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Post by noetsi on Apr 18, 2022 21:13:35 GMT -5
I much prefer your music analysis than your baseball analysis, noetsi.  I know a lot more about history than baseball and it shows... You were right about that 30 years in college.  |
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Post by noetsi on Apr 18, 2022 21:14:30 GMT -5
The sixties is my favorite era for music. There are some misremembered "facts" about it. One is that in began in 1960, in fact much of what we think about the music of the sixties does not start until Feb 1964 when the decade is almost half over (and it continued well into the seventies, decades are artificial constructs we give meaning to by ignoring history).  Another is all the supposed protest music, particularly anti-war songs. While they existed, sky pilot comes to mind, few were popular in that decade. Fighting Men of the Green Beret was the number one song I think in 1965. And it was not anti-war. Armstrong's popularity, it continued to his death, was remarkable for a generation which stressed youth and often ridiculed earlier artists (often with scant knowledge of facts, the big band era was seen as the ultimate in old foggie music, at the time it was produced it was often seen as a radical challenge to the existing culture). Music was one of the few places before the sixties that minorities, women, and rural types could have significant cultural influence. You surprised me here, Russ. I thought you might have been the elevator music type. You seem quite “hip” about the 60’s, my man. Like maybe you did a little “groovin”, on a Sunday afternoon. Riding on the storm. Finding your way to San Jose (put a hundred down and buy a car!)… |
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Post by noetsi on Apr 18, 2022 21:23:18 GMT -5
You surprised me here, Russ. I thought you might have been the elevator music type. You seem quite “hip” about the 60’s, my man. Like maybe you did a little “groovin”, on a Sunday afternoon. Riding on the storm. Finding your way to San Jose (put a hundred down and buy a car!)… My first master's, and favorite research area, was in Soviet Studies where I wrote papers on terrorism and nuclear weapons among other esoteric topics. It does not pay the bills. Violence is wrong, but I remain fascinated by it and there are no decades as violent as the sixties. I like fast up tempo music which was a hall mark of the sixties, but rare these days. R&B as it was called then is not my favorite music of that era - and the doors are bit too immoral for me to listen to them anymore.  A personal favorite of mine is to imagine movie scenes and link them to ironic music. This is very easy in the sixties where coherent words were more important than they later became. I always thought a mission impossible team leader (which is several levels above Mr Hunt in the chain of command) shaking hands with Andrea Von Strucker to the tune of chain of fools would be awesome. Probably most don't know the Struckers. Marvel chose do downplay them in the movies (after making their organization incredibly important without them). |
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Post by inger on Apr 18, 2022 21:38:41 GMT -5
My first master's, and favorite research area, was in Soviet Studies where I wrote papers on terrorism and nuclear weapons among other esoteric topics. It does not pay the bills. Violence is wrong, but I remain fascinated by it and there are no decades as violent as the sixties. I like fast up tempo music which was a hall mark of the sixties, but rare these days. R&B as it was called then is not my favorite music of that era - and the doors are bit too immoral for me to listen to them anymore. A personal favorite of mine is to imagine movie scenes and link them to ironic music. This is very easy in the sixties where coherent words were more important than they later became. I always thought a mission impossible team leader (which is several levels above Mr Hunt in the chain of command) shaking hands with Andrea Von Strucker to the tune of chain of fools would be awesome. Probably most don't know the Struckers. Marvel chose do downplay them in the movies (after making their organization incredibly important without them). How about Georgie Fame and the Blue Flames and Bonnie and Clyde, circa 1967? Was that in your wheelhouse? It came out after the Warren Beatty / Faye Dunaway movie that pushed the boundaries for sex and violence on the silver screen for the times. Compared to today’s sex or violence, it’s tame… |
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Post by noetsi on Apr 18, 2022 21:43:33 GMT -5
The sixties are unusual in that music became associated in the public's mind with politics (this happened in the folk era in the thirties, but its not clear how many paid attention to that). Arguably folk music or folk rock was where this was dominant - ironically it declined with the British Invasion. Although some rock musicians did protests their music almost never did. It is the comments of the musicians and not the music that is political for the most part.
Our image of what was popular is also not super accurate. The monkey's were far more popular than nearly any rock group in the 66-67 era and the second most popular song of the entire decades was Sugar Sugar, a song written for children tv (I watched it) by a group that was essentially fictional (one could argue this was true of the Monkey's as well).
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Post by noetsi on Apr 18, 2022 21:44:43 GMT -5
My first master's, and favorite research area, was in Soviet Studies where I wrote papers on terrorism and nuclear weapons among other esoteric topics. It does not pay the bills. Violence is wrong, but I remain fascinated by it and there are no decades as violent as the sixties. I like fast up tempo music which was a hall mark of the sixties, but rare these days. R&B as it was called then is not my favorite music of that era - and the doors are bit too immoral for me to listen to them anymore. A personal favorite of mine is to imagine movie scenes and link them to ironic music. This is very easy in the sixties where coherent words were more important than they later became. I always thought a mission impossible team leader (which is several levels above Mr Hunt in the chain of command) shaking hands with Andrea Von Strucker to the tune of chain of fools would be awesome. Probably most don't know the Struckers. Marvel chose do downplay them in the movies (after making their organization incredibly important without them). How about Georgie Fame and the Blue Flames and Bonnie and Clyde, circa 1967? Was that in your wheelhouse? It came out after the Warren Beatty / Faye Dunaway movie that pushed the boundaries for sex and violence on the silver screen for the times. Compared to today’s sex or violence, it’s tame… I know it, a bit too slow for me. The early beatles are my favorite type of music. |
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Post by inger on Apr 18, 2022 22:12:52 GMT -5
The sixties are unusual in that music became associated in the public's mind with politics (this happened in the folk era in the thirties, but its not clear how many paid attention to that). Arguably folk music or folk rock was where this was dominant - ironically it declined with the British Invasion. Although some rock musicians did protests their music almost never did. It is the comments of the musicians and not the music that is political for the most part. Our image of what was popular is also not super accurate. The monkey's were far more popular than nearly any rock group in the 66-67 era and the second most popular song of the entire decades was Sugar Sugar, a song written for children tv (I watched it) by a group that was essentially fictional (one could argue this was true of the Monkey's as well). While the Monkees (watch that spelling!) were made for TV, their musical talents exceeded what many believe. They were exactly Milli Vanilli out there. All but Peter Torkelson had ample opportunity to show their vocal chops, Dolenz and Nesmith were excellent musicians. My least favorite tunes were mostly the ones where Davy Jones was the lead vocalist, though even Davy struck a chord with me occasionally. Tork was also a decent session-type musician at the least… Sugar, Sugar was too saccharine sweet for me, and having it performed by cartoon characters was enough to make it puke-able. But yes. I was aware it was the #1 of the decade. The Beatles all but slayed the folk dragon as Peter, Paul, and Mary along with the Mamas and the Papas all but shriveled away. For me, the Beatles were no more than okay. It was too much, too fast, and much of it was too much alike before they started to get (publicly) stoned and introspective. Probably better once they started to have petty jealousies and power hunger… |
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Post by Renfield on Apr 19, 2022 3:20:17 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaken, "Sugar, Sugar" was written by Andy Kim who had a hit with a song called "Rock Me Gently" in the 70's--a song that sounds like a Neil Diamond tune to me.
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Post by pippsheadache on Apr 19, 2022 5:42:04 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaken, "Sugar, Sugar" was written by Andy Kim who had a hit with a song called "Rock Me Gently" in the 70's--a song that sounds like a Neil Diamond tune to me. Yep, "Sugar Sugar" was co-written by Andy Kim and fellow Brill Building tunesmith Jeff Barry. It had a very different feel in the hands of Wilson Pickett and Bob Marley, who both covered it. It does sound like a Neil Diamond song -- even the vocals sound Diamondesque -- but "Rock Me Gently" was both written and performed by Kim. Of course they were both part of Don Kirschner's production line, so maybe no wonder there was a similarity. Andy Kim also had modest hits in the late 60s with "Baby How'd We Ever Get This Way" and an inferior but better-selling cover of The Ronettes' "Baby I Love You." That song had also been co-written by Jeff Barry and his wife/songwriting partner Ellie Greenwich. The gruff-voiced guy who recorded "Rock Me Gently" sounds quite different from the soft-toned guy who did "Baby How'd We Ever Get This Way" but he's one and the same. I hate even writing about The Archies, but for the record they were mostly the project of a guy named Ron Dante, who did most of the male vocals through overdubbing. He was also the front man for another bubblegum group, The Cuff Links, who had a hit with "Tracy" in 1969. In fact for a few weeks in October 1969, both "Sugar Sugar" and "Tracy" were in the Top Ten. It was really that bad. |
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Post by inger on Apr 19, 2022 7:49:44 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaken, "Sugar, Sugar" was written by Andy Kim who had a hit with a song called "Rock Me Gently" in the 70's--a song that sounds like a Neil Diamond tune to me. Yes, a perfect copy of Neil Diamond. I liked that song enough to spend 79 cents on the vinyl. Of course this comes from me, the guy who thought Kim Carnes was Rod Stewart on “Betty Davis Eyes”. My older brother loved Elvis Presley so much that he became infuriated with me, really truly angry when I told him that this b side by Jay (Black) and the Americans sounded more like Elvis than Elvis… Jay (The Voice) Black. He was a great one. Listen up below… youtu.be/p8jOe_4n9y0 |
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Post by noetsi on Apr 19, 2022 19:28:43 GMT -5
Sugar Sugar was not the biggest song of the sixties. Hey Jude was. Sugar Sugar was 2nd.
Andy Kim actually had a number of hits he sung. I actually like Be My Baby.
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Post by noetsi on Apr 19, 2022 19:30:30 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaken, "Sugar, Sugar" was written by Andy Kim who had a hit with a song called "Rock Me Gently" in the 70's--a song that sounds like a Neil Diamond tune to me. Yep, "Sugar Sugar" was co-written by Andy Kim and fellow Brill Building tunesmith Jeff Barry. It had a very different feel in the hands of Wilson Pickett and Bob Marley, who both covered it. It does sound like a Neil Diamond song -- even the vocals sound Diamondesque -- but "Rock Me Gently" was both written and performed by Kim. Of course they were both part of Don Kirschner's production line, so maybe no wonder there was a similarity. Andy Kim also had modest hits in the late 60s with "Baby How'd We Ever Get This Way" and an inferior but better-selling cover of The Ronettes' "Baby I Love You." That song had also been co-written by Jeff Barry and his wife/songwriting partner Ellie Greenwich. The gruff-voiced guy who recorded "Rock Me Gently" sounds quite different from the soft-toned guy who did "Baby How'd We Ever Get This Way" but he's one and the same. I hate even writing about The Archies, but for the record they were mostly the project of a guy named Ron Dante, who did most of the male vocals through overdubbing. He was also the front man for another bubblegum group, The Cuff Links, who had a hit with "Tracy" in 1969. In fact for a few weeks in October 1969, both "Sugar Sugar" and "Tracy" were in the Top Ten. It was really that bad. Could it be worse than the Partridge Family. |
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Post by inger on Apr 19, 2022 20:08:34 GMT -5
Yep, "Sugar Sugar" was co-written by Andy Kim and fellow Brill Building tunesmith Jeff Barry. It had a very different feel in the hands of Wilson Pickett and Bob Marley, who both covered it. It does sound like a Neil Diamond song -- even the vocals sound Diamondesque -- but "Rock Me Gently" was both written and performed by Kim. Of course they were both part of Don Kirschner's production line, so maybe no wonder there was a similarity. Andy Kim also had modest hits in the late 60s with "Baby How'd We Ever Get This Way" and an inferior but better-selling cover of The Ronettes' "Baby I Love You." That song had also been co-written by Jeff Barry and his wife/songwriting partner Ellie Greenwich. The gruff-voiced guy who recorded "Rock Me Gently" sounds quite different from the soft-toned guy who did "Baby How'd We Ever Get This Way" but he's one and the same. I hate even writing about The Archies, but for the record they were mostly the project of a guy named Ron Dante, who did most of the male vocals through overdubbing. He was also the front man for another bubblegum group, The Cuff Links, who had a hit with "Tracy" in 1969. In fact for a few weeks in October 1969, both "Sugar Sugar" and "Tracy" were in the Top Ten. It was really that bad. Could it be worse than the Partridge Family. I actually thought David Cassidy was a pretty good singer… |
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Post by noetsi on Apr 19, 2022 20:14:07 GMT -5
Could it be worse than the Partridge Family.  I actually thought David Cassidy was a pretty good singer… I thought some of the Monkee songs were ok. The shows, both of them, were not. |
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Post by inger on Apr 19, 2022 22:21:59 GMT -5
I actually thought David Cassidy was a pretty good singer… I thought some of the Monkee songs were ok. The shows, both of them, were not. The Monkees had some hilarious moments… Hey Russ! You fixed the spelling! |
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