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Post by hawaiiyankee on May 30, 2018 15:47:03 GMT -5
I know that Giancarlo was the MVP last year but doesn't JD Martinez seem like the better player. I know this is in hindsight, but I felt this way even before the trade. I was thinking why don't they try and sign JD Martinez instead of bringing in Stanton. Just looking at his past stats, Martinez seemed like the better player and less strikeouts. Seems like the smarter move would've been to go after Martinez instead and maybe Boston wouldn't have him right now.
I like those guys who don't strikeout as much like Betts, Altuve, and Jose Ramirez rather than Bryce Harper, Judge, and Manny Machado. They seem to come through better during the post season. These superstars seem like they have the chance to go into slumps like Arod did for us.
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Post by kaybli on May 30, 2018 18:02:52 GMT -5
Well right now, JD looks like the better player but its only late May and things can change. Their career strikeout numbers are pretty close. JD strikes out at 25.2 percent of his plate appearances while Stanton at 27.9. Stanton is two years younger. Stanton has the better career OPS, .909 to .868. JDs contract is more reasonable but he can opt out after 2019, 2020, or 2021 while Stanton only has one opt out after 2020.
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Post by hawaiiyankee on May 30, 2018 19:32:49 GMT -5
I haven't looked closely at the numbers but hasn't JD improved his strikeout rate in the past 3 years or so? Early on in his career he struck out a lot. Similar to what Stanton has been doing throughout his career but at least Martinez has improved as the years have gone on. I like his batting average recently as well. Stanton takes a lot of walks with his strikeouts so that's good and his OBP reflects that but I like how consistent Martinez is. Stanton is up and down throughout his career. Not sure what Stanton you're getting.
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Post by kaybli on May 30, 2018 21:22:11 GMT -5
I haven't looked closely at the numbers but hasn't JD improved his strikeout rate in the past 3 years or so? His strikeout rate from 2015-2017 is 26.1 percent of plate appearances. |
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Post by inger on May 30, 2018 22:34:05 GMT -5
Well, it's spilled milk now...But, when the Yankees got Stanton...Martinez was a free-agent coming off a strong three-season run with the bat and dreaming of HUGE dollars. That was December...As I recall, he started out talking about a $30M per year contract, which is more than Stanton makes. I think the price mattered to the Yankees, who were aiming to get below the luxury tax threshold for the year, so when Stanton became available, and the centerpiece of the deal was surprisingly, Starlin Castro, whom the Yankees were looking to move...It was an irresistible deal. (and in the end, Martinez still got almost $24M per year from the Red Sox)...
Yes, Hawaii. I do agree that Martinez is the better hitter at this point in their careers, though his defensive reputation is of lesser quality, and he's pretty much a station to station runner who has virtually no base-stealing ability at all. In fact, his foot speed is likely the primary reason that he's DH'd more than he's played in the OF to date this season. (Stanton is about 50/50, but I feel that to be more because the Yankees have better defenders available in the corners than Stanton's foot speed...Z(Stanton doesn't steal bases, either...but he's much faster than you would expect him to be with those long strides).
So far this season, in almost an equal number of AB's Stanton has fanned 70 times and walked 19 times, while Martinez has fanned 55 times and walked 19 times...so the strike out issues comes down to 15 more strike outs for Stanton at the 1/3 point of the season.
All in all, after analyzing the issue, I would say the Yankees made the correct choice. Whether we like it or not, money played a big role in that choice. But I do "get" your theme about contact hitting, and don't understand fully why the strikeout has become so accepted within the sport. I was just lamenting the other day elsewhere on this site that when Charlie Keller lead the AL in K's with 101 in 1946, he became the first Yankee to fan over 100 times. Look where we are now. Players that strike out "only" 100 times are now referred to as contact hitters. I would have been so ashamed of myself if I had done a lot of striking out when I played... These guys don't seem to mind...But I feel it's largely imaginary that any particular kind of player comes through better in the playoffs. Some of the all time greats have had horrible post seasons and also great post seasons in different years. We just notice things more in the post season, and I think sluggers get more grief when they slump from the press, just like they get more glory when they hit HRs in big spots...Some things are just hard to explain...
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Post by michcusejoe5 on May 31, 2018 12:05:48 GMT -5
The Yankees really didnt give up much to get Stanton so I have been starting to think...should they try to trade him over the offseason and sign Harper (if they dont have the appetite for both on the roster at once)?
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Post by inger on May 31, 2018 14:29:31 GMT -5
Harper still seems like a strange bird to me. Hitting .238 and only 6 doubles to go with those whopping 18 HR. One year, he hit's .330, then .240, then .319, now .238. Always gets his BB and his HR. Can he accept playing in NY and maybe not being THE star attraction in town? He just seems to be such an attention whore to me...
Stanton's up and down career has featured BAs from .240 to .290, and he doesn't take near as many BB, though normally he takes a decent number...Career log right now shows Stanton .908 OPS+, Harper .904 OPS+...Both have spotty injury history...It's not an easy choice, really...I'm going to give some thought to who ELSE the Yankees might be able to add to the roster that carries a left handed bat that could be a difference maker...whether or not we keep Stanton...but if Bird is indeed back and healthy, it may not be that important...thinking...thinking...all right, have to go back to work for now, but this isn't over yet for me...
As for right now, I've been listening to Paulie on the game broadcasts, and I'm not sure that Stanton's current closed set up with his ass poked out about foot behind his shoulders is doing him any good. I think he's envisioning shooting the ball into the RCF porch where so many have in the past, but I think he can also pull the ball and get it out of any park in MLB, so I'd like to see him more square at the plate and ready for any pitch anywhere. He seems to be chasing a lot of outside stuff and not able to square up the inside fastball right now...maybe because he's not seeing it as well as he should???
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Post by hawaiiyankee on Jun 1, 2018 14:39:58 GMT -5
Well, it's spilled milk now...But, when the Yankees got Stanton...Martinez was a free-agent coming off a strong three-season run with the bat and dreaming of HUGE dollars. That was December...As I recall, he started out talking about a $30M per year contract, which is more than Stanton makes. I think the price mattered to the Yankees, who were aiming to get below the luxury tax threshold for the year, so when Stanton became available, and the centerpiece of the deal was surprisingly, Starlin Castro, whom the Yankees were looking to move...It was an irresistible deal. (and in the end, Martinez still got almost $24M per year from the Red Sox)... Yes, Hawaii. I do agree that Martinez is the better hitter at this point in their careers, though his defensive reputation is of lesser quality, and he's pretty much a station to station runner who has virtually no base-stealing ability at all. In fact, his foot speed is likely the primary reason that he's DH'd more than he's played in the OF to date this season. (Stanton is about 50/50, but I feel that to be more because the Yankees have better defenders available in the corners than Stanton's foot speed...Z(Stanton doesn't steal bases, either...but he's much faster than you would expect him to be with those long strides). So far this season, in almost an equal number of AB's Stanton has fanned 70 times and walked 19 times, while Martinez has fanned 55 times and walked 19 times...so the strike out issues comes down to 15 more strike outs for Stanton at the 1/3 point of the season. All in all, after analyzing the issue, I would say the Yankees made the correct choice. Whether we like it or not, money played a big role in that choice. But I do "get" your theme about contact hitting, and don't understand fully why the strikeout has become so accepted within the sport. I was just lamenting the other day elsewhere on this site that when Charlie Keller lead the AL in K's with 101 in 1946, he became the first Yankee to fan over 100 times. Look where we are now. Players that strike out "only" 100 times are now referred to as contact hitters. I would have been so ashamed of myself if I had done a lot of striking out when I played... These guys don't seem to mind...But I feel it's largely imaginary that any particular kind of player comes through better in the playoffs. Some of the all time greats have had horrible post seasons and also great post seasons in different years. We just notice things more in the post season, and I think sluggers get more grief when they slump from the press, just like they get more glory when they hit HRs in big spots...Some things are just hard to explain... Great post Inger. Gave me more insight into what transpired. Makes me look at it a little differently. Still wish they went after Martinez if only to take him away from Boston. Season for both teams would look a lot different. |
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Post by hawaiiyankee on Jun 1, 2018 19:38:43 GMT -5
I just want to add I just looked at Stanton's profile as he's up to bat right now and was amazed to see he has 11 HRs this year. I thought it was like 6 or something. As bad as he's been playing he still has 11 HRs. He had a bunch of games where he hit 2 in one game so maybe that's why the droughts seem longer.
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Post by sierchio on Jun 1, 2018 21:42:22 GMT -5
All off season... Even before jd signed with the sux... Mlb network was comparing the two players. They were more statistic similar than I would've thought
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Post by inger on Jun 1, 2018 23:53:44 GMT -5
Well, it's spilled milk now...But, when the Yankees got Stanton...Martinez was a free-agent coming off a strong three-season run with the bat and dreaming of HUGE dollars. That was December...As I recall, he started out talking about a $30M per year contract, which is more than Stanton makes. I think the price mattered to the Yankees, who were aiming to get below the luxury tax threshold for the year, so when Stanton became available, and the centerpiece of the deal was surprisingly, Starlin Castro, whom the Yankees were looking to move...It was an irresistible deal. (and in the end, Martinez still got almost $24M per year from the Red Sox)... Yes, Hawaii. I do agree that Martinez is the better hitter at this point in their careers, though his defensive reputation is of lesser quality, and he's pretty much a station to station runner who has virtually no base-stealing ability at all. In fact, his foot speed is likely the primary reason that he's DH'd more than he's played in the OF to date this season. (Stanton is about 50/50, but I feel that to be more because the Yankees have better defenders available in the corners than Stanton's foot speed...Z(Stanton doesn't steal bases, either...but he's much faster than you would expect him to be with those long strides). So far this season, in almost an equal number of AB's Stanton has fanned 70 times and walked 19 times, while Martinez has fanned 55 times and walked 19 times...so the strike out issues comes down to 15 more strike outs for Stanton at the 1/3 point of the season. All in all, after analyzing the issue, I would say the Yankees made the correct choice. Whether we like it or not, money played a big role in that choice. But I do "get" your theme about contact hitting, and don't understand fully why the strikeout has become so accepted within the sport. I was just lamenting the other day elsewhere on this site that when Charlie Keller lead the AL in K's with 101 in 1946, he became the first Yankee to fan over 100 times. Look where we are now. Players that strike out "only" 100 times are now referred to as contact hitters. I would have been so ashamed of myself if I had done a lot of striking out when I played... These guys don't seem to mind...But I feel it's largely imaginary that any particular kind of player comes through better in the playoffs. Some of the all time greats have had horrible post seasons and also great post seasons in different years. We just notice things more in the post season, and I think sluggers get more grief when they slump from the press, just like they get more glory when they hit HRs in big spots...Some things are just hard to explain... Great post Inger. Gave me more insight into what transpired. Makes me look at it a little differently. Still wish they went after Martinez if only to take him away from Boston. Season for both teams would look a lot different. Thanks, Hawaii...I guess I also wonder what would have happened if the Yankees had signed Martinez. Might the Sox have been the team to acquire Stanton? One move leads to another in the AL East...but it sure is a great race so far, isn't it??? |
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Post by kaybli on Jun 2, 2018 6:27:40 GMT -5
I have to admit Stanton looks lost at the plate right now. He's swinging at a lot of bad pitches. I still have faith that the MVP in him will show up eventually. And when that happens.... lookout Tanaka!!!
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Post by sierchio on Jun 2, 2018 11:28:51 GMT -5
I have to admit Stanton looks lost at the plate right now. He's swinging at a lot of bad pitches. I still have faith that the MVP in him will show up eventually. And when that happens.... lookout Tanaka!!! I'm holding onto my faith with Stanton as well. Don't know how much longer I can hold on though. He looks more than lost. He said the other day he refuses to change his stance mid season bc it's too difficult... He'll just make minor tweaks. I really think that stance.. no matter how effective last year.. is the culprit of his suckitude... He should be as closed as Romine is if he wants to maintain a closed stance. (Who here would ever think someone would mention Romine and mimicking something he does on offense). I believe it was actually Stanton that told Romine to close off his stance on spring training... |
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Post by michcusejoe5 on Jun 2, 2018 11:46:33 GMT -5
I have to admit Stanton looks lost at the plate right now. He's swinging at a lot of bad pitches. I still have faith that the MVP in him will show up eventually. And when that happens.... lookout Tanaka!!! He doesnt even need to be the MVP version of Stanton to make me happy...considering what we traded for him (basically nothing) and his supporting cast in this lineup. If he could muster up being the guy with a 140+ OPS+ hitting 40+ HRs per 162 games like he did from 2010-2016 that would be more than sufficient...and would make the offense nearly unstoppable. |
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Post by sierchio on Jun 2, 2018 23:06:58 GMT -5
I don't ever expect Stanton to pull an MVP type season out his ass again. That would be absurd to expect that going forward. If he hits between 30-40 dingers with a 130-140OPS+ I'll be estatic. Throw in a season or two where he exceeds those numbers and he's A HOF caliper player.
I was gonna make another point but my brains fried. I haven't slept in literally two nights with a couple hour long naps during the day...
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