|
|
Post by rizzuto on Nov 22, 2019 23:45:25 GMT -5
Since no one is standing up for Manny Ramirez here, and he had an OPS of 154...I think it’s pretty obvious that proof or no proof, most think he was using PEDs. I do. PEDs, steroids, crazy pills. Anything he could find. Dude was weird... We know he used PEDs. He was suspended by MLB twice, and tried to get out of the second one by retiring. He eventually served half of it after trying a come back. |
|
|
|
Post by inger on Nov 23, 2019 0:53:03 GMT -5
Since no one is standing up for Manny Ramirez here, and he had an OPS of 154...I think it’s pretty obvious that proof or no proof, most think he was using PEDs. I do. PEDs, steroids, crazy pills. Anything he could find. Dude was weird... I did have Manny on my list of guys I'd put in, although I hated seeing him play against the Yanks but he was an elite hitter and I don't think it was because of PED's. Proof positive that you are a kind and trusting man. Lock your house when you go to bed. Lock your car... |
|
|
|
Post by chiyankee on Nov 23, 2019 9:50:20 GMT -5
I did have Manny on my list of guys I'd put in, although I hated seeing him play against the Yanks but he was an elite hitter and I don't think it was because of PED's. Proof positive that you are a kind and trusting man. Lock your house when you go to bed. Lock your car... You have to lock your doors around here! There's already cheaters in the HOF and if a player was always a HOF'er, I'm not going to keep him out, so I would vote for the likes of Ramirez, Clemens and Bonds. That said, I don't think Manny has a snowballs chance in Hades of ever getting in. |
|
|
|
Post by sierchio on Nov 23, 2019 19:10:51 GMT -5
Proof positive that you are a kind and trusting man. Lock your house when you go to bed. Lock your car... You have to lock your doors around here! There's already cheaters in the HOF and if a player was always a HOF'er, I'm not going to keep him out, so I would vote for the likes of Ramirez, Clemens and Bonds. That said, I don't think Manny has a snowballs chance in Hades of ever getting in. I agree... and also people over play the significance of steroids, in my opinion. Bonds, Clemens, Manny... they would all be HOF if they didn't juice.... They're 3 of the best players EVER... and I think even without the steroids, they would STILL be 3 of the best players of their generation... Someone equated this to the sign stealing scandal... NO! The sign stealing is much worse... the whole team got an edge from it... it was orchestrated from the top to the bottom of the organization... MLB pitchers even agree, they would rather face someone who's juiced up than someone who knows what pitch is coming. The steroid scandal, as far as it's publicly known, is an individual gaining an edge, not the whole team with help from management/ownership... It's not like George Steinbrenner was going around buying roid's in bulk and sticking needles in people's asses... You had ownership okaying purchase orders to buy equipment for the sign stealing... you had emails to scouts asking them to cheat... like I said, top to bottom of the organization was involved... I think, IMO, the whole steroid debate is tired... it happened, hopefully MLB is doing all they can to make sure it's never going to happen again... but we can't forget the history... and the HOF is a museum... we can't rewrite history... let the players in... Sorry if I was all over the place in that... |
|
|
|
HOF ballot
Nov 23, 2019 20:03:25 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by inger on Nov 23, 2019 20:03:25 GMT -5
You have to lock your doors around here! There's already cheaters in the HOF and if a player was always a HOF'er, I'm not going to keep him out, so I would vote for the likes of Ramirez, Clemens and Bonds. That said, I don't think Manny has a snowballs chance in Hades of ever getting in. I agree... and also people over play the significance of steroids, in my opinion. Bonds, Clemens, Manny... they would all be HOF if they didn't juice.... They're 3 of the best players EVER... and I think even without the steroids, they would STILL be 3 of the best players of their generation... Someone equated this to the sign stealing scandal... NO! The sign stealing is much worse... the whole team got an edge from it... it was orchestrated from the top to the bottom of the organization... MLB pitchers even agree, they would rather face someone who's juiced up than someone who knows what pitch is coming. The steroid scandal, as far as it's publicly known, is an individual gaining an edge, not the whole team with help from management/ownership... It's not like George Steinbrenner was going around buying roid's in bulk and sticking needles in people's asses... You had ownership okaying purchase orders to buy equipment for the sign stealing... you had emails to scouts asking them to cheat... like I said, top to bottom of the organization was involved... I think, IMO, the whole steroid debate is tired... it happened, hopefully MLB is doing all they can to make sure it's never going to happen again... but we can't forget the history... and the HOF is a museum... we can't rewrite history... let the players in... Sorry if I was all over the place in that... I don’t care if you took a direct route or wandered to the conclusion. The conclusion that because they would have been great players anyway they’re “deserving” of some kind of forgiveness, or even to ignore what they did is faulty logic. I’ll say that’s your opinion, and will sit firmly on the other side. The fact these may have been uber-talented individuals perhaps makes their actions even more deplorable. The stakes were such that either way they would have been handsomely rewarded in so many ways. Fan adoration, remuneration, awards, and acclaim were all there for them. As it is some fans like yourself are willing to go easy on them. Go swing on their jockstraps if you must, I won’t be there with you. That defines my ethics... |
|
|
|
Post by sierchio on Nov 23, 2019 23:55:35 GMT -5
I honestly don't see steroids as THAT big of a deal...
|
|
|
|
Post by sierchio on Nov 24, 2019 1:26:31 GMT -5
*****Younger players, in my research, won't benefit as much from steroids, as older players.. helping increase their prime into their later years...******
Just stating.. I know, it could make or break HOF cases... but that's not my point...
My point is history happened.. you can't change the past... Bonds broke the HR record.. he was on steroids... it helped him... he cheated to do it... but he still did it..
That's like saying you're gonna take away the Astro's 2017 WS... it happened.. you can't take it away... you can't rewrite history..
|
|
|
|
Post by sierchio on Nov 24, 2019 1:46:35 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by sierchio on Nov 24, 2019 2:57:12 GMT -5
Here's a pitcher using testosterone in the 1800's... www.history.com/news/baseballs-first-fountain-of-youthOf course, it's not as sophisticated as now-a-days... I've brought up countless times in this debate about Babe Ruth taking testosterone in the form of shooting up sheep testicles.. Let's ban him from the hall!!! Is this like the Astro's stealing signs as in , they've always done it but they took it too far? Athletes have been using testosterone as far back as Ancient Greece.. of course, not as potent of steroids of today... they aim for the same effect... |
|
|
|
Post by sierchio on Nov 24, 2019 2:59:49 GMT -5
According to author David Zirin, the beastly batter sought an unfair edge with his era's equivalent of steroids. Ruth's cheat of choice: sheep testicle extract. In an interview with NPR, Zirin explained that the science of steroids was still relatively new. Originally explored as a way to increase worker productivity during the Industrial Revolution, steroids caught the attention of the sports world during the 1920s. The prospect of enhanced abilities proved irresistible to Ruth, who desired not only to hit harder but to be harder during sex. Unfortunately for Ruth, sheep testicles didn't hold the key to better ball hitting or boot-knocking. A single shot of the stuff severely sickened him, giving a whole new meaning to the term "foul ball." Embarrassed, the Yankees passed off Ruth's resulting illness as "one of his famous bellyaches." So maybe he was Horatio Alger on steroids. Read More: www.grunge.com/95567/untold-truth-babe-ruth/?utm_campaign=clipEDIT: PLEASE read that link everyone. I knew of most of these occurances... I was OBSESSED with Ruth as a kid.. but reading them again made me chuckle... if a baseball player did half the shit Ruth did today... everyone would hate on him. Imagine Ruth with Twitter... |
|
|
|
Post by sierchio on Nov 24, 2019 3:04:17 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by inger on Nov 24, 2019 4:03:40 GMT -5
Here's a pitcher using testosterone in the 1800's... www.history.com/news/baseballs-first-fountain-of-youthOf course, it's not as sophisticated as now-a-days... I've brought up countless times in this debate about Babe Ruth taking testosterone in the form of shooting up sheep testicles.. Let's ban him from the hall!!! Is this like the Astro's stealing signs as in , they've always done it but they took it too far? Athletes have been using testosterone as far back as Ancient Greece.. of course, not as potent of steroids of today... they aim for the same effect... The poor logic trail continues. If player “A” attempted something that doesn’t give carte blanche to other players to to attempt to use an entirely different substance at a subsequent date. And that’s true even you don’t factor in the legality of the substances at the time player “A” attempted to use a substance... Really. Apply these logistics to your life. With reasoning like what you’re exhibiting it can be difficult to keep your day to day shit together... Simple phrase here. Right is right, wrong is wrong... |
|
|
|
HOF ballot
Nov 24, 2019 10:20:25 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by greatfatness on Nov 24, 2019 10:20:25 GMT -5
I honestly don't see steroids as THAT big of a deal... Everyone is entitled to their opinion so nothing I am going to say is intended to suggest that you’re wrong or that there’s something wrong with your thinking. I might agree if it was understood that PEDs were allowed. Then the people trying to follow the rules wouldn’t be competing on an uneven playing field and penalized for following the rules at the expense of players cheating surreptitiously. You could imagine a world where all that mattered was what players did on the field by whatever means they could achieve it. In that world the player with the best combination of ability and access to the worlds best chemists would win. In that world, I also would stop watching, much as I don’t find the staged pseudo drama of professional wrestling to be of any interest. But a lot of people probably would watch. It wouldn’t bear much resemblance to the sport we grew up with. |
|
|
|
HOF ballot
Nov 24, 2019 13:04:18 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by inger on Nov 24, 2019 13:04:18 GMT -5
I honestly don't see steroids as THAT big of a deal... Everyone is entitled to their opinion so nothing I am going to say is intended to suggest that you’re wrong or that there’s something wrong with your thinking. I might agree if it was understood that PEDs were allowed. Then the people trying to follow the rules wouldn’t be competing on an uneven playing field and penalized for following the rules at the expense of players cheating surreptitiously. You could imagine a world where all that mattered was what players did on the field by whatever means they could achieve it. In that world the player with the best combination of ability and access to the worlds best chemists would win. In that world, I also would stop watching, much as I don’t find the staged pseudo drama of professional wrestling to be of any interest. But a lot of people probably would watch. It wouldn’t bear much resemblance to the sport we grew up with. Pro Wrestling. That’s just what the Bonds-McGwire-Sosa days reminded me of. Growing hat sizes, rumors of shriveling testicles, 60+ homer seasons that didn’t lead the league. Add to that former 15 HR hitters suddenly popping for 57. The only thing missing was that none of the players married the owner’s ugly daughter who’s bra size suddenly tripled... |
|
|
|
Post by noetsi on Nov 25, 2019 20:33:11 GMT -5
I think manny's poor defense and lack of commitment to anyone but his self did not help. I remember how upset Boston posters were when he refused a request to play the OF for Boston.
|
|
