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Post by pippsheadache on Jul 28, 2023 11:22:09 GMT -5
too much hype for Ohtani, put him in the AL East and lets see his numbers. He one-hit the Tigers like German no hit the A's. I'm not a Ohtani fan. Even if all he did was DH, I could certainly find room for him in my lineup. Against the AL East, his OBP is .368 against Baltimore, .300 against Boston, .500 against the Yankees and .500 against Toronto. He hasn't faced Tampa Bay yet. Small sample sizes for sure, but it doesn't appear he's been overmatched. He's only had two starts against AL East opponents and true he has not done well -- six ER in nine innings, mainly due to Baltimore lighting him up for five in seven innings. However, he has done even worse against the NL Central -- five ER in 6 1/3 against Pittsburgh and four ER in five against St. Louis. So maybe the NL Central is actually the toughest division in baseball. Who knew? |
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Post by pippsheadache on Jul 28, 2023 11:32:04 GMT -5
I’m with pipps on this one. Ohtani is something special: one of the best hitters and pitchers in the league simultaneously a feat that hasn’t been done since Ruth. Plus he seems humble, an easy guy to root for. I only get annoyed by the fact that he wants to stay on the west coast and doesn’t want to come to the Yankees. I definitely don't want to set myself up as President of the Ohtani Fan Club. To be honest, when he first signed up and I heard all the hype, I was actually hoping he would fall flat on his face. I kept this up for a couple of years, but my lying eyes keep telling me that this guy is something unique. I don't want it to be that way, believe me, and it's okay with me if he circles the drain for the rest of the year. I just find it hard to work up a good hate on him. Or Trout for that matter. They both seem like decent guys. Although I find it easy to have contempt for the Angels in a general sense because like the Padres and Mets they always find ways to blow it no matter what big names they sign. It would never happen, but if somehow the Yankees could sign him I can't imagine many Yankee fans wouldn't be overjoyed at the prospect. But even though the Yankees revived their season with that sweep, I still hope they fail again to make the post-season. Preferably by one game on the final game of the season. Along with Toronto and Boston. |
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Post by anthonyd46 on Jul 28, 2023 11:33:34 GMT -5
I just get annoyed at the "greatest season ever argument" when you have seasons like Ted Williams .400, 30 win pitchers, and Barry bonds 2001-2004 existing. Sure what Ohtani is doing is amazing but the stats of all the players I just mentioned are way better than anything ohtani has put up this far. Plus a lot of these guys had to do that while also playing a position every game. Their numbers would prob be even better if they could DH like Ohtani does. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Well we can certainly agree that "greatest season ever" would be a stretch at this point, Anthony. Just looking at position player WAR for a single season, the top three seasons all belong to the same guy, Babe Ruth. He put up 14.1 in 1923, 12.9 in 1921 and 12.6 in 1927. In fact six of the top thirteen single-season WAR totals for position players are held by Ruth. So when you're looking for all-time anything, you always start with The Sultan of Swat. Number four BTW might surprise some people -- Carl Yastrzemski's 12.4 in 1967. Not a total shock to me -- I remember it well, and I do not believe I have ever seen one player carry a pennant-winning team single-handedly the way Yaz did in that year. Of course I have no doubt that Babe in 21 and 23 did the same for the Yankees -- until Gehrig and Lazzeri and later Dickey came along in the mid-20s, Ruth was almost the whole show for the first Yankee pennant winners. As of today, Ohtani has a 7.5 WAR as a position player, so it seems unlikely that he could match Babe's 1923. However, he also has a 2.8 WAR as a pitcher, putting him at 10.3 with not quite 2/3 of the season over. He could blow his arm out tomorrow and it would all be over, but if he didn't play another game this year his total WAR would be tied for 44th with Ruth's 1930 and Sosa's (cough cough) 2001. BTW Bonds and his little helpers had two years in the top 20 -- his 2001 ties Babe for sixth at 11.9 and his 2002 ranks ninth at 11.7. These two seasons came when he was 36 and 37 years old. The only non-Bonds seasons in the top 100 where a player was over 34 belong to Ruth -- he is tied for 29th with 10.5 at his age 36 season and tied for 44th at 10.3 in his age 35 season. Bonds's top three seasons came at ages 36, 37 and 39. Make of that what you will. This is a great point. When you go down the numbers season that pass the eye test like Bond's 2001 still is not even top 5 for WAR. So thats why I can't call Ohtani or even Judge's season last year in consideration for best ever when it doesn't even crack the top 10 when you really look into it numbers wise. |
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Post by pippsheadache on Jul 28, 2023 11:37:06 GMT -5
Well we can certainly agree that "greatest season ever" would be a stretch at this point, Anthony. Just looking at position player WAR for a single season, the top three seasons all belong to the same guy, Babe Ruth. He put up 14.1 in 1923, 12.9 in 1921 and 12.6 in 1927. In fact six of the top thirteen single-season WAR totals for position players are held by Ruth. So when you're looking for all-time anything, you always start with The Sultan of Swat. Number four BTW might surprise some people -- Carl Yastrzemski's 12.4 in 1967. Not a total shock to me -- I remember it well, and I do not believe I have ever seen one player carry a pennant-winning team single-handedly the way Yaz did in that year. Of course I have no doubt that Babe in 21 and 23 did the same for the Yankees -- until Gehrig and Lazzeri and later Dickey came along in the mid-20s, Ruth was almost the whole show for the first Yankee pennant winners. As of today, Ohtani has a 7.5 WAR as a position player, so it seems unlikely that he could match Babe's 1923. However, he also has a 2.8 WAR as a pitcher, putting him at 10.3 with not quite 2/3 of the season over. He could blow his arm out tomorrow and it would all be over, but if he didn't play another game this year his total WAR would be tied for 44th with Ruth's 1930 and Sosa's (cough cough) 2001. BTW Bonds and his little helpers had two years in the top 20 -- his 2001 ties Babe for sixth at 11.9 and his 2002 ranks ninth at 11.7. These two seasons came when he was 36 and 37 years old. The only non-Bonds seasons in the top 100 where a player was over 34 belong to Ruth -- he is tied for 29th with 10.5 at his age 36 season and tied for 44th at 10.3 in his age 35 season. Bonds's top three seasons came at ages 36, 37 and 39. Make of that what you will. This is a great point. When you go down the numbers season that pass the eye test like Bond's 2001 still is not even top 5 for WAR. So thats why I can't call Ohtani or even Judge's season last year in consideration for best ever when it doesn't even crack the top 10 when you really look into it numbers wise. He ain't catching The Babe, anthony!  |
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Post by inger on Jul 28, 2023 12:08:12 GMT -5
There’s a bit too much sideshow to the Ohtani show, which is my only complaint. That’s the press, not Ohtani, so I can’t hate on him for that.
It’s a special accomplishment though there are quite a few dead ball guys that played a position and pitched that don’t get much love because dead ball batting numbers were not attractive to look at. Admittedly most of those guys seemed to be so lousy that I sometimes wonder why they were allowed to do either.
I have little doubt that if there had been a DH available that Ruth might have pitched longer into his career and racked up bigger numbers as a pitcher, and in those days I wouldn’t be surprised I’d he didn’t play nearly every game in so doing. No work load management in those days.
Ohtani is a special show that we should enjoy while it lasts because like all shows it must one day end. We needn’t have the three ring circus of the press hammering down every single point with superlatives, deserved or not. That’s the way of the press…
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Post by anthonyd46 on Jul 28, 2023 13:47:25 GMT -5
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by desousa on Jul 28, 2023 14:23:43 GMT -5
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Trade him already! The way the Yankees treat their legitimate prospects is horrible. |
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Post by acuraman on Jul 28, 2023 14:35:33 GMT -5
too much hype for Ohtani, put him in the AL East and lets see his numbers. He one-hit the Tigers like German no hit the A's. I'm not a Ohtani fan. Even if all he did was DH, I could certainly find room for him in my lineup. Against the AL East, his OBP is .368 against Baltimore, .300 against Boston, .500 against the Yankees and .500 against Toronto. He hasn't faced Tampa Bay yet. Small sample sizes for sure, but it doesn't appear he's been overmatched. He's only had two starts against AL East opponents and true he has not done well -- six ER in nine innings, mainly due to Baltimore lighting him up for five in seven innings. However, he has done even worse against the NL Central -- five ER in 6 1/3 against Pittsburgh and four ER in five against St. Louis. So maybe the NL Central is actually the toughest division in baseball. Who knew? Pipps - he can join my lineup any day, I agree. I get it, he's a two way player who is doing great things, but the circus about him is too much for me. |
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Post by acuraman on Jul 28, 2023 14:35:44 GMT -5
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Post by acuraman on Jul 28, 2023 14:39:45 GMT -5
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Post by chiyankee on Jul 28, 2023 19:01:22 GMT -5
I’m with pipps on this one. Ohtani is something special: one of the best hitters and pitchers in the league simultaneously a feat that hasn’t been done since Ruth. Plus he seems humble, an easy guy to root for. I only get annoyed by the fact that he wants to stay on the west coast and doesn’t want to come to the Yankees. I definitely don't want to set myself up as President of the Ohtani Fan Club. To be honest, when he first signed up and I heard all the hype, I was actually hoping he would fall flat on his face. I kept this up for a couple of years, but my lying eyes keep telling me that this guy is something unique. I don't want it to be that way, believe me, and it's okay with me if he circles the drain for the rest of the year. I just find it hard to work up a good hate on him. Or Trout for that matter. They both seem like decent guys. Although I find it easy to have contempt for the Angels in a general sense because like the Padres and Mets they always find ways to blow it no matter what big names they sign. It would never happen, but if somehow the Yankees could sign him I can't imagine many Yankee fans wouldn't be overjoyed at the prospect. But even though the Yankees revived their season with that sweep, I still hope they fail again to make the post-season. Preferably by one game on the final game of the season. Along with Toronto and Boston. It only took Ohtani until the first inning to tack on a HR against the Blue Jays, he now has 39 HR and homers in three consecutive at bats. |
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Post by inger on Jul 28, 2023 20:03:04 GMT -5
I definitely don't want to set myself up as President of the Ohtani Fan Club. To be honest, when he first signed up and I heard all the hype, I was actually hoping he would fall flat on his face. I kept this up for a couple of years, but my lying eyes keep telling me that this guy is something unique. I don't want it to be that way, believe me, and it's okay with me if he circles the drain for the rest of the year. I just find it hard to work up a good hate on him. Or Trout for that matter. They both seem like decent guys. Although I find it easy to have contempt for the Angels in a general sense because like the Padres and Mets they always find ways to blow it no matter what big names they sign. It would never happen, but if somehow the Yankees could sign him I can't imagine many Yankee fans wouldn't be overjoyed at the prospect. But even though the Yankees revived their season with that sweep, I still hope they fail again to make the post-season. Preferably by one game on the final game of the season. Along with Toronto and Boston. It only took Ohtani until the first inning to tack on a HR against the Blue Jays, he now has 39 HR and homers in three consecutive at bats. If he was on a better team he might get the BBonds treatment and get walked a LOT… |
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Post by chiyankee on Jul 28, 2023 20:15:08 GMT -5
It only took Ohtani until the first inning to tack on a HR against the Blue Jays, he now has 39 HR and homers in three consecutive at bats. If he was on a better team he might get the BBonds treatment and get walked a LOT… The Blue Jays need to win games too, they know the Yankees are right behind them and are getting Judge back. |
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Post by chiyankee on Jul 28, 2023 23:36:17 GMT -5
It only took Ohtani until the first inning to tack on a HR against the Blue Jays, he now has 39 HR and homers in three consecutive at bats. If he was on a better team he might get the BBonds treatment and get walked a LOT… Maybe teams should start giving him the Judge treatment. |
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Post by anthonyd46 on Jul 28, 2023 23:57:55 GMT -5
If he was on a better team he might get the BBonds treatment and get walked a LOT… The Blue Jays need to win games too, they know the Yankees are right behind them and are getting Judge back. Kind of interesting that like Ohtani bonds didn't play too many playoff games either. While Ohtani so far has not been there Bonds went only 7 times in a 22 year career. Only one time did any of his teams win a series and that was in 2002 when they went to the World Series. Other than that 1990, 1991, 1992, 1997, 2000, 2003 all lost the first series they played. |
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