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Post by hawaiiyankee on Oct 23, 2019 19:02:28 GMT -5
Do you think a team could win with a team of batting average guys as opposed to a normal good team like the Yankees where you have a blend of both. I mean if you have a lineup of guys like Wade Boggs, Tony Gwynns, Ichiro Suzukis, etc. Guys who don't strikeout a lot. Or even with lesser players like Martin Prado, Ender Inciarte, etc.
It's just that I love guys like LeMehieu, Michael Brantley, Jose Altuve and they don't cost much money (well maybe not Altuve). I'm just wondering if you need that HR in the regular season to propel you to the post season. I would just love a team where 1 - 9 they could hit above .300 and are hard to strikeout. Just wondering how that team would do compare to a power team.
I just hate guys like Giancarlo Stanton and Gary Sanchez who seem to struggle in the post season vs elite pitching. Getting flashbacks to ARod.
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Post by kaybli on Oct 23, 2019 19:10:53 GMT -5
Do you think a team could win with a team of batting average guys as opposed to a normal good team like the Yankees where you have a blend of both. I mean if you have a lineup of guys like Wade Boggs, Tony Gwynns, Ichiro Suzukis, etc. Guys who don't strikeout a lot. Or even with lesser players like Martin Prado, Ender Inciarte, etc. It's just that I love guys like LeMehieu, Michael Brantley, Jose Altuve and they don't cost much money (well maybe not Altuve). I'm just wondering if you need that HR in the regular season to propel you to the post season. I would just love a team where 1 - 9 they could hit above .300 and are hard to strikeout. Just wondering how that team would do compare to a power team. I just hate guys like Giancarlo Stanton and Gary Sanchez who seem to struggle in the post season vs elite pitching. Getting flashbacks to ARod. In 2019 only 18 qualified players hit over .300. You're not going to be able to field a team of them. Average has been down league wide for a while now. Back in 2001, comparatively, 45 qualified players hit over .300. |
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Post by inger on Oct 23, 2019 21:23:20 GMT -5
Of course the theoretical team could win. Especially if you can have at least 4-5 of them that have power along with the batting skills. You mentioned LeMahieu, Altuve, and Brantley, all of whom have power.
To me the key would be what ball park you were playing in, and if the players were fundamentally sound. You’d want some speed on the team, too. They best be able to field, to use the whole field when hitting, have a strong pitching staff and strong arms, especially at catcher.
It would also help if at least 1/3 of them had exceptional batting eyes and could reach base with well above league average ability. Put the team you want in a big park with speedy outfielders (another reason for you to want good speed on the bases).
No, it’s not too likely to put that many .300 hitters on one team, but if you default to a combination of high OBP hitters with respectable batting averages, you can look at some of the teams that Kansas City, Oakland, and St. Louis have put together during some of their best runs, you’ll see it’s been done before.
Remember as well that back in the day Billy Beane found a way to build around under-valued OBP and was able to build his team on the relative cheap while contending. Those batting average guys are trending toward being undervalued now, which has a great deal with the reason LeMahieu is on the Yankees right now. The stolen base is currently undervalued at this point, too.
Now, go predict who’s going to hit for a high average for the next five years and build that team, Hawaii!
BTW: I don’t agree that the Stanton’s of the world automatically fall apart at playoff time. I just think that when they do the press puts a huge amount of focus on it. When they do well, we don’t hear as much because... after all... isn’t that what they’re supposed to do?...
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Post by inger on Oct 23, 2019 22:08:59 GMT -5
Here’s another thought... No one that qualified for the batting title and hit over .300 hit fewer than 12 HR in 2019. It’s not likely to find a Boggs or an Ichiro any more... Seems like a pretty good number of those .300+ struck out quite a bit, too...
I guess the 70’s and 80’s... even the early 90’s died with the PEDs age and the use of spread sheets and video...That doesn’t mean that high average team can’t win. It just means somebody is going to have to teach them to play that way...
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Post by kaybli on Oct 24, 2019 1:25:16 GMT -5
Just know that this year the Yankees
Had the 4th highest batting average in MLB
Highest average with RISP in the regular season
Highest average with RISP and high leverage situations in the regular season (.347, next highest was .300, then .281)
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Post by bearman on Oct 24, 2019 11:57:10 GMT -5
Just know that this year the Yankees
Had the 4th highest batting average in MLB
Highest average with RISP in the regular season
Highest average with RISP and high leverage situations in the regular season (.347, next highest was .300, then .281)
I had read this somewhere else. I have been frustrated by what I perceived at the high strikeout rate of Sanchez, Encarnacion, Judge, etc. but the above stats reinforces my belief that you have to take the good with the bad with the players on our roster. I believe Houston, when we played them, was the better team which really doesn't matter since they won. I think it comes down to who is playing the best at the time they play and the dismal performances of Sanchez and Encarnacion doomed us. Interesting offseason it will be. |
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Post by inger on Oct 24, 2019 13:26:01 GMT -5
Yordan Alvarez pooped the bed for the Astros, too. We make too much of the blame and credit for what happens in these short series. Players are hot or cold all the time during the regular season. Slumps and hot streaks. I’m more concerned with Sanchez, because he’s not likely to be going anywhere and because he’s starting to build a post season resume of repeat failure. But I still don’t think that means he’ll fail in future post seasons...He could bat .500 in next year’s post season as easly as anyone else...
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Post by Renfield on Oct 24, 2019 14:31:49 GMT -5
Yordan Alvarez pooped the bed for the Astros, too. We make too much of the blame and credit for what happens in these short series. Players are hot or cold all the time during the regular season. Slumps and hot streaks. I’m more concerned with Sanchez, because he’s not likely to be going anywhere and because he’s starting to build a post season resume of repeat failure. But I still don’t think that means he’ll fail in future post seasons...He could bat .500 in next year’s post season as easly as anyone else... True. But he'll need to quit swinging balls that bounce in front of the plate or the opposite batters box before he does. |
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Post by bearman on Oct 24, 2019 14:52:07 GMT -5
Yordan Alvarez pooped the bed for the Astros, too. We make too much of the blame and credit for what happens in these short series. Players are hot or cold all the time during the regular season. Slumps and hot streaks. I’m more concerned with Sanchez, because he’s not likely to be going anywhere and because he’s starting to build a post season resume of repeat failure. But I still don’t think that means he’ll fail in future post seasons...He could bat .500 in next year’s post season as easly as anyone else... You always bring up good points Inger but we have to get to next post season before he or anyone else on the roster fails or succeeds. Players are human, they go through slumps, and I am sure they don't control when it happens. I'm not going to try and research it and I stand to be corrected but I bet it would be hard to find two players like Encarnacion and Sanchez that had more miserable playoff series. Not knocking on them just saying what I believe. |
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Post by inger on Oct 24, 2019 15:39:58 GMT -5
Yordan Alvarez pooped the bed for the Astros, too. We make too much of the blame and credit for what happens in these short series. Players are hot or cold all the time during the regular season. Slumps and hot streaks. I’m more concerned with Sanchez, because he’s not likely to be going anywhere and because he’s starting to build a post season resume of repeat failure. But I still don’t think that means he’ll fail in future post seasons...He could bat .500 in next year’s post season as easly as anyone else... You always bring up good points Inger but we have to get to next post season before he or anyone else on the roster fails or succeeds. Players are human, they go through slumps, and I am sure they don't control when it happens. I'm not going to try and research it and I stand to be corrected but I bet it would be hard to find two players like Encarnacion and Sanchez that had more miserable playoff series. Not knocking on them just saying what I believe. I don’t feel need to research or refute. I saw the same thing and felt the same pain you did. I can’t recall the year, but I do recall Winfield having a horrible series once, like 1 for 21 or 1 for 22. We suffer along with these guys when they bomb...Pooping the bed is never fun...Nor is watching it... |
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Post by hawaiiyankee on Oct 24, 2019 17:11:29 GMT -5
Yeah, I know batting average is down because of all the shifts now and analytics but Smoltz said in the series that he believes more guys like Lemahieu will start to develop as the metrics shift that way. For a while the shift was launch angle and HRs but now we might start seeing guys like Boggs and Gwynn possibly.
My rotissere league includes strike outs for batters, most don't, so we have to weigh if the HRs and RBIs are worth the Ks. More thinking involved. Made me appreciate guys like Placido Polanco. Dude was a hitting maching and the hardest in the league to K. I think he had 20 Ks one season. That alone could win you that category. I guess I have to lower my standard to having a team of players all hitting above .280. I just used .300 as an example. Maybe we should've gone after Brantley instead of signing Hicks although Brantley always comes out in the late innings due to defense.
Having a team like that would be relentless. That's why I would like to sign guys like Betts and Lindor instead of Stanton or Bryce Harper. My other thing is just go for the aces when you have the chance. We should break the bank for Cole. We did it with Sabathia and I think it was worth it. Who cares about the luxury tax for this year. Try to control it later on by getting rid of high salary hitters. Wish we didn't sign Stanton. I think I would rather have Machado if we did go that route.
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Post by sierchio on Oct 26, 2019 11:02:40 GMT -5
Polanco didn't strike out, but he didn't walk much either and hit for no power. Guy hit almost 300 for his career and still winds up with a career 95 OPS+ I don't think putting the ball in play, in and of itself, is a PLUS skill if you're hitting into outs regardless.
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Post by greatfatness on Oct 26, 2019 13:24:23 GMT -5
The way the game is played today you can’t win sustainably without both as well as OBP. Just average without power and walks won’t score enough to win. Just HRs workout average and walks won’t score enough to win either. And if you can’t hit for power or average you’re not going to walk because there’s no reason to pitch around anyone.
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Post by inger on Oct 26, 2019 14:37:00 GMT -5
The way the game is played today you can’t win sustainably without both as well as OBP. Just average without power and walks won’t score enough to win. Just HRs workout average and walks won’t score enough to win either. And if you can’t hit for power or average you’re not going to walk because there’s no reason to pitch around anyone. Which goes back to what I’ve said for years. Balance. Some of this, some of that, just all of it has to be something good. Some OBP guys, some free swingers with a high average and and great contact skills. And certainly some power guys, throw some speed in there...one game can be shut down by the opponents. A mixed attack is more flexible and hard to stop...I actually rather see the team somewhere between about third and sixth in each category than to see it lead the league in BA or HR. Do everything well...And double that with the glove... |
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Post by bluemarlin on Oct 26, 2019 18:20:33 GMT -5
The way the game is played today you can’t win sustainably without both as well as OBP. Just average without power and walks won’t score enough to win. Just HRs workout average and walks won’t score enough to win either. And if you can’t hit for power or average you’re not going to walk because there’s no reason to pitch around anyone. Which goes back to what I’ve said for years. Balance. Some of this, some of that, just all of it has to be something good. Some OBP guys, some free swingers with a high average and and great contact skills. And certainly some power guys, throw some speed in there...one game can be shut down by the opponents. A mixed attack is more flexible and hard to stop...I actually rather see the team somewhere between about third and sixth in each category than to see it lead the league in BA or HR. Do everything well...And double that with the glove... Interesting thread with everyone making some good points. In my opinion, homeruns have become king. No team wins without them. And, while the number of guys who hit 50+ remains small, the number who hit between 25-38, or so, is pretty high. Batting average doesn't seem to mean as much as it used to. Strikeouts don't mean what they used to, either. Walks, and .OBP, mean more. Aaron Judge,for example, is viewed not as a good, but as a great young player. Why? He's a +defensively, walks a lot, and hits homeruns. The fact that he strikes out like Rob Deer doesn't seem to factor into the equation. Years ago, "great" players hit .300. |
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