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Post by chiyankee on Mar 18, 2024 11:27:56 GMT -5
There’s no other sport that I know of (other than boxing, etc.) in which intentionally attempting to injure an opponent is seen as a positive. Hockey can come close at times. I was thinking the same. Star players take cheap shots all the time from 4th liners and all they get at the most is a one or two game suspension. |
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Post by Max on Mar 18, 2024 13:44:32 GMT -5
Mantle was quoted as saying that Drysdale was just plain mean. He said he hit him in the arm with a pitch, I think in spring training. The next day Drysdale walked up to him, punched him in the arm where the ball had hit him and said “Hurts, doesn’t it?”… Plus, he was a Dodger...and the '63 World Series was where my "dislike" for him and the team really began. Wasn't crazy about Pepitone either. I met Pepitone in a nightclub many, many, maaany years ago. I asked him Joe if you don't mind can I have your autograph? He replied "Absolutely, I'm honored by anyone that still remembers me and asks me for my autograph." He also took a few minutes to talk to me, asked where I was from and talked about baseball with me. He had a big smile on his face when I told him I was an Italian American from Brooklyn, just like he was. I found him to be an extremely nice guy. |
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Post by Max on Mar 18, 2024 13:47:36 GMT -5
There’s no other sport that I know of (other than boxing, etc.) in which intentionally attempting to injure an opponent is seen as a positive. Hockey can come close at times. I agree. Rough playing/bullying, fights, can sometimes change the momentum of an NHL game. |
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Post by Max on Mar 18, 2024 13:51:50 GMT -5
I've read articles where old players from earlier eras thought that a major league batter should be able to get his head out of the way of any pitch. I don't agree with that thnking, but I do accept that is how many players thought. After Tony C. it seems that attitudes changed. Nothing wrong with pitching inside, but there's absolutely no justification for intentionally throwing at a batter. I agree. Pitching inside is one thing, but a pitcher purposely throwing at a batter's head is crossing the line. |
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Post by Max on Mar 18, 2024 13:54:39 GMT -5
Hockey can come close at times. I was thinking the same. Star players take cheap shots all the time from 4th liners and all they get at the most is a one or two game suspension. That's not all they would get if a player like Clark Gillis was on the ice. |
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Post by azbob643 on Mar 18, 2024 13:56:46 GMT -5
Plus, he was a Dodger...and the '63 World Series was where my "dislike" for him and the team really began. Wasn't crazy about Pepitone either. I met Pepitone in a nightclub many, many, maaany years ago. I asked him Joe if you don't mind can I have your autograph? He replied "Absolutely, I'm honored by anyone that still remembers me and asks me for my autograph." He also took a few minutes to talk to me, asked where I was from and talked about baseball with me. He had a big smile on his face when I told him I was an Italian American from Brooklyn, just like he was. I found him to be an extremely nice guy. I didn't mean to suggest I didn't like Pepitone...just jokingly referred to his costly error in Game 4 of '63 WS. |
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Post by pippsheadache on Mar 18, 2024 14:43:17 GMT -5
I met Pepitone in a nightclub many, many, maaany years ago. I asked him Joe if you don't mind can I have your autograph? He replied "Absolutely, I'm honored by anyone that still remembers me and asks me for my autograph." He also took a few minutes to talk to me, asked where I was from and talked about baseball with me. He had a big smile on his face when I told him I was an Italian American from Brooklyn, just like he was. I found him to be an extremely nice guy. I didn't mean to suggest I didn't like Pepitone...just jokingly referred to his costly error in Game 4 of '63 WS. Wasn't that the ball he lost in the white shirts? At least that was the story at the time. No way the Yanks were winning that Series. They were just overmatched by Koufax and Drysdale. It was so frustrating to watch -- they were defending champs at the time, having defeated an outstanding Giants team the year before. |
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Post by pippsheadache on Mar 18, 2024 14:46:46 GMT -5
Plus, he was a Dodger...and the '63 World Series was where my "dislike" for him and the team really began. Wasn't crazy about Pepitone either. I met Pepitone in a nightclub many, many, maaany years ago. I asked him Joe if you don't mind can I have your autograph? He replied "Absolutely, I'm honored by anyone that still remembers me and asks me for my autograph." He also took a few minutes to talk to me, asked where I was from and talked about baseball with me. He had a big smile on his face when I told him I was an Italian American from Brooklyn, just like he was. I found him to be an extremely nice guy. Pepi mellowed over the years. He was a bit full of himself when he first came up with the Yankees, taunting Moose Skowron about how he was going to take his job. That didn't go over well with the veteran players who were close to Moose. But I think once the wiseguy act faded away, he turned out to be a good guy. A very dear friend of mine used to go to Yankee fantasy camps back in the 80s and he said Pepitone was one of the favorites of all the participants. |
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Post by azbob643 on Mar 18, 2024 14:47:39 GMT -5
I didn't mean to suggest I didn't like Pepitone...just jokingly referred to his costly error in Game 4 of '63 WS. Wasn't that the ball he lost in the white shirts? At least that was the story at the time. No way the Yanks were winning that Series. They were just overmatched by Koufax and Drysdale. It was so frustrating to watch -- they were defending champs at the time, having defeated an outstanding Giants team the year before. Yep...and yes, no way they would win regardless, but he (Pepi) was made the scapegoat. I remember the Daily News sports cartoonist Bill Gallo had a hero/goat award...pretty sure it was Pepitone for that game. |
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Post by pippsheadache on Mar 18, 2024 14:56:16 GMT -5
Walter Johnson is the only modern era pitcher with over 200 hit batters (205). Eddie Plank and Randy Johnson had 190 to tie for second. It’s often stated that Johnson won 38 games by a 1-0 score. He’s 38-27 in 1-0 games in total. Eight of his twelve strikeout crowns came in consecutive seasons… Won the AL K crown 1912-1919. His career ERA is 2.17, a 147 ERA+ in his era…(deadball)… Walter Johnson was as gentle of a soul who ever toed the rubber, and I always used to read how he was so afraid of hitting a batter because of how hard he threw. Of course on a per inning basis his number isn't so high -- he threw nearly 6,000 innings. Interesting that of the top three you listed, both Walter Johnson and Eddie Plank threw sidearm and Randy Johnson was also a bit low on delivery, somewhere between sidearm and three-quarters. So the pitch was probably harder to pick up. |
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Post by pippsheadache on Mar 18, 2024 14:57:50 GMT -5
Wasn't that the ball he lost in the white shirts? At least that was the story at the time. No way the Yanks were winning that Series. They were just overmatched by Koufax and Drysdale. It was so frustrating to watch -- they were defending champs at the time, having defeated an outstanding Giants team the year before. Yep...and yes, no way they would win regardless, but he (Pepi) was made the scapegoat. I remember the Daily News sports cartoonist Bill Gallo had a hero/goat award...pretty sure it was Pepitone for that game. Hah, Bill Gallo. His cartoons were pretty vivid. They were regularly carried in our local Wilmington DE paper. |
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Post by pippsheadache on Mar 18, 2024 15:04:58 GMT -5
But...Gibson & Drysdale were hit only 8-5 times respectively. Clemens, another headhunter, was hit only twice when he was with Houston (NL). I've read articles where old players from earlier eras thought that a major league batter should be able to get his head out of the way of any pitch. I don't agree with that thnking, but I do accept that is how many players thought. After Tony C. it seems that attitudes changed. The Tony C case was just tragic. It's interesting how similar it was to the case of Ray Chapman, who was famously killed by a pitch from Carl Mays. Both Chappie and Tony were known for crowding the plate. In both instances, neither of them moved at all as the pitch came at them. Just frozen. Where they differ is that Mays was already known as a headhunter with a nasty disposition, and he thew submarine style with a darkened baseball on an overcast day. Even though he was forever vilified by Red Sox fans, Jack Hamilton was not a pitcher who routinely threw at hitters. It was simply an accident. |
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Post by inger on Mar 18, 2024 15:13:17 GMT -5
I've read articles where old players from earlier eras thought that a major league batter should be able to get his head out of the way of any pitch. I don't agree with that thnking, but I do accept that is how many players thought. After Tony C. it seems that attitudes changed. The Tony C case was just tragic. It's interesting how similar it was to the case of Ray Chapman, who was famously killed by a pitch from Carl Mays. Both Chappie and Tony were known for crowding the plate. In both instances, neither of them moved at all as the pitch came at them. Just frozen. Where they differ is that Mays was already known as a headhunter with a nasty disposition, and he thew submarine style with a darkened baseball on an overcast day. Even though he was forever vilified by Red Sox fans, Jack Hamilton was not a pitcher who routinely threw at hitters. It was simply an accident. I was crowding the plate so closely that once the batters box was obliterated (which I helped with), my toes would be almost on the plate. If I was ever HBP, I don’t recall it. That ornery cuss young inger. What DIDN’T he do on the ball field? … |
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Post by azbob643 on Mar 18, 2024 15:13:17 GMT -5
Walter Johnson is the only modern era pitcher with over 200 hit batters (205). Eddie Plank and Randy Johnson had 190 to tie for second. It’s often stated that Johnson won 38 games by a 1-0 score. He’s 38-27 in 1-0 games in total. Eight of his twelve strikeout crowns came in consecutive seasons… Won the AL K crown 1912-1919. His career ERA is 2.17, a 147 ERA+ in his era…(deadball)… Walter Johnson was as gentle of a soul who ever toed the rubber, and I always used to read how he was so afraid of hitting a batter because of how hard he threw. Of course on a per inning basis his number isn't so high -- he threw nearly 6,000 innings. Interesting that of the top three you listed, both Walter Johnson and Eddie Plank threw sidearm and Randy Johnson was also a bit low on delivery, somewhere between sidearm and three-quarters. So the pitch was probably harder to pick up. Saw a documentary "Fastball" I believe on Netflix. Started with Walter "Big Train" Johnson thru Nolan Ryan who I believe was deemed to have the top recorded speed. |
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Post by inger on Mar 18, 2024 15:17:27 GMT -5
Walter Johnson was as gentle of a soul who ever toed the rubber, and I always used to read how he was so afraid of hitting a batter because of how hard he threw. Of course on a per inning basis his number isn't so high -- he threw nearly 6,000 innings. Interesting that of the top three you listed, both Walter Johnson and Eddie Plank threw sidearm and Randy Johnson was also a bit low on delivery, somewhere between sidearm and three-quarters. So the pitch was probably harder to pick up. Saw a documentary "Fastball" I believe on Netflix. Started with Walter "Big Train" Johnson thru Nolan Ryan who I believe was deemed to have the top recorded speed. Bruce Springsteen would have titled it “Speedball.”… |
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