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Post by rizzuto on Jan 13, 2024 11:47:24 GMT -5
For a long time, I defended Cashman, but the trades at the 2021 and 2022 deadlines were highly questionable. For me, the Montas trade was the final straw. Even if none of the pitchers traded to the A's makes it big, they traded for a pitcher whose health was an extreme risk, and they got less than nothing for 3 viable pitching prospects. I now think that after 25 years in charge of the organization, the Yankees need another man's philosophy/vision in charge of the team. As Robert Kraft concluded earlier this week, sports is a bottom line business. Despite the history the past decade disappointed Yankee fans. Bellichick did not win without Brady and Cashman did not win without Jeter. Time to move on. Even Yankee fans forget that though the 2009 team had the infusion of Teixeira and Sabathia, and ARod finally getting a big hit in the playoffs, the 2009 Championship team was led in WAR by Derek Jeter. Mo finished every World Series game win, and Pettitte won twice as the starting pitcher. And, Posada was behind the plate. |
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Post by ypaterson on Jan 13, 2024 12:00:48 GMT -5
As Robert Kraft concluded earlier this week, sports is a bottom line business. Despite the history the past decade disappointed Yankee fans. Bellichick did not win without Brady and Cashman did not win without Jeter. Time to move on. Even Yankee fans forget that though the 2009 team had the infusion of Teixeira and Sabathia, and ARod finally getting a big hit in the playoffs, the 2009 Championship team was led in WAR by Derek Jeter. Mo finished every World Series game win, and Pettitte won twice as the starting pitcher. And, Posada was behind the plate. Great points. IMO Cashman's biggest failure as GM concerns his handling of the guys responsibile for the success of the Yankees during his tenure. As Joe Torres observed, he did not understand the human side of baseball. At times I thought that Cashman could not wait for the "Core" guys to leave to build his won team. And after 2004 I think Cashman developed a serious case of "Theo" envy. But I cannot prove any of that. |
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Post by inger on Jan 13, 2024 12:02:02 GMT -5
If you don’t understand I don’t see the point in trying to explain it to you… Yeah because i didnt dismiss what you said, i said you were right but that hal wasnt the topic of this thread which it isnt . Dismissing you would have been if i just said hal wasnt the topic of this thread and then said nothing more . Cant dissmiss something you acknowledge to be true are valid . You were an only child, perhaps?… |
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Post by rizzuto on Jan 13, 2024 12:14:20 GMT -5
Even Yankee fans forget that though the 2009 team had the infusion of Teixeira and Sabathia, and ARod finally getting a big hit in the playoffs, the 2009 Championship team was led in WAR by Derek Jeter. Mo finished every World Series game win, and Pettitte won twice as the starting pitcher. And, Posada was behind the plate. Great points. IMO Cashman's biggest failure as GM concerns his handling of the guys responsibile for the success of the Yankees during his tenure. As Joe Torres observed, he did not understand the human side of baseball. At times I thought that Cashman could not wait for the "Core" guys to leave to build his won team. And after 2004 I think Cashman developed a serious case of "Theo" envy. But I cannot prove any of that. . I had forgotten that Torre quote, which is revealing in my estimation. Admittedly, I had the same impression of Cashman and the Core Four. Something in his demeanor and speech whenever those names arose gave me the sense he wanted to be rid of any threads to teams constructed with others’ fingerprints. |
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Post by Max on Jan 13, 2024 12:19:32 GMT -5
Do the Yankees get past the Mariners without David Justice? Tell me who traded for him? Wouldn't you agree that El Duque was a big part of the Yankees dynasty teams? Do you know who was the Yankees GM that signed him? Hint: It was the same GM that traded for Clemens, the same Clemens that played a big role in the Yankees success. Cashman traded for justice because george demanded cashman to go out and trade for another bat because the offense was struggling badly that season . Oh and it was george who pushed cashman to trade for clemens because he had been after clemens since he became a free agent and went to the jays instead . Just like hal forced cashman to trade for soto just days after cashman said that he refused to give up both king and thorpe for soto .
Really? Who told you that George "demanded" Cashman to go and trade for another bat? Did Hal use Chinese water torturer to "force" Cashman to trade for Soto? This is the 2nd time you brought up George when he came to the Yankees success when Cashman was the Yankees GM. George gets the credit when things go well, but Cashman gets the blame when things don't go well? Is that it?
Did Hal "force" Cashman to trade for Donaldson and Montas too? Or Does Hal just do that when the Yankees make a good trade?
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Post by bomberhojoe on Jan 13, 2024 12:21:03 GMT -5
Even Yankee fans forget that though the 2009 team had the infusion of Teixeira and Sabathia, and ARod finally getting a big hit in the playoffs, the 2009 Championship team was led in WAR by Derek Jeter. Mo finished every World Series game win, and Pettitte won twice as the starting pitcher. And, Posada was behind the plate. Great points. IMO Cashman's biggest failure as GM concerns his handling of the guys responsibile for the success of the Yankees during his tenure. As Joe Torres observed, he did not understand the human side of baseball. At times I thought that Cashman could not wait for the "Core" guys to leave to build his won team. And after 2004 I think Cashman developed a serious case of "Theo" envy. But I cannot prove any of that. It seems fairly obvious that Cashman has a big ego, and I always thought Torre was spot on about a lack of human understanding. Cashman has always come across as very cold, and maybe that's good in most business. However, when your business' chief commodity is people, I think that's a big negative. |
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Post by inger on Jan 13, 2024 12:24:04 GMT -5
Great points. IMO Cashman's biggest failure as GM concerns his handling of the guys responsibile for the success of the Yankees during his tenure. As Joe Torres observed, he did not understand the human side of baseball. At times I thought that Cashman could not wait for the "Core" guys to leave to build his won team. And after 2004 I think Cashman developed a serious case of "Theo" envy. But I cannot prove any of that. . I had forgotten that Torre quote, which is revealing in my estimation. Admittedly, I had the same impression of Cashman and the Core Four. Something in his demeanor and speech whenever those names arose gave me the sense he wanted to be rid of any threads to teams constructed with others’ fingerprints. Cash does seem like he’s emotionless to me… To a degree you have to take the emotion out of decision-making. Yet if you take all emotion away I think there’s something missing from the recipe when the goal is building a team… |
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Post by Max on Jan 13, 2024 12:26:40 GMT -5
posadafan is correct. In the same way, and as other posters have noted, Cashman's early and almost only successes while a GM were mostly due either to George or Bob Watson's moves along with Gene Michael's influence. If Belichick has to leave the Patriots after unbelievable successes in the "Big" game, so can Cashman go after his lack of successes in the "Big" game.
Actually he's wrong. Cashman added key players to the Yankees dynasty teams. If you want to rightfully blame Cashman for some mistakes, that's fair. He's not perfect, neither was Watson, George, or Gene Michael. But at least be fair and give Cashman the credit he deserves. I know some posters on here and some people off line that aren't fans of Cashman, but at least they give him credit for the right move he's made.
Maybe I can get an answer from you...Tell me..Who's won more world series since Cashman's been the Yankees GM?
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Post by Max on Jan 13, 2024 12:29:59 GMT -5
By the same token in recent years Hal had refused to increase his budget while other teams were increasing theirs… You are right but this thread is about cashman and how he has been as GM . Its not about hal at all .
You're the one that brought up Hal, and George too. |
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Post by rizzuto on Jan 13, 2024 12:36:30 GMT -5
Great points. IMO Cashman's biggest failure as GM concerns his handling of the guys responsibile for the success of the Yankees during his tenure. As Joe Torres observed, he did not understand the human side of baseball. At times I thought that Cashman could not wait for the "Core" guys to leave to build his won team. And after 2004 I think Cashman developed a serious case of "Theo" envy. But I cannot prove any of that. It seems fairly obvious that Cashman has a big ego, and I always thought Torre was spot on about a lack of human understanding. Cashman has always come across as very cold, and maybe that's good in most business. However, when your business' chief commodity is people, I think that's a big negative. I’ll never forget the disdain in Jeter’s eyes after his free agency, which he wanted to remain private as he declared to Cashman et al at the outset that he would never play for another team, essentially diffusing any device to have another team in the bidding. Yet, Cashman took advantage of Jeter’s honesty, telling the media Jeter should test the market as a public negotiating ploy. When Jeter was announced to have re-signed, Cashman said on the dais, “Welcome back.” Jeter replied with a glare at Cashman, “I never left.” Cashman behaved similarly with Judge, who is even more diplomatic than Jeter. My guess is this was the reason Hal intervened in ensuring Judge was signed to be a lifetime Yankee. |
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Post by posadafan24 on Jan 13, 2024 12:42:05 GMT -5
posadafan is correct. In the same way, and as other posters have noted, Cashman's early and almost only successes while a GM were mostly due either to George or Bob Watson's moves along with Gene Michael's influence. If Belichick has to leave the Patriots after unbelievable successes in the "Big" game, so can Cashman go after his lack of successes in the "Big" game.
Actually he's wrong. Cashman added key players to the Yankees dynasty teams. If you want to rightfully blame Cashman for some mistakes, that's fair. He's not perfect, neither was Watson, George, or Gene Michael. But at least be fair and give Cashman the credit he deserves. I know some posters on here and some people off line that aren't fans of Cashman, but at least they give him credit for the right move he's made.
Maybe I can get an answer from you...Tell me..Who's won more world series since Cashman's been the Yankees GM?
I answered the question several times i wont answer again . Especially when cashman had little to nothing to do with them . But here is a question i got for you . How many ws have the yankees been to since cashman got full control back in 03 or 04? |
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Post by inger on Jan 13, 2024 12:42:59 GMT -5
You are right but this thread is about cashman and how he has been as GM . Its not about hal at all .
You're the one that brought up Hal, and George too. Hmm. Yeah, I kind of missed that he brought up Hal, but I “can’t” because Hal’s not what the thread title is about. I think I’m going to need him to write me a rule book so I can learn how to post on a forum he just joined… 🤓 |
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Post by posadafan24 on Jan 13, 2024 12:44:07 GMT -5
You're the one that brought up Hal, and George too. Hmm. Yeah, I kind of missed that he brought up Hal, but I “can’t” because Hal’s not what the thread title is about. I think I’m going to need him to write me a rule book so I can learn how to post on a forum he just joined… 🤓 I said you were right about hal , what more of a response do you want? |
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Post by Max on Jan 13, 2024 12:45:10 GMT -5
That may be convenient for you, but I don’t accept that. Cashman works for Hal, who creates the budget and also has the final say over any deal Cashman constructs. You are not allowed to dismiss anyone else’s comments just because it’s convenient for you to do so. You wouldn’t like it if others dismissed yours. We all get the same amount of space in the sandbox… Cashman gets a lot more freedom than most gms do . In fact almost no GM would survive the crap cashman has over the years .
That's not a fact, that's your opinion. Big difference.
Cashman is still the GM because the Yankees for the large majority of the time over the last 25 years since Cashman has been their GM have been a good team and world series contenders.
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Post by inger on Jan 13, 2024 12:48:58 GMT -5
It seems fairly obvious that Cashman has a big ego, and I always thought Torre was spot on about a lack of human understanding. Cashman has always come across as very cold, and maybe that's good in most business. However, when your business' chief commodity is people, I think that's a big negative. I’ll never forget the disdain in Jeter’s eyes after his free agency, which he wanted to remain private as he declared to Cashman et al at the outset that he would never play for another team, essentially diffusing any device to have another team in the bidding. Yet, Cashman took advantage of Jeter’s honesty, telling the media Jeter should test the market as a public negotiating ploy. When Jeter was announced to have re-signed, Cashman said on the dais, “Welcome back.” Jeter replied with a glare at Cashman, “I never left.” Cashman behaved similarly with Judge, who is even more diplomatic than Jeter. My guess is this was the reason Hal intervened in ensuring Judge was signed to be a lifetime Yankee. Know what? I have a tendency to blow off bull crap like those events, kind of mentally sweep them under the rug as “just negotiating ploys”. I’ve been a Cashman supporter and I’m starting to see the light. He is very cold and whenever he does interject anything it tends to be ungrateful to players. I’m going to switch to the other side. I do think it’s time for a change. Seriously. Your one post right here has made me see the light on this circumstance. I want a new GM… This one’s broken… |
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