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Post by rizzuto on Jul 19, 2023 16:05:25 GMT -5
CHI kicking things up a notch, running in Death Valley in 128 degree heat!  |
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Post by kaybli on Jul 19, 2023 16:14:54 GMT -5
CHI kicking things up a notch, running in Death Valley in 128 degree heat!  |
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Post by inger on Jul 19, 2023 16:31:00 GMT -5
CHI kicking things up a notch, running in Death Valley in 128 degree heat! When I was in the greenhouse business one of the growers that had to spray frequently invested in an air conditioned task mask/hood. Maybe Chi did that too… |
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Post by chiyankee on Jul 20, 2023 21:08:42 GMT -5
CHI kicking things up a notch, running in Death Valley in 128 degree heat! Hey, somehow I missed this post. This guy is one crazy runner.  |
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Post by chiyankee on Jul 20, 2023 22:14:03 GMT -5
They have to stop all this fighting in the Japanese league.
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Post by kaybli on Jul 20, 2023 22:20:43 GMT -5
They have to stop all this fighting in the Japanese league. , thats hilariously wholesome. |
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Post by inger on Jul 21, 2023 0:01:07 GMT -5
They have to stop all this fighting in the Japanese league. LGBTQ League baseball. What would they do to each other after a home plate collision?… 😂 |
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Post by BillyBones on Jul 22, 2023 14:28:19 GMT -5
I have been so disgusted with the roster Cashman puts together, and lately with Boone as well, that I have withdrawn into casual rather than avid fandom for the Yankees. It is what it is, and I can't control any of it. But, I wondered what some of the more mature posters might think about this question. Name a team that in your estimation seemed to play better as a team than one would think from the individual players on the team? Maybe thinking for more than one year, to eliminate the 1914 Braves or the 1969 Mets.
I suggest for consideration the early 1970 Oakland A's teams. Didn't they win 3 WS in a row? They had some nice players, but outside of Reggie, not all-world. It seemed to me that they melded into a juggernaut for a few years. The antithesis of what seems to happen with teams Cashman constructs. There probably are better examples, but I was taken by those A's teams when they beat the Reds and Mets. Any comments?
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Post by rizzuto on Jul 22, 2023 15:25:09 GMT -5
I have been so disgusted with the roster Cashman puts together, and lately with Boone as well, that I have withdrawn into casual rather than avid fandom for the Yankees. It is what it is, and I can't control any of it. But, I wondered what some of the more mature posters might think about this question. Name a team that in your estimation seemed to play better as a team than one would think from the individual players on the team? Maybe thinking for more than one year, to eliminate the 1914 Braves or the 1969 Mets. I suggest for consideration the early 1970 Oakland A's teams. Didn't they win 3 WS in a row? They had some nice players, but outside of Reggie, not all-world. It seemed to me that they melded into a juggernaut for a few years. The antithesis of what seems to happen with teams Cashman constructs. There probably are better examples, but I was taken by those A's teams when they beat the Reds and Mets. Any comments? That's an interesting take. True, those 1972, 1973, and 1974 championship teams were certainly not The Big Red Machine offensively. And, that 1971 team won 101 games and lost 3-0 to the Orioles, who lost to the Pirates in seven games in the World Series. But, those Oakland Athletics of the early 1970s were loaded with pitching: Catfish Hunter, Ken Holtzman, Vida Blue, Blue Moon Odom, Rollie Fingers. Solid with catchers Duncan and Ray Fosse and Gene Tenace. Bert Campaneris was the typical defensive first shortstop. Sal Bando at third, Joe Rudi in left field. So, that's three Hall of Famers: Reggie, Catfish, and Fingers. Definitely better as a team than the sum of their parts. The Yankees' teams constructed by Cashman (which eliminates the championship teams of 1996, 1998, 1999, and 2000 - and the Core Four were still going strong in 2009, as Jeter led the team in WAR) have been primarily station to station, unathletic, and overly right-handed offensively (complete idiocy with dimensions of Yankee Stadium hosting half of the games), and with dubious defense most of the time at first, shortstop, centerfield, and catcher. In short, weak up the middle; horrible on the bases; and no left-handed hitters to take advantage in half of the games played. Cashman made a name for himself off of Gene "Stick" Michael's brilliance of identifying players to draft, to keep, and in trades, which Cashman admits is his most delinquent area of expertise - identifying talent before others see it. We just have to hope this team makes it to the dance, and then gets hot. |
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Post by pippsheadache on Jul 22, 2023 17:05:17 GMT -5
I have been so disgusted with the roster Cashman puts together, and lately with Boone as well, that I have withdrawn into casual rather than avid fandom for the Yankees. It is what it is, and I can't control any of it. But, I wondered what some of the more mature posters might think about this question. Name a team that in your estimation seemed to play better as a team than one would think from the individual players on the team? Maybe thinking for more than one year, to eliminate the 1914 Braves or the 1969 Mets. I suggest for consideration the early 1970 Oakland A's teams. Didn't they win 3 WS in a row? They had some nice players, but outside of Reggie, not all-world. It seemed to me that they melded into a juggernaut for a few years. The antithesis of what seems to happen with teams Cashman constructs. There probably are better examples, but I was taken by those A's teams when they beat the Reds and Mets. Any comments? Now that's an interesting take BillyBones, and not something I had considered. While as Brother Rizzuto has noted it was obviously a solid team, with three Hall of Famers, it would not strike you looking at the rosters that these were teams that would win three straight championships (plus two division titles bookending those rings.) BTW, the rarely-recalled Ken Holtzman won 59 games over those three seasons, second only to Catfish Hunter's 67. But I agree they exceeded expectations. Perhaps something of a whole is greater than the sum of the parts comparison would be the Giants, with their three rings in 2010, 2012, and 2014. The only player on that team who is going to get a sniff at Cooperstown is Buster Posey (should be a lock) and while they had pitchers who had some individual great seasons like Tim Lincecum and Madison Bumgarner, none of them is on the radar for Cooperstown. Okay, Tim Hudson might be, but he was old and washed up when the Giants had him. Look at that 2010 outfit -- other than Posey, the IF was Aubrey Huff, Freddy Sanchez, Juan Uribe and Pablo Sandoval. The OF was Pat Burrell, Aaron Rowand and Nate Schierholtz. A fun team, but I don't see many household names in there. The 2012 team besides Posey was Brandon Belt, Ryan Theriot, Brandon Crawford, Pablo Sandoval, Melky Cabrera, Angel Pagan and Hunter Pence. The 2014 squad was Posey, Belt, Joe Panik, Sandoval, Mike Morse, Pagan and Pence. Not exactly Murderers Row. So they would be in my running for least likely dynasty. I'm not counting teams like the Dodgers run from 63-66, with three pennants and two rings, because they had the two dominant stud pitchers in Koufax and Drysdale, plus always a solid third or fourth guy like Johnny Podres or Claude Osteen or Don Sutton. They did it strictly on pitching and defense and base-running, with players who were just good enough like Tommy and Willie Davis and Ron Fairly and Frank Howard and John Roseboro and Wes Parker and Junior Gilliam and Maury Wills. Going way back, the Cubs of 1906-1910 won four pennants and two rings and were definitely over-achievers. Despite having four HOFers (Tinker, Evers, Chance and Three-Finger Brown) only Chance and Brown are really deserving. They had a lot of solid starters like Johnny Kling catching and Harry Steinfeldt at third and the OFers Wildfire Schulte and Jimmy Scheckard and Jimmy Slagle. Every year some other pitcher would join Brown in having a great year -- Jack Pfiester, Orval Overall, Ed Reulbach -- but there was more talent on the Pirates and Giants for sure. I only know about these guys because of our old family friend who hated the Cubs and talked about those teams all the time, so I thought I should mention them. Getting back to the Athletics -- in the live ball era, they are the only team in the AL besides the Yankees to have at least three straight pennants, and they've done it three times -- 1929-1931, 1972-1974 and 1988-1990. They came close one time in the dead ball era, winning in 1910, 1911 and again in 1913-1914. They are probably the most schizophrenic franchise in baseball, with bursts of glory in between long periods of awfulness. Anyway, thanks for raising this topic and keep them coming! We need you around more. |
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Post by domeplease on Jul 22, 2023 17:10:42 GMT -5
SAYS IT ALL:
"The Yankees' teams constructed by Cashman (which eliminates the championship teams of 1996, 1998, 1999, and 2000 - and the Core Four were still going strong in 2009, as Jeter led the team in WAR) have been primarily station to station, unathletic, and overly right-handed offensively (complete idiocy with dimensions of Yankee Stadium hosting half of the games), and with dubious defense most of the time at first, shortstop, centerfield, and catcher. In short, weak up the middle; horrible on the bases; and no left-handed hitters to take advantage in half of the games played. Cashman made a name for himself off of Gene "Stick" Michael's brilliance of identifying players to draft, to keep, and in trades, which Cashman admits is his most delinquent area of expertise - identifying talent before others see it."
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Post by BillyBones on Jul 22, 2023 19:23:33 GMT -5
Wow. Thank you Rizzuto and Pipps. I am blown away by your responses. I agree that those 70's A's teams had some talent, all right. Especially with their young pitching. I remember one of those years reading how Odom went to sleep on the massage table just before he was to start a critical game. I cannot imagine being able to go to sleep under such conditions. I would be nervous days ahead. Do you guys remember when the Reds had men on and Johnny Bench at the plate in late innings in a close game, and Bench had 2 strikes on him, and Dick Williams came out to the mound and pointed to first base, indicating for Fingers to put Bench on, and Tenance came back behind the plate and stood up holding his mitt outside, and Fingers threw a perfect slider that nipped the outside corner, and Bench was caught flatfooted, expecting the walk. If I had to distill all baseball I have ever seen into one sequence, that is my favorite all-time. Williams did not over-act, it was perfectly executed by those players.
The other group that deserves a mention, imo, is the unlikely run of the 49-53 Yankees. Somehow, Casey seemed to juggle lineups, and pitchers and win 5 titles in a row. I remember that almost all of those years the pre-season magazines would have them behind maybe two other clubs as favorites, the Red Sox, Indians and Tigers often looked better on paper, and the White Sox woke up in 51 and were good. Thank goodness they didn't have to go through a play-off, and the Dodgers seemed to choke three of those years and the Phils and Giants were not too good.
Cashman and Boone ought to hand their heads in shame for their abject failures at winning, compared to what Stengel and Weiss produced. Thanks for making my day today with your mrmories.
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Post by pippsheadache on Jul 22, 2023 20:24:14 GMT -5
Wow. Thank you Rizzuto and Pipps. I am blown away by your responses. I agree that those 70's A's teams had some talent, all right. Especially with their young pitching. I remember one of those years reading how Odom went to sleep on the massage table just before he was to start a critical game. I cannot imagine being able to go to sleep under such conditions. I would be nervous days ahead. Do you guys remember when the Reds had men on and Johnny Bench at the plate in late innings in a close game, and Bench had 2 strikes on him, and Dick Williams came out to the mound and pointed to first base, indicating for Fingers to put Bench on, and Tenance came back behind the plate and stood up holding his mitt outside, and Fingers threw a perfect slider that nipped the outside corner, and Bench was caught flatfooted, expecting the walk. If I had to distill all baseball I have ever seen into one sequence, that is my favorite all-time. Williams did not over-act, it was perfectly executed by those players. The other group that deserves a mention, imo, is the unlikely run of the 49-53 Yankees. Somehow, Casey seemed to juggle lineups, and pitchers and win 5 titles in a row. I remember that almost all of those years the pre-season magazines would have them behind maybe two other clubs as favorites, the Red Sox, Indians and Tigers often looked better on paper, and the White Sox woke up in 51 and were good. Thank goodness they didn't have to go through a play-off, and the Dodgers seemed to choke three of those years and the Phils and Giants were not too good. Cashman and Boone ought to hand their heads in shame for their abject failures at winning, compared to what Stengel and Weiss produced. Thanks for making my day today with your mrmories. I remember that Johnny Bench play vividly BillyBones. Bench always claimed that he didn't swing because he thought the pitch was a ball, but at the time it didn't look that way. He was such a great player that I can't knock him too much. Dick Williams was one crafty skipper. I'm sure you remember the A's "designated runners" Allen Lewis and Herb Washington. With one less roster spot than they have today, they could still afford to carry a player who did nothing but pinch run. You can have fun with the roster when you only carry ten pitchers. George Weiss was one of the great talent evaluators of all-time, just like his mentor Ed Barrow. Lucky you to have been around for those 49-53 teams. Five years, five rings. So you got to see Joe D. and Johnny Mize and Tommy Henrich and Snuffy Stirnweiss and Johnny Lindell and the hard-drinking reliever Joe Page and Charlie Keller (a GREAT player who should unquestionably be in the HOF) on the way out. And that endless influx of talent-- Mickey Mantle, Whitey Ford, Gil McDougald, Yogi Berra, Jerry Coleman, Gene Woodling, Hank Bauer, Bobby Brown, the under-appreciated Billy Johnson et al on the way in. Plus Reynolds, Raschi, Lopat and Scooter -- hard to imagine all that talent on one team. Yeah, Boston and Cleveland had some outstanding teams in there as well -- Boston won in 48 and Cleveland in 54, the year Casey won his most games with 103 but still finished seven games behind the Tribe. That was just before my memory, but even as a little kid I enjoyed how frustrated people were by the Yankees dominance. Do keep the recollections coming when you can. |
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Post by inger on Jul 22, 2023 23:39:38 GMT -5
Wow. Thank you Rizzuto and Pipps. I am blown away by your responses. I agree that those 70's A's teams had some talent, all right. Especially with their young pitching. I remember one of those years reading how Odom went to sleep on the massage table just before he was to start a critical game. I cannot imagine being able to go to sleep under such conditions. I would be nervous days ahead. Do you guys remember when the Reds had men on and Johnny Bench at the plate in late innings in a close game, and Bench had 2 strikes on him, and Dick Williams came out to the mound and pointed to first base, indicating for Fingers to put Bench on, and Tenance came back behind the plate and stood up holding his mitt outside, and Fingers threw a perfect slider that nipped the outside corner, and Bench was caught flatfooted, expecting the walk. If I had to distill all baseball I have ever seen into one sequence, that is my favorite all-time. Williams did not over-act, it was perfectly executed by those players. The other group that deserves a mention, imo, is the unlikely run of the 49-53 Yankees. Somehow, Casey seemed to juggle lineups, and pitchers and win 5 titles in a row. I remember that almost all of those years the pre-season magazines would have them behind maybe two other clubs as favorites, the Red Sox, Indians and Tigers often looked better on paper, and the White Sox woke up in 51 and were good. Thank goodness they didn't have to go through a play-off, and the Dodgers seemed to choke three of those years and the Phils and Giants were not too good. Cashman and Boone ought to hand their heads in shame for their abject failures at winning, compared to what Stengel and Weiss produced. Thanks for making my day today with your mrmories. I can think of quite a few of the old White Sox “Hitless Wonders” teams that win with an incredible dearth of offense. Your take on Oakland is quite true, as well. Like Joe Rudi being proclaimed the most under rated player in baseball during that run, the team seemed to be somewhat the same… |
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Post by kaybli on Jul 23, 2023 1:44:42 GMT -5
I thought of a good lineup when Judge comes back:
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