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Post by nw on Aug 29, 2024 22:01:46 GMT -5
Many esteemed baseball minds call the baseball season a marathon rather than a sprint. I actually think the better analogy is the 24 hours of leMans. Rather than one driver holding the wheel like a traditional race, there is a team of drivers necessary to win. In baseball, you don't take your original 26 to battle; indeed you'll need your 40 man roster and more during the course of the season.
This brings me to the Yankees. Their 40 man roster is full of guys with MLB experience. Some good, some bad, some barely above replacement. Behind them, they have an entire organization of players just waiting for the chance. Unfortunately, the Yankees don't give those players the chance unless they literally have no other alternative.
Our current 26 man roster has the likes of Tim Hill, Tim Mayza, and Phil Bickford. They seem to have caught lightning in a bottle in Cousins, but he's another one off the experienced but not good heap. Misciewicz and Maciejewski are also taking up 40 man spots and, until recently Tonkin had a roster spot. Not counting Tonkin, that's 6 out of 40 spots taken up by pedestrian bullpen arms. Do they honestly think these 6 scrap heap arms were going to be incrementally better that using Warren and Gomez in middle relief, accomplishing the dual purpose of letting them get their feet wet in low leverage middle relief? Oh, and why the heck isn't Scott Effross on the 26 man roster? Even Jack Neely, who has a WHIP of 2.000 in Chicago (with 2 good outings and 2 bad ones, not uncommon for a guy making his debut), might be as useful as Mark Leiter Jr. and his WHIP of 2.118.
On the offensive side of the ledger, we have similar problems. Even if you discount the DJ problem, the Yankees forced themselves into both 1B and 3B problems by not trusting their prospects. They let Andres Chaparro and his 25 HR at AAA last year go without so much as a dime in return. They have TJ Rumfield and his gold glove sitting in AAA now. Instead they have DJ, who is not even a shell of his former self, and Ben Rice, who isn't even on the interstate in the last month. Oswaldo has a 1.5 WAR despite not being able to crack the starting lineup and a .300 average in the last month. He's also hitting .280 with RISP this year, as the Yankees went 2 for 26 with RISP in Washington. Do they not think Jasson Dominguez has earned the opportunity to take the third starting outfield position?
The Yankees could have been playing these prospects in low leverage roles and getting them experience and by this point in the season, you either know they aren't ready or you find out you have something. Instead, we're watching retreads and veterans that we hope might get better.
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Post by qwik3457bb on Aug 29, 2024 22:42:34 GMT -5
Many esteemed baseball minds call the baseball season a marathon rather than a sprint. I actually think the better analogy is the 24 hours of leMans. Rather than one driver holding the wheel like a traditional race, there is a team of drivers necessary to win. In baseball, you don't take your original 26 to battle; indeed you'll need your 40 man roster and more during the course of the season. This brings me to the Yankees. Their 40 man roster is full of guys with MLB experience. Some good, some bad, some barely above replacement. Behind them, they have an entire organization of players just waiting for the chance. Unfortunately, the Yankees don't give those players the chance unless they literally have no other alternative. Our current 26 man roster has the likes of Tim Hill, Tim Mayza, and Phil Bickford. They seem to have caught lightning in a bottle in Cousins, but he's another one off the experienced but not good heap. Misciewicz and Maciejewski are also taking up 40 man spots and, until recently Tonkin had a roster spot. Not counting Tonkin, that's 6 out of 40 spots taken up by pedestrian bullpen arms. Do they honestly think these 6 scrap heap arms were going to be incrementally better that using Warren and Gomez in middle relief, accomplishing the dual purpose of letting them get their feet wet in low leverage middle relief? Oh, and why the heck isn't Scott Effross on the 26 man roster? Even Jack Neely, who has a WHIP of 2.000 in Chicago (with 2 good outings and 2 bad ones, not uncommon for a guy making his debut), might be as useful as Mark Leiter Jr. and his WHIP of 2.118. On the offensive side of the ledger, we have similar problems. Even if you discount the DJ problem, the Yankees forced themselves into both 1B and 3B problems by not trusting their prospects. They let Andres Chaparro and his 25 HR at AAA last year go without so much as a dime in return. They have TJ Rumfield and his gold glove sitting in AAA now. Instead they have DJ, who is not even a shell of his former self, and Ben Rice, who isn't even on the interstate in the last month. Oswaldo has a 1.5 WAR despite not being able to crack the starting lineup and a .300 average in the last month. He's also hitting .280 with RISP this year, as the Yankees went 2 for 26 with RISP in Washington. Do they not think Jasson Dominguez has earned the opportunity to take the third starting outfield position? The Yankees could have been playing these prospects in low leverage roles and getting them experience and by this point in the season, you either know they aren't ready or you find out you have something. Instead, we're watching retreads and veterans that we hope might get better. Rice himself is a prospect they called up this season, but by and large, you're right. They don't trust their own farmhands, and don't show patience with those they do call up, with rare exceptions, like Volpe. They should trust their own farm system more, but they don't. Maybe they know a lot of their prospects simply aren't good enough. One little note: the Cubs sent Neely back to AAA Wednesday after his 2nd bad game. Maybe he isn't quite ready yet. |
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Post by chiyankee on Aug 30, 2024 8:40:22 GMT -5
Rice was only called up because Rizzo was injured and him struggling like he has isn't going to give Cashman any reasons to try other prospects. The Yanks are just as bad at the minor league level. Scranton's roster is loaded with veteran Quad A guys that have spent time in the majors but have done very little to stat there.
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Post by nw on Aug 30, 2024 9:03:35 GMT -5
Many esteemed baseball minds call the baseball season a marathon rather than a sprint. I actually think the better analogy is the 24 hours of leMans. Rather than one driver holding the wheel like a traditional race, there is a team of drivers necessary to win. In baseball, you don't take your original 26 to battle; indeed you'll need your 40 man roster and more during the course of the season. This brings me to the Yankees. Their 40 man roster is full of guys with MLB experience. Some good, some bad, some barely above replacement. Behind them, they have an entire organization of players just waiting for the chance. Unfortunately, the Yankees don't give those players the chance unless they literally have no other alternative. Our current 26 man roster has the likes of Tim Hill, Tim Mayza, and Phil Bickford. They seem to have caught lightning in a bottle in Cousins, but he's another one off the experienced but not good heap. Misciewicz and Maciejewski are also taking up 40 man spots and, until recently Tonkin had a roster spot. Not counting Tonkin, that's 6 out of 40 spots taken up by pedestrian bullpen arms. Do they honestly think these 6 scrap heap arms were going to be incrementally better that using Warren and Gomez in middle relief, accomplishing the dual purpose of letting them get their feet wet in low leverage middle relief? Oh, and why the heck isn't Scott Effross on the 26 man roster? Even Jack Neely, who has a WHIP of 2.000 in Chicago (with 2 good outings and 2 bad ones, not uncommon for a guy making his debut), might be as useful as Mark Leiter Jr. and his WHIP of 2.118. On the offensive side of the ledger, we have similar problems. Even if you discount the DJ problem, the Yankees forced themselves into both 1B and 3B problems by not trusting their prospects. They let Andres Chaparro and his 25 HR at AAA last year go without so much as a dime in return. They have TJ Rumfield and his gold glove sitting in AAA now. Instead they have DJ, who is not even a shell of his former self, and Ben Rice, who isn't even on the interstate in the last month. Oswaldo has a 1.5 WAR despite not being able to crack the starting lineup and a .300 average in the last month. He's also hitting .280 with RISP this year, as the Yankees went 2 for 26 with RISP in Washington. Do they not think Jasson Dominguez has earned the opportunity to take the third starting outfield position? The Yankees could have been playing these prospects in low leverage roles and getting them experience and by this point in the season, you either know they aren't ready or you find out you have something. Instead, we're watching retreads and veterans that we hope might get better. Rice himself is a prospect they called up this season, but by and large, you're right. They don't trust their own farmhands, and don't show patience with those they do call up, with rare exceptions, like Volpe. They should trust their own farm system more, but they don't. Maybe they know a lot of their prospects simply aren't good enough. One little note: the Cubs sent Neely back to AAA Wednesday after his 2nd bad game. Maybe he isn't quite ready yet. Of course, you're right about Rice, but I honestly think they brought him up because they had no other choice in their minds. DJ and Rizzo were hurt, along with Berti, and Oswaldo was struggling at the time. I'd bet that if they had a middling veteran somewhere in their system, they would have tried him. I still can't fathom why Rumfield didn't get the call, considering Rice was being thrown into a new position and Rice had terrible lefty splits and a high K rate at AA/AAA. I guess a couple long HRs in spring training made the Yankees fall in love with Rice because chicks love dingers (even though they needed a guy who could make contact and play defense, especially given their defense that was shaky around the diamond). And yes, the Cubs did send Neely down but that's the way it goes with prospects and young arms. I'd rather some of these guys get a little taste, get optioned down, and then go down and hone their craft with the experience they've gained. That can be done in low leverage situations. Instead, we have 6 guys taking up 40 man roster spots that Cashman is afraid to DFA because they're out of options. On another unrelated note, the Angels have called up local prospect Caden Dana. I had the opportunity to umpire him at lower level high school ball, before he made the move to go to the NJ prep school circuit at Donny Bosco. Granted the Angels are in a different place right now, but they're calling him up right from AA (and one of my all time favorite team names the Rocket City Trash Pandas) to start for the Halos Saturday. |
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Post by inger on Aug 30, 2024 9:07:14 GMT -5
There are always going to be people that want to push prospect to the top because it works for other teams. Wrong reason. Let them ripen. Then bring them up. The only thing different in NY than on other teams is that we seldom get to draft the almost ready made players…
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Post by nw on Aug 30, 2024 9:20:45 GMT -5
Rice was only called up because Rizzo was injured and him struggling like he has isn't going to give Cashman any reasons to try other prospects. The Yanks are just as bad at the minor league level. Scranton's roster is loaded with veteran Quad A guys that have spent time in the majors but have done very little to stat there. There is good reason to stash a few quad A players at AAA, but you're right, the Yankees seem to be overloaded with them on a regular basis. I remember many years ago that the best place to see prospect ball was AA and in many organizations that's true, but AAA seems to have more prospects these days. The average age at AAA has increased a little bit, but I think we're still working our way through a generation of prospects that lost a season (or two in some cases) due to COVID. Overall, the Yankees have put themselves in a spot where they have more questions than answers moving forward. Their infield is full of question marks next year outside of Volpe. The assumption is that Jazz can fill a second spot, more than likely 2B as I don't think they're going to pay Gleyber. They haven't given Peraza the chance to develop and earn a spot on the infield, they have no idea what they have in Rumfield, and Estrada and Chaparro were both let go for nothing. I can't imagine the Yankees putting a rookie at 1B (Rumfield or Rice), so they're going to have to go back to the free agent market and probably overpay for a mediocre solution. And, of course, there's the DJ problem. If, and it's a big if, the Yankees sign Soto, there's no reason the Yankees can't go with a contact hitter at either 1B or 3B, especially given the plus power they're getting out of their (should be) regular catcher in Wells. |
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Post by nw on Aug 30, 2024 9:44:09 GMT -5
There are always going to be people that want to push prospect to the top because it works for other teams. Wrong reason. Let them ripen. Then bring them up. The only thing different in NY than on other teams is that we seldom get to draft the almost ready made players… I'm not saying that you should push them up; I'm saying you shouldn't hold them down. Rumfield, for example, is 24 years old, had NCAA experience when drafted, and has had a full season now at AAA. You're correct that their draft position hurts them for North American players but outside of the first round picks, that's nothing more than an excuse. The Yankees also have the biggest Latin American scouting organization on the planet and they routinely spend to get the highest prospects via that route (although they're certainly gambles given that you're signing 16 year olds). The Yankees won't be in position to sign a Jackson Holliday, but 214 players have made their MLB debuts this season. The Yankees have a total of 5 on that list (Beeter, Macjiewski, Rice, Narvaez, and Warren). A number of former Yankees prospects have also made their debuts: Armando Alvarez, Mickey Gasper, Oliver Dunn, Mitch Spence, Andres Chaparro, Matt Sauer, Trey Sweeney, Jack Neely, and Drew Thorpe. A couple of these guys were part of the Soto trade, so you can't argue with trading those prospects. These names don't stick out as superstars but a couple of them could have filled roles on the Yankees this year and they were given away for basically nothing. |
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Post by inger on Aug 30, 2024 10:02:00 GMT -5
There are always going to be people that want to push prospect to the top because it works for other teams. Wrong reason. Let them ripen. Then bring them up. The only thing different in NY than on other teams is that we seldom get to draft the almost ready made players… I'm not saying that you should push them up; I'm saying you shouldn't hold them down. Rumfield, for example, is 24 years old, had NCAA experience when drafted, and has had a full season now at AAA. You're correct that their draft position hurts them for North American players but outside of the first round picks, that's nothing more than an excuse. The Yankees also have the biggest Latin American scouting organization on the planet and they routinely spend to get the highest prospects via that route (although they're certainly gambles given that you're signing 16 year olds). The Yankees won't be in position to sign a Jackson Holliday, but 214 players have made their MLB debuts this season. The Yankees have a total of 5 on that list (Beeter, Macjiewski, Rice, Narvaez, and Warren). A number of former Yankees prospects have also made their debuts: Armando Alvarez, Mickey Gasper, Oliver Dunn, Mitch Spence, Andres Chaparro, Matt Sauer, Trey Sweeney, Jack Neely, and Drew Thorpe. A couple of these guys were part of the Soto trade, so you can't argue with trading those prospects. These names don't stick out as superstars but a couple of them could have filled roles on the Yankees this year and they were given away for basically nothing. I think what you’re actually saying here, worded differently, is that the Yanks readily use experienced players who have already found their level of play vs. looking to play prospects, who they don’t know the level of play. That’s true. I believe to title of the thread, indicating a trust problem sort of through me off. For the most part I get it. Why do they do this? I think the factors are MLB experience giving the vets an edge, the disposability of those players when the team no longer needs them, and starting the young player’s clock, and burning an option year. Is it all about trust? No. There are other concerns. Is it always the “right” decision? No. Although Rice is going through a bad stretch now, he did provide a spark in the beginning. The worse thing about the Rizzo injury was that the backup plan was DJLM, who also got injured and underperformed. There was plenty of reason to doubt Rizzo’s health as well as DJ’s. There should have been a better plan in place… |
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Post by ypaterson on Aug 30, 2024 10:05:29 GMT -5
Many esteemed baseball minds call the baseball season a marathon rather than a sprint. I actually think the better analogy is the 24 hours of leMans. Rather than one driver holding the wheel like a traditional race, there is a team of drivers necessary to win. In baseball, you don't take your original 26 to battle; indeed you'll need your 40 man roster and more during the course of the season. This brings me to the Yankees. Their 40 man roster is full of guys with MLB experience. Some good, some bad, some barely above replacement. Behind them, they have an entire organization of players just waiting for the chance. Unfortunately, the Yankees don't give those players the chance unless they literally have no other alternative. Our current 26 man roster has the likes of Tim Hill, Tim Mayza, and Phil Bickford. They seem to have caught lightning in a bottle in Cousins, but he's another one off the experienced but not good heap. Misciewicz and Maciejewski are also taking up 40 man spots and, until recently Tonkin had a roster spot. Not counting Tonkin, that's 6 out of 40 spots taken up by pedestrian bullpen arms. Do they honestly think these 6 scrap heap arms were going to be incrementally better that using Warren and Gomez in middle relief, accomplishing the dual purpose of letting them get their feet wet in low leverage middle relief? Oh, and why the heck isn't Scott Effross on the 26 man roster? Even Jack Neely, who has a WHIP of 2.000 in Chicago (with 2 good outings and 2 bad ones, not uncommon for a guy making his debut), might be as useful as Mark Leiter Jr. and his WHIP of 2.118. On the offensive side of the ledger, we have similar problems. Even if you discount the DJ problem, the Yankees forced themselves into both 1B and 3B problems by not trusting their prospects. They let Andres Chaparro and his 25 HR at AAA last year go without so much as a dime in return. They have TJ Rumfield and his gold glove sitting in AAA now. Instead they have DJ, who is not even a shell of his former self, and Ben Rice, who isn't even on the interstate in the last month. Oswaldo has a 1.5 WAR despite not being able to crack the starting lineup and a .300 average in the last month. He's also hitting .280 with RISP this year, as the Yankees went 2 for 26 with RISP in Washington. Do they not think Jasson Dominguez has earned the opportunity to take the third starting outfield position? The Yankees could have been playing these prospects in low leverage roles and getting them experience and by this point in the season, you either know they aren't ready or you find out you have something. Instead, we're watching retreads and veterans that we hope might get better. I've always said it is more fun to watch a rookie grow up than it is to see a veteran grow old. The DJ situation has more to do with the money owed him than any preferences the organization has for vets over younger players. Like Hicks, the Yankees made a major financial commttment that is hard to abandon. And like Hicks did, DJ could go to a rival and have enough success to raise issues both serious (Hal) and in the media about the decision making process. Yes, I agree that OC should be playing lot more. Even at 3rd, where Jazz has tried, the best option most nights would be OC. For whatever reason(s), the Yankees do not see him as an everyday player. But that has more to do with their judgements than age. |
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Post by kaybli on Aug 30, 2024 10:06:51 GMT -5
All I know is 👽 better come up on Sept 1st or we riot.
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Post by ypaterson on Aug 30, 2024 10:11:17 GMT -5
There are always going to be people that want to push prospect to the top because it works for other teams. Wrong reason. Let them ripen. Then bring them up. The only thing different in NY than on other teams is that we seldom get to draft the almost ready made players… |
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Post by Max on Aug 30, 2024 15:38:17 GMT -5
Many esteemed baseball minds call the baseball season a marathon rather than a sprint. I actually think the better analogy is the 24 hours of leMans. Rather than one driver holding the wheel like a traditional race, there is a team of drivers necessary to win. In baseball, you don't take your original 26 to battle; indeed you'll need your 40 man roster and more during the course of the season. This brings me to the Yankees. Their 40 man roster is full of guys with MLB experience. Some good, some bad, some barely above replacement. Behind them, they have an entire organization of players just waiting for the chance. Unfortunately, the Yankees don't give those players the chance unless they literally have no other alternative. Our current 26 man roster has the likes of Tim Hill, Tim Mayza, and Phil Bickford. They seem to have caught lightning in a bottle in Cousins, but he's another one off the experienced but not good heap. Misciewicz and Maciejewski are also taking up 40 man spots and, until recently Tonkin had a roster spot. Not counting Tonkin, that's 6 out of 40 spots taken up by pedestrian bullpen arms. Do they honestly think these 6 scrap heap arms were going to be incrementally better that using Warren and Gomez in middle relief, accomplishing the dual purpose of letting them get their feet wet in low leverage middle relief? Oh, and why the heck isn't Scott Effross on the 26 man roster? Even Jack Neely, who has a WHIP of 2.000 in Chicago (with 2 good outings and 2 bad ones, not uncommon for a guy making his debut), might be as useful as Mark Leiter Jr. and his WHIP of 2.118. On the offensive side of the ledger, we have similar problems. Even if you discount the DJ problem, the Yankees forced themselves into both 1B and 3B problems by not trusting their prospects. They let Andres Chaparro and his 25 HR at AAA last year go without so much as a dime in return. They have TJ Rumfield and his gold glove sitting in AAA now. Instead they have DJ, who is not even a shell of his former self, and Ben Rice, who isn't even on the interstate in the last month. Oswaldo has a 1.5 WAR despite not being able to crack the starting lineup and a .300 average in the last month. He's also hitting .280 with RISP this year, as the Yankees went 2 for 26 with RISP in Washington. Do they not think Jasson Dominguez has earned the opportunity to take the third starting outfield position? The Yankees could have been playing these prospects in low leverage roles and getting them experience and by this point in the season, you either know they aren't ready or you find out you have something. Instead, we're watching retreads and veterans that we hope might get better. Well said. I couldn't agree more. |
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Post by Max on Aug 30, 2024 15:43:29 GMT -5
Many esteemed baseball minds call the baseball season a marathon rather than a sprint. I actually think the better analogy is the 24 hours of leMans. Rather than one driver holding the wheel like a traditional race, there is a team of drivers necessary to win. In baseball, you don't take your original 26 to battle; indeed you'll need your 40 man roster and more during the course of the season. This brings me to the Yankees. Their 40 man roster is full of guys with MLB experience. Some good, some bad, some barely above replacement. Behind them, they have an entire organization of players just waiting for the chance. Unfortunately, the Yankees don't give those players the chance unless they literally have no other alternative. Our current 26 man roster has the likes of Tim Hill, Tim Mayza, and Phil Bickford. They seem to have caught lightning in a bottle in Cousins, but he's another one off the experienced but not good heap. Misciewicz and Maciejewski are also taking up 40 man spots and, until recently Tonkin had a roster spot. Not counting Tonkin, that's 6 out of 40 spots taken up by pedestrian bullpen arms. Do they honestly think these 6 scrap heap arms were going to be incrementally better that using Warren and Gomez in middle relief, accomplishing the dual purpose of letting them get their feet wet in low leverage middle relief? Oh, and why the heck isn't Scott Effross on the 26 man roster? Even Jack Neely, who has a WHIP of 2.000 in Chicago (with 2 good outings and 2 bad ones, not uncommon for a guy making his debut), might be as useful as Mark Leiter Jr. and his WHIP of 2.118. On the offensive side of the ledger, we have similar problems. Even if you discount the DJ problem, the Yankees forced themselves into both 1B and 3B problems by not trusting their prospects. They let Andres Chaparro and his 25 HR at AAA last year go without so much as a dime in return. They have TJ Rumfield and his gold glove sitting in AAA now. Instead they have DJ, who is not even a shell of his former self, and Ben Rice, who isn't even on the interstate in the last month. Oswaldo has a 1.5 WAR despite not being able to crack the starting lineup and a .300 average in the last month. He's also hitting .280 with RISP this year, as the Yankees went 2 for 26 with RISP in Washington. Do they not think Jasson Dominguez has earned the opportunity to take the third starting outfield position? The Yankees could have been playing these prospects in low leverage roles and getting them experience and by this point in the season, you either know they aren't ready or you find out you have something. Instead, we're watching retreads and veterans that we hope might get better. Rice himself is a prospect they called up this season, but by and large, you're right. They don't trust their own farmhands, and don't show patience with those they do call up, with rare exceptions, like Volpe. They should trust their own farm system more, but they don't. Maybe they know a lot of their prospects simply aren't good enough. One little note: the Cubs sent Neely back to AAA Wednesday after his 2nd bad game. Maybe he isn't quite ready yet.The same can be said for some of the relief pitchers the Yankees have used this season. I'd would have liked to have seen the Yankees give a prospect like Neely a chance instead of trading him away for what seems to be in my opinion, a mediocre pitcher. |
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Post by qwik3457bb on Aug 30, 2024 16:33:43 GMT -5
Rice himself is a prospect they called up this season, but by and large, you're right. They don't trust their own farmhands, and don't show patience with those they do call up, with rare exceptions, like Volpe. They should trust their own farm system more, but they don't. Maybe they know a lot of their prospects simply aren't good enough. One little note: the Cubs sent Neely back to AAA Wednesday after his 2nd bad game. Maybe he isn't quite ready yet.The same can be said for some of the relief pitchers the Yankees have used this season. I'd would have liked to have seen the Yankees give a prospect like Neely a chance instead of trading him away for what seems to be in my opinion, a mediocre pitcher. nw, who started this thread, said the same thing when they traded him for Leiter. Maybe you're both right about him. |
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Post by nw on Aug 30, 2024 17:31:51 GMT -5
The same can be said for some of the relief pitchers the Yankees have used this season. I'd would have liked to have seen the Yankees give a prospect like Neely a chance instead of trading him away for what seems to be in my opinion, a mediocre pitcher. nw, who started this thread, said the same thing when they traded him for Leiter. Maybe you're both right about him. If the Yankees had given him maybe 10 low leverage opportunities rather than rotating through the garbage pile, they might have had a better idea of what they had in him. Of course, on the other side of the coin, if he didn't work out, they wouldn't have had him as a chip to trade for Leiter (who I think will be better that his performance thus far). It used to be easy to pick up serviceable arms at the trade deadline. However, with the expanded playoffs, the early trade deadline, the lack of a waiver deadline, and the parity this season with so many teams a few games above or below .500, the market is no longer rich. The Yankees right now have Holmes (and his problems), Kahnle, Weaver, and a LOT of praying. I left out Cousins, because, in my opinion, he's a paper tiger. I would have much rather seen Warren, Gomez, and maybe even Neely, getting experience in low leverage than watching these old retreads. We have seen that both Warren and Gomez have the stuff but it takes major league experience to learn that major league hitters are unforgiving. I'd rather have them get that experience 4 or 5 runs down than throwing them into starts in a pennant race. |
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