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Post by posadafan24 on Feb 5, 2024 12:27:31 GMT -5
They are not only nasty , they seem to have a habit of going off point in hopes of starting drama too And/or evading genuine baseball questions that don't support their opinion. You come for a discussion and you get mud slinging instead. So true . Its people like him who helped kill the yes board because that kind mud slinging would chase away anyone who had a difference of opinion from him and a few others . In the end it was only the same 7 or 8 people who posted in the baseball forum at yes . |
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Post by qwik3457bb on Feb 5, 2024 15:03:46 GMT -5
Ideally, yes, you'd want a leadoff hitter with top speed and an elite OBA. But the Phillies have led off with Kyle Schwarber for two years now, and won a pennant one year and got to the NLCS the next year. Altuve used to be extremely fast, but his sprint speed has fallen below Verdugo's. The O's have Rutschman leading off for them, and his sprint speed is below Verdugo's as well. Given a choice between a leadoff man with a high OBA and mediocre to poor speed and a leadoff man who's top 20 in sprint speed but can't crack .310 in OBA, I'll take the slower guy every time. But, yes, you're right. Ideally, you want both. Like Trea Turner or Mookie Betts. Wade Boggs was one of the best leadoff hitters in the American League and he couldn't run a lick. Of course. Forgot about him. batting leadoff was the spot in the order he had the most plate appearances at, even though he hit 2nd and 3rd more often than 1st in his career. Also there was Brian Downing, a sluggardly backup catcher, left fielder, DH-type, who after he altered his stance to hit for power, batted leadoff for the 1982 Angels squad that won the West and lost in the ALCS to the Harvey's Wallbangers Brewers team that got edged by Bruce Sutter and Whitey Herzog's running Cards in the World Series. |
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Post by qimqam on Feb 5, 2024 15:14:04 GMT -5
I wonder when the scouting reports came out on Gleyber's arm strength? The latest ratings they keep on baseball savant would seem to suggest it's very poor at this point in his career. Consider: baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/arm-strengthbaseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/gleyber-torres-650402?stats=statcast-r-fielding-mlbThey are looking only at the top 5% of throws by MPH, so they are measuring throws that are in situations where the fielder is going all-out, ie only close plays. Easy plays with casual lobs/flips are being excluded. Gleyber averages 75.9 MPH on his top throws and rates an 8 out of 100 in arm strength. If you compare him to all the other 3b, he would be the second worst in the league. There are a bunch of 3b who average close to 90 MPH and a few over that. It's a pretty huge difference to go from 75 to 90, just imagine any pitcher trying to make it in the majors throwing 75 MPH fastballs vs throwing 90+. This is quite interesting. Thanks for bringing to our attention. There’s a significant drop since 2020 of over 11 MPH… Coukd he have hurt his arm playing SS? .. C'mon You have to throw harder from SS and even harder from 3rd base. You usually dont have to throw 90 mph to a guy that is 10-20 feet away from you |
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Post by inger on Feb 5, 2024 15:22:49 GMT -5
This is quite interesting. Thanks for bringing to our attention. There’s a significant drop since 2020 of over 11 MPH… Coukd he have hurt his arm playing SS? .. C'mon You have to throw harder from SS and even harder from 3rd base. You usually dont have to throw 90 mph to a guy that is 10-20 feet away from you It’s quite a difference from some other 2B as well. I have noticed that quite a few of Gleyber’s throws to first are lazy side arm tosses, so I’m still not sure what to make of the stat for a 2B… |
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Post by posadafan24 on Feb 5, 2024 15:37:36 GMT -5
C'mon You have to throw harder from SS and even harder from 3rd base. You usually dont have to throw 90 mph to a guy that is 10-20 feet away from you It’s quite a difference from some other 2B as well. I have noticed that quite a few of Gleyber’s throws to first are lazy side arm tosses, so I’m still not sure what to make of the stat for a 2B… Yet even more proof that its not a very good idea to move torres to third |
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Post by inger on Feb 5, 2024 15:47:51 GMT -5
It’s quite a difference from some other 2B as well. I have noticed that quite a few of Gleyber’s throws to first are lazy side arm tosses, so I’m still not sure what to make of the stat for a 2B… Yet even more proof that its not a very good idea to move torres to third 😂 Grind it to dust. 😂… |
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Post by posadafan24 on Feb 5, 2024 15:52:20 GMT -5
Yet even more proof that its not a very good idea to move torres to third 😂 Grind it to dust. 😂… Its like the only thing still talked about in this thread |
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Post by qimqam on Feb 5, 2024 16:37:35 GMT -5
A very strong throwing arm helps, but it's not a must for a 3Bman. Not much of a difference between Nettles' arm and Torres' arm. Torres wasn't moved off of SS because he lacked a strong arm. Buddy Bell and Aurelio Rodríguez has excellent arms, but Nettles made all the strong throws that he need to make. Since the ball more often than not gets to 3B quick, I wish I had a dollar for every time Nettles made a rainbow throw to 1B.
I think you missed how baseball savant calculates the average MPH on throws. They are only counting the top 5% of the player's throws by top MPH. Those are the ones that are made on close plays, not the rainbows. Gleyber's hardest throws are essentially rainbows. In 2020 - Gleybers avg throw from SS was 87.6 MPH (4th among all SS, 2nd compared to all 3B, 1st compared to all 2B, 5th among all INFers and 39th in the MLB) In 2021 - Gleybers avg throw from SS was 86.5 MPH (9th among all SS) In 2021 - Gleybers avg throw from 2B was 75.1 MPH (65th among all 2B and the lowest of his 2b Career) So if Gleyber wants to or needs to throw the ball hard ... he's got a plus arm |
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Post by themartian on Feb 5, 2024 16:43:50 GMT -5
I think you missed how baseball savant calculates the average MPH on throws. They are only counting the top 5% of the player's throws by top MPH. Those are the ones that are made on close plays, not the rainbows. Gleyber's hardest throws are essentially rainbows. In 2020 - Gleybers avg throw from SS was 87.6 MPH (4th among all SS, 2nd compared to all 3B, 1st compared to all 2B, 5th among all INFers and 39th in the MLB) In 2021 - Gleybers avg throw from SS was 86.5 MPH (9th among all SS) In 2021 - Gleybers avg throw from 2B was 75.1 MPH (65th among all 2B and the lowest of his 2b Career) So if Gleyber wants to or needs to throw the ball hard ... he's got a plus arm Another one fails to understand the stat. It's only measuring the top 5% of throws by velocity - ie it only measures the plays where he needs to throw the ball hard. In 2021, Lance Lynn was a top Cy candidate and Josh Donaldson put up an OPS higher that Gleyber's 2023 mark. Players change and Gleyber's arm has gone soft. He's at the bottom of the barrel amongst 2b now, in the present. |
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Post by themartian on Feb 5, 2024 16:45:41 GMT -5
This is quite interesting. Thanks for bringing to our attention. There’s a significant drop since 2020 of over 11 MPH… Coukd he have hurt his arm playing SS? .. C'mon You have to throw harder from SS and even harder from 3rd base. You usually dont have to throw 90 mph to a guy that is 10-20 feet away from you Yes, usually you don't. But the throws that make up your top 5% of velocity are the throws that come from close plays. That is how baseball savant designed that metric, to avoid the easy/casual plays where players may just flip a softer throw over. |
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Post by qimqam on Feb 5, 2024 17:05:25 GMT -5
In 2020 - Gleybers avg throw from SS was 87.6 MPH (4th among all SS, 2nd compared to all 3B, 1st compared to all 2B, 5th among all INFers and 39th in the MLB) In 2021 - Gleybers avg throw from SS was 86.5 MPH (9th among all SS) In 2021 - Gleybers avg throw from 2B was 75.1 MPH (65th among all 2B and the lowest of his 2b Career) So if Gleyber wants to or needs to throw the ball hard ... he's got a plus arm Another one fails to understand the stat. It's only measuring the top 5% of throws by velocity - ie it only measures the plays where he needs to throw the ball hard. In 2021, Lance Lynn was a top Cy candidate and Josh Donaldson put up an OPS higher that Gleyber's 2023 mark. Players change and Gleyber's arm has gone soft. He's at the bottom of the barrel amongst 2b now, in the present. Another one fails to understand physics. If a SS can throw a ball 86.5 MPH, using the top 5% of his throws by velocity (ie the plays where he needs to throw the ball hard) how the hell can you tell me that the same player is physically incapable of throwing the same ball 86.5 mph under the same circumstances but from a shorter distance ??????? |
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Post by posadafan24 on Feb 5, 2024 17:23:44 GMT -5
Another one fails to understand the stat. It's only measuring the top 5% of throws by velocity - ie it only measures the plays where he needs to throw the ball hard. In 2021, Lance Lynn was a top Cy candidate and Josh Donaldson put up an OPS higher that Gleyber's 2023 mark. Players change and Gleyber's arm has gone soft. He's at the bottom of the barrel amongst 2b now, in the present. Another one fails to understand physics. If a SS can throw a ball 86.5 MPH, using the top 5% of his throws by velocity (ie the plays where he needs to throw the ball hard) how the hell can you tell me that the same player is physically incapable of throwing the same ball 86.5 mph under the same circumstances but from a shorter distance ??????? Oh i dunno maybe its because part of playing 2b is not having to often throw the ball as hard as you do from ss . |
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Post by Max on Feb 5, 2024 17:28:48 GMT -5
They are not only nasty , they seem to have a habit of going off point in hopes of starting drama too And/or evading genuine baseball questions that don't support their opinion. You come for a discussion and you get mud slinging instead.
You get what you give. LOL! @ the both of you "innocent" posters. The proof of how off base the 2 of you are is how when I joined this message board it was peaceful, and civil before the both of you joined. One of you even had the nerve to get sarcastic with one of the nicest posters on this message board. He was very welcoming and nice as were all the other message board members here that welcomed YES posters to this message board.
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Post by qimqam on Feb 5, 2024 17:31:46 GMT -5
Another one fails to understand physics. If a SS can throw a ball 86.5 MPH, using the top 5% of his throws by velocity (ie the plays where he needs to throw the ball hard) how the hell can you tell me that the same player is physically incapable of throwing the same ball 86.5 mph under the same circumstances but from a shorter distance ??????? Oh i dunno maybe its because part of playing 2b is not having to often throw the ball as hard as you do from ss . This is over your head |
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Post by themartian on Feb 5, 2024 17:31:52 GMT -5
Another one fails to understand the stat. It's only measuring the top 5% of throws by velocity - ie it only measures the plays where he needs to throw the ball hard. In 2021, Lance Lynn was a top Cy candidate and Josh Donaldson put up an OPS higher that Gleyber's 2023 mark. Players change and Gleyber's arm has gone soft. He's at the bottom of the barrel amongst 2b now, in the present. Another one fails to understand physics. If a SS can throw a ball 86.5 MPH, using the top 5% of his throws by velocity (ie the plays where he needs to throw the ball hard) how the hell can you tell me that the same player is physically incapable of throwing the same ball 86.5 mph under the same circumstances but from a shorter distance ??????? He aged and lost his arm. Why else is he at the bottom of the heap amongst 2b? Why do most of the others average around 85 MPH? How can Kim average 90 from 2b? How can Gunnar average 91.4? How can Peraza average 89? Why is Gleyber only mustering 75 MPH at the same position / in the same situations? |
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