandez in the HoF. He was every bit the 1B that Mattingly was with the glove, but IMO he's a good notch below offensively. Mattingly had more pop and didn't strikeout nearly as often, but Hernandez had a higher OBP. Mattingly was the best player in baseball for about 1/2 a decade. I don't think Hernandez could say the same, as good as he was. |
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Post by pippsheadache on Mar 12, 2024 19:38:26 GMT -5
Mattingly had more pop and didn't strikeout nearly as often, but Hernandez had a higher OBP. Mattingly was the best player in baseball for about 1/2 a decade. I don't think Hernandez could say the same, as good as he was. Definitely. Mattingly for peak value, but I was surprised to see that Hernandez's OBP of .384 was 26 points higher than Donnie's while his OPS+ was nearly identical, 128 to Mattingly's 127. As you said earlier, there's a good case for both of them, but Mattingly's ceiling was clearly higher. |
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Post by inger on Mar 13, 2024 10:09:45 GMT -5
Al Kaline was the first man to appear as a DH that later made the HOF. All but 3 of his 147 games in 1974 were as a DH.
One of 179 MLB players produced by the city of Baltimore.
Babe Ruth (1895), Kaline (1934) & John Schuerholz (1940) are the only Hall of Famers born in Baltimore, Maryland...
Kaline was among the first class of Gold Glove winners when he was the first HOF RF to win a GG in 1957…
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Post by inger on Mar 13, 2024 10:17:30 GMT -5
Mattingly was the best player in baseball for about 1/2 a decade. I don't think Hernandez could say the same, as good as he was. Definitely. Mattingly for peak value, but I was surprised to see that Hernandez's OBP of .384 was 26 points higher than Donnie's while his OPS+ was nearly identical, 128 to Mattingly's 127. As you said earlier, there's a good case for both of them, but Mattingly's ceiling was clearly higher. I like to promote WAR7 as a HOF standard over the counting milestones, which basically encourage lifetime achievement over pure ability… If you isolate Mattingly’s best 7 seasons and Hernandez best the gap widens slightly with Mattingly having a 147+ to Hernandez’ 139+… |
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Post by inger on Mar 13, 2024 10:28:51 GMT -5
Jim Kaat was the first HOF pitcher to win a Gold Glove when he nabbed one in 1962.
The only player to get to Kaat for 10 career homers was Al Kaline.
When Bert Campaneris hit the first MLB pitch he ever saw for a home run, that pitch had been thrown by Kaat, who was also kind enough to serve another gopher pitch to Campy in the 7th inning.
There’s that man Campaneris again…First pitch first AB homer, two homers in his first game… A first game HOFer. He leveled off after that, but still had a fine career…
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Post by inger on Mar 14, 2024 16:30:38 GMT -5
March 1969…The Cards traded future Hall of Famer…..Orlando Cepeda……to The Braves for future Hall of Famer….Joe Torre….
2 Future MLB Cooperstown inductees….one for one…….in their prime of their career…..in a straight up deal…
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Post by 1955nyyfan on Mar 14, 2024 17:45:01 GMT -5
March 1969…The Cards traded future Hall of Famer…..Orlando Cepeda……to The Braves for future Hall of Famer….Joe Torre…. 2 Future MLB Cooperstown inductees….one for one…….in their prime of their career…..in a straight up deal… You don't see many baseball trades anymore. More often they are small market teams dumping salary. Remember when Colavito was traded for Kuenn? Rocky had led the league in HRs and Harvey was the batting champion the year before the deal. |
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Post by inger on Mar 14, 2024 18:38:26 GMT -5
March 1969…The Cards traded future Hall of Famer…..Orlando Cepeda……to The Braves for future Hall of Famer….Joe Torre…. 2 Future MLB Cooperstown inductees….one for one…….in their prime of their career…..in a straight up deal… You don't see many baseball trades anymore. More often they are small market teams dumping salary. Remember when Colavito was traded for Kuenn? Rocky had led the league in HRs and Harvey was the batting champion the year before the deal. The name players are usually tied up in long term deals with no trade clauses… |
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Post by inger on Mar 15, 2024 2:40:07 GMT -5
The first HOF third baseman to procure a gold glove was Brooks Robinson who won in 1960.
Willy Mays was the first to win 12 straight gold gloves, getting #12 in 1968. Clemente tied him in 1970. Broke got his twelfth in succession in 1972 and kept going until he had won 16 in a row, the most by any position player in MLB history (as if pitcher wasn’t a position). It is amazing though that Maddux and Kaat top the list of awardees with 18 and 17 respectively.
Robinson had such a great fielding WS in 1970 that he got a standing ovation after striking out:
He had been called out on strikes in the 8th inning of 5th & final G of the 1970 WS . Returning to the dugout, head hung low, the Oriole faithful rose with a standing ovation for his dream WS.
It’s quite possible that Graig Nettles or Aurelio Rodriguez may have deserved some of those 16 gold gloves, and Nettles had his own glorious WS afield one season, but it’s difficult to mount a case against the ambidextrous Robinson. He was such a nice man and obviously could do a few things in the field most players could only dream of doing…
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Post by bomberhojoe on Mar 15, 2024 7:26:10 GMT -5
The first HOF third baseman to procure a gold glove was Brooks Robinson who won in 1960. Willy Mays was the first to win 12 straight gold gloves, getting #12 in 1968. Clemente tied him in 1970. Broke got his twelfth in succession in 1972 and kept going until he had won 16 in a row, the most by any position player in MLB history (as if pitcher wasn’t a position). It is amazing though that Maddux and Kaat top the list of awardees with 18 and 17 respectively. Robinson had such a great fielding WS in 1970 that he got a standing ovation after striking out: He had been called out on strikes in the 8th inning of 5th & final G of the 1970 WS . Returning to the dugout, head hung low, the Oriole faithful rose with a standing ovation for his dream WS. It’s quite possible that Graig Nettles or Aurelio Rodriguez may have deserved some of those 16 gold gloves, and Nettles had his own glorious WS afield one season, but it’s difficult to mount a case against the ambidextrous Robinson. He was such a nice man and obviously could do a few things in the field most players could only dream of doing… I heard Brooks Robinson say in an interview, that Nettles should have won GG the last 5 years instead of him. He thought he won on reputation in those years. |
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