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Post by ypaterson on Mar 26, 2024 10:07:36 GMT -5
Am I the only person amused that ESPN broke the sports betting story on Ohtani..and then went to a commercial for ESPB Bets ( espnbet.com/ ) afterwards ? Like the George Carlin depiction of the sign on the church: Thursday night: Sermon on the evils of gambling Friday night: Bingo! … We addressed that issue at my parrish in Paterson ! The game was fixed so it could not be considered gambling ! |
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Post by nw on Mar 26, 2024 13:27:08 GMT -5
The only thing I can say in retort is Masahiro Tanaka. There are exceptions to every rule. I think it’s worth the chance to do a wait and see first. Cole is not a young pitcher anymore. Missing a season could be a waste of what time that power arm has left. I was thinking about the mileage on his arm last season and the odds against continued health, but I was reticent to say anything for having it come true. It did anyway… I should have just said it… Tanaka's best season was his rookie season before the injury ... he was dominant with a low 2 era up to that point ... He was a good pitcher after the injury ~ 4 era the rest of his Yankee career but far from dominant. Would he have regained dominance if he had had the surgery ??? We'll never know. But we dont need Cole to pitch to a 4 ERA the rest of his contract And if we wait and see if cole needs surgery and he does ... we lose another 2-3 months in 2025 The difference between Tanaka's injury and Cole's injury is that Tanaka had a grade 1 tear, while the information we've received so far is that Cole has no tear. A grade 1 tear is something that most of us would call a strain or sprain. Assuming most of us don't throw a baseball at 90+ mph for a career, rest is usually the answer. We might feel a little soreness after a grade 1 tear for life, but for the most part, it won't affect us. Unfortunately, in Tanaka's case, I imagine that little "soreness" likely changed his pitching ever-so-slightly either to protect against injury or the residual soreness. If it is true what the 2 doctors have said that there "is no tear" in Cole's arm, it's a different issue than Tanaka's. If there's no tear, the other frontrunner for the cause of discomfort is inflammation. The cure for inflammation is also rest. Unfortunately, with inflammation, there is a possibility that it may mask a tear and repeat imaging after rest may reveal a tear. Qwik's mention of not believing injury reports is partly rooted in the fact that initial imaging may not show a true injury because of inflammation. The experts in the field will look at inflammation patterns and sometimes make predictions and assumptions based on the injury pattern. I think that wording is important here. Two expert doctors have independently said there "is no tear". That's a lot different than saying "imaging doesn't reveal a tear". In the latter statement, the doctors have left an "out" in case repeat imaging reveals a tear. For the doctors to say affirmatively that there is not tear, the MRI must be conclusive. The problem is that even without a tear, inflammation can end up being chronic and threaten Cole's career. Inflammation that recurs can also eventually cause a tear that isn't currently present. That's the whole reason that "preemptive surgery" is even an option. |
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Post by qimqam on Mar 26, 2024 14:54:29 GMT -5
Tanaka's best season was his rookie season before the injury ... he was dominant with a low 2 era up to that point ... He was a good pitcher after the injury ~ 4 era the rest of his Yankee career but far from dominant. Would he have regained dominance if he had had the surgery ??? We'll never know. But we dont need Cole to pitch to a 4 ERA the rest of his contract And if we wait and see if cole needs surgery and he does ... we lose another 2-3 months in 2025 The difference between Tanaka's injury and Cole's injury is that Tanaka had a grade 1 tear, while the information we've received so far is that Cole has no tear. A grade 1 tear is something that most of us would call a strain or sprain. Assuming most of us don't throw a baseball at 90+ mph for a career, rest is usually the answer. We might feel a little soreness after a grade 1 tear for life, but for the most part, it won't affect us. Unfortunately, in Tanaka's case, I imagine that little "soreness" likely changed his pitching ever-so-slightly either to protect against injury or the residual soreness. If it is true what the 2 doctors have said that there "is no tear" in Cole's arm, it's a different issue than Tanaka's. If there's no tear, the other frontrunner for the cause of discomfort is inflammation. The cure for inflammation is also rest. Unfortunately, with inflammation, there is a possibility that it may mask a tear and repeat imaging after rest may reveal a tear. Qwik's mention of not believing injury reports is partly rooted in the fact that initial imaging may not show a true injury because of inflammation. The experts in the field will look at inflammation patterns and sometimes make predictions and assumptions based on the injury pattern. I think that wording is important here. Two expert doctors have independently said there "is no tear". That's a lot different than saying "imaging doesn't reveal a tear". In the latter statement, the doctors have left an "out" in case repeat imaging reveals a tear. For the doctors to say affirmatively that there is not tear, the MRI must be conclusive. The problem is that even without a tear, inflammation can end up being chronic and threaten Cole's career. Inflammation that recurs can also eventually cause a tear that isn't currently present. That's the whole reason that "preemptive surgery" is even an option. Inflammation is not a thing by itself ... it's a response to an inury (or infection) Inflammation is the body's natural response to injury
or infection. It occurs when the body releases chemicals that trigger an immune response
to fight off infection or heal damaged tissue.
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Post by Max on Mar 26, 2024 15:00:38 GMT -5
Not counting his rookie season Tanaka had a 3.88 ERA for the Yankees. That 3.88 ERA is lower than Pettitte's, Wells, and Clemens Yankee career ERA.
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Post by qimqam on Mar 26, 2024 15:07:21 GMT -5
Not counting his rookie season Tanaka had a 3.88 ERA for the Yankees. That 3.88 ERA is lower than Pettitte's, Wells, and Clemens Yankee career ERA. ... and more than a run higher than his rookie season (pre injury) |
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Post by Max on Mar 26, 2024 15:14:15 GMT -5
Not counting his rookie season Tanaka had a 3.88 ERA for the Yankees. That 3.88 ERA is lower than Pettitte's, Wells, and Clemens Yankee career ERA. ... and more than a run higher than his rookie season (pre injury)
As I said earlier in the thread, that could also be the product of MLB hitters seeing him pitch more. That's why I try not to judge a player's talent by only his first season in MLB.
Also mentioned earlier in this thread...In 2017 and 2018 he had a higher K% than he did in 2014. In 2015 his WHIP was better than his WHIP in his 2014 season. Except for the shortened covid season, Tanaka made more starts and pitched more innings than he did in 2014.
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Post by qimqam on Mar 26, 2024 15:26:28 GMT -5
... and more than a run higher than his rookie season (pre injury)
As I said earlier in the thread, that could also be the product of MLB hitters seeing him pitch more. That's why I try not to judge a player's talent by only his first season in MLB.
Also mentioned earlier in this thread...In 2017 and 2018 he had a higher K% than he did in 2014. In 2015 his WHIP was better than his WHIP in his 2014 season. Except for the shortened covid season, Tanaka made more starts and pitched more innings than he did in 2014.
Well He said himself that his velocity was down after the injury and that he reinvented himself. He threw a lot less fastballs after the injury He was also 25 when he got injured Cole is 33 |
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Post by Max on Mar 26, 2024 16:14:28 GMT -5
As I said earlier in the thread, that could also be the product of MLB hitters seeing him pitch more. That's why I try not to judge a player's talent by only his first season in MLB.
Also mentioned earlier in this thread...In 2017 and 2018 he had a higher K% than he did in 2014. In 2015 his WHIP was better than his WHIP in his 2014 season. Except for the shortened covid season, Tanaka made more starts and pitched more innings than he did in 2014.
Well He said himself that his velocity was down after the injury and that he reinvented himself. He threw a lot less fastballs after the injury He was also 25 when he got injured Cole is 33
Hey, maybe I'm wrong. I can't say for sure why Tanaka's ERA went up. But I never expected Tanaka to have anything close to a 2.77 career ERA.
Cole is 33 years old, but unlike Tanaka, Cole doesn't have a tear.
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Post by qwik3457bb on Mar 26, 2024 19:22:31 GMT -5
Not counting his rookie season Tanaka had a 3.88 ERA for the Yankees. That 3.88 ERA is lower than Pettitte's, Wells, and Clemens Yankee career ERA. True, but in context, the league run environment for all three of them was considerably higher back when the three of them pitched for the Dynasty teams, especially in the years from about 1995-2004. The unchecked steroid era was the highest scoring era in baseball history, except for the Ruth-led HR revoiution era of 1925-1939 or so. |
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Post by rizzuto on Mar 26, 2024 19:26:08 GMT -5
As I said earlier in the thread, that could also be the product of MLB hitters seeing him pitch more. That's why I try not to judge a player's talent by only his first season in MLB.
Also mentioned earlier in this thread...In 2017 and 2018 he had a higher K% than he did in 2014. In 2015 his WHIP was better than his WHIP in his 2014 season. Except for the shortened covid season, Tanaka made more starts and pitched more innings than he did in 2014.
Well He said himself that his velocity was down after the injury and that he reinvented himself. He threw a lot less fastballs after the injury He was also 25 when he got injured Cole is 33 Tanaka essentially ditched his four-seam fastball for a two-seamer and began using his slider as an out-pitch and not just his splitter. Tanaka was a bulldog, fundamentally sound, and kept the Yankees within striking distance. When he had three pitches working, the opposition was going to get dominated. Really enjoyed watching him pitch. To me, Tanaka's split was never the same after the UCL tear - it was still good, but not devastating. Before the tear, he could command that pitch to both sides of the plate and up and down. Tanaka's fastball was never going to be the weapon it was in Japan: bigger ball, harder to fashion a grip, and better fastball hitters in MLB. Melky took him deep off the fastball the first MLB batter Tanaka faced. |
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