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Post by inger on Jan 31, 2024 19:05:20 GMT -5
After reading this page I am totally confused and wondering what the heck??? Only one thing can help me here = Please pass me the Popcorn Mushroom Bowl. Yeah. I tired of it and just dropped out… And the thread topic is about who should lead off. I enjoy a good off topic journey as much as anyone, but enough is enough… |
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Post by qimqam on Jan 31, 2024 19:07:08 GMT -5
And so you disagree with the idea. ‘Nuff said and fully understood. That leaves two options. Put up with his poor play afield to keep his bat or get him out of town… Well i have been saying for years that he should be traded . And i still would . But now i highly doubt it happens . OH Back Tracking now ...LOL! I know exactly Who You Are ... And You Know that I know who you are D: |
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Post by posadafan24 on Jan 31, 2024 19:11:48 GMT -5
Well i have been saying for years that he should be traded . And i still would . But now i highly doubt it happens . OH Back Tracking now ...LOL! I know exactly Who You Are ... And You Know that I know who you are D: Back tracking on what ? |
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Post by qimqam on Jan 31, 2024 19:18:30 GMT -5
Because they dont have a 2nd baseman to replace him Yes they do , DJ is a gold glove second baseman Did you see DJ go back on pop ups to the outfield last season ... About as graceful a pelican diving for a fish. He absoluty butchered multiple plays in one game and almost hurt himself. DJ is too big, too old and too injury prone to be a starting 2nd Baseman these day. |
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Post by posadafan24 on Jan 31, 2024 19:27:23 GMT -5
Yes they do , DJ is a gold glove second baseman Did you see DJ go back on pop ups to the outfield last season ... About as graceful a pelican diving for a fish. He absoluty butchered multiple plays in one game and almost hurt himself. DJ is too big, too old and too injury prone to be a starting 2nd Baseman these day. Like it or not he is signed until 2026 or 7 , he is an option for second . Besides torres has made his share of bonehead plays at second too and he is still there |
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Post by azbob643 on Jan 31, 2024 19:35:00 GMT -5
After reading this page I am totally confused and wondering what the heck??? Only one thing can help me here = Please pass me the Popcorn Mushroom Bowl. Yeah. I tired of it and just dropped out… And the thread topic is about who should lead off. I enjoy a good off topic journey as much as anyone, but enough is enough… No need or requirement for anyone not interested to follow the direction the thread has taken... |
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Post by ypaterson on Jan 31, 2024 19:38:12 GMT -5
Why is Peraza at 2nd with Torres at 3rd a better option than Torres at 2nd and Peraza at 3rd ? Who is the rookie ? I still think the $$$ on Torres will go to at least the Semien level unless he has an off year. That doesn't work for anyone. But I don't get the notion of a position change. Simple...Gleyber is the better bat and Peraza is the better glove, which you want up the middle. I spent a couple of hours floating around the internet trying to get a good idea of the value the SABR community assigns to each position. There are some variations, but I think it is fair to say that the value attahced to defense at 2b and 3b is very comparable. As pointed out at Fangraphs: (https://blogs.fangraphs.com/position-adjustments/) Tom Tango has developed the most commonly accepted set of positional adjustments out there right now, based on historical data of how players perform when they move from one position to another. His scale is as follows:
Catcher: +12.5 runs
Shortstop: +7.5 runs
Second Base: +2.5 runs
Third Base: +2.5 runs
Center Field: +2.5 runs
Left Field: -7.5 runs
Right Field: -7.5 runs
First Base: -12.5 runs
Designated Hitter: -17.5 runs
Essentially, the width of the spectrum of major league players being used at their best positions is about 30 runs – if you have a league average defensive catcher and you make him a full time DH, you’ve whacked about three wins off of his value.
These positional adjustments match up with common knowledge pretty well – catchers are scarce, shortstops are the best non-catcher defenders, and the immobile stiffs get hidden at DH/1B/LF/RF, depending on how just how immobile they really are. It’s the middle part of the spectrum – second base, third base, and center field – that cause some disagreement. We’ll get into those three positions specifically this afternoon. |
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Post by azbob643 on Jan 31, 2024 19:41:41 GMT -5
Simple...Gleyber is the better bat and Peraza is the better glove, which you want up the middle. I spent a couple of hours floating around the internet trying to get a good idea of the value the SABR community assigns to each position. There are some variations, but I think it is fair to say that the value attahced to defense at 2b and 3b is very comparable. As pointed out at Fangraphs: (https://blogs.fangraphs.com/position-adjustments/) Tom Tango has developed the most commonly accepted set of positional adjustments out there right now, based on historical data of how players perform when they move from one position to another. His scale is as follows:
Catcher: +12.5 runs
Shortstop: +7.5 runs
Second Base: +2.5 runs
Third Base: +2.5 runs
Center Field: +2.5 runs
Left Field: -7.5 runs
Right Field: -7.5 runs
First Base: -12.5 runs
Designated Hitter: -17.5 runs
Essentially, the width of the spectrum of major league players being used at their best positions is about 30 runs – if you have a league average defensive catcher and you make him a full time DH, you’ve whacked about three wins off of his value.
These positional adjustments match up with common knowledge pretty well – catchers are scarce, shortstops are the best non-catcher defenders, and the immobile stiffs get hidden at DH/1B/LF/RF, depending on how just how immobile they really are. It’s the middle part of the spectrum – second base, third base, and center field – that cause some disagreement. We’ll get into those three positions specifically this afternoon.OK. And therefore...what? |
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Post by qimqam on Jan 31, 2024 19:49:28 GMT -5
I spent a couple of hours floating around the internet trying to get a good idea of the value the SABR community assigns to each position. There are some variations, but I think it is fair to say that the value attahced to defense at 2b and 3b is very comparable. As pointed out at Fangraphs: (https://blogs.fangraphs.com/position-adjustments/) Tom Tango has developed the most commonly accepted set of positional adjustments out there right now, based on historical data of how players perform when they move from one position to another. His scale is as follows:
Catcher: +12.5 runs
Shortstop: +7.5 runs
Second Base: +2.5 runs
Third Base: +2.5 runs
Center Field: +2.5 runs
Left Field: -7.5 runs
Right Field: -7.5 runs
First Base: -12.5 runs
Designated Hitter: -17.5 runs
Essentially, the width of the spectrum of major league players being used at their best positions is about 30 runs – if you have a league average defensive catcher and you make him a full time DH, you’ve whacked about three wins off of his value.
These positional adjustments match up with common knowledge pretty well – catchers are scarce, shortstops are the best non-catcher defenders, and the immobile stiffs get hidden at DH/1B/LF/RF, depending on how just how immobile they really are. It’s the middle part of the spectrum – second base, third base, and center field – that cause some disagreement. We’ll get into those three positions specifically this afternoon.OK. And therefore...what? Riddle me that ! |
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Post by rizzuto on Jan 31, 2024 20:34:12 GMT -5
Molitor was a bit Gleyber-like in that he struggled to play 2B well. He went in to play a half decent 3B before injuries diminished his skill set to the point that he had to DH to stay healthy. I’m glad to see that you recognize the problem though. Torres doesn’t have a good glove, and that harms the team at his current position. It’s strange to me because he sometimes makes tremendous plays and then he’ll make a boneheaded gaff on what appears to be an easy play. I don’t think it’s his glove as much as his focus… Make up your mind It's completely accurate. Gleyber has appeared much more adept at quick, reaction plays than when he has time. Most of his gaffs are on routine grounders and plays with variable decisions. To me, this is a focus problem. It's the same reason, he can steal a base and then get picked off not paying attention. |
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Post by rizzuto on Jan 31, 2024 20:43:13 GMT -5
DJ LeMahieu was a shortstop at LSU and was moved to second base in the majors. While he did win a gold glove at second earlier in his career and was a solid defensive second sacker in his first stint with the Yankees, he has lost a step or two. DJ always had a strong arm and soft hands, and third base is actually his best position currently, better than first, where his footwork and righthandedness are not the most advantageous. Make no mistake, he plays a solid first base, but he's performed better at the hot corner the last two years. His days of patrolling the middle of the diamond are behind him.
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Post by rizzuto on Jan 31, 2024 20:59:28 GMT -5
When Gleyber was traded to the Yankees, I predicted he would eventually become a second baseman. I was definitely in the minority on this opinion. His physique and heavy-legged type of movement were my main concerns. Moving to shortstop for the New York Yankees is not easy for anyone, even if it is their best defensive position. I did not want to see that move. As Martian mentioned, Gleyber's lack of quality defense at shortstop appeared to affect him mentally with the bat. Though we have no way to prove this empirically, I agree with the assessment.
Trading Gleyber in his walk year will not bring much of a return. The time to have traded Gleyber was after 2020, when his clock still had many revolutions prior to free agency. Moreover, Gleyber is the third best offensive threat on this Yankee team. For a team that struggled to score runs last season, why trade him now when the addition of Soto just lengthened the lineup? Removing Gleyber's bat at this point will simply dilute the offensive gains made from acquiring Soto.
At this point, the best defensive shortstop on the Yankees is Peraza, but he has not proven to be able to hit fastballs with consistency (the exact opposite of what young players are supposed to be able to do). To me, Volpe could be a gold glove second baseman, as well as one at shortstop, but he does not have the arm strength for third base. Peraza has a rifle for an arm that can play anywhere on the diamond. I am not sold on Gleyber's arm at third, but all scouting reports (thanks, Inger) indicate that his arm strength is above average. I agree with Bob that if Gleyber was confined to a position that required reaction and arm strength rather than focus and decision making, third might be able to fit Gleyber better as he ages.
By the way, as someone who has played all around the diamond, third base was the easiest for me to play. Shortstop was the most fun, though. First base takes a ton of footwork to play it like Anthony Rizzo, much less like Keith Hernandez and Donny Mattingly - the two best at the position in my opinion. You can hide a player like Luke Voit at first, but he costs you lots of extra bases and base hits and steals...and forget about any continuity plays from a defender playing behind the runner.
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Post by azbob643 on Jan 31, 2024 21:08:00 GMT -5
DJ LeMahieu was a shortstop at LSU and was moved to second base in the majors. While he did win a gold glove at second earlier in his career and was a solid defensive second sacker in his first stint with the Yankees, he has lost a step or two. DJ always had a strong arm and soft hands, and third base is actually his best position currently, better than first, where his footwork and righthandedness are not the most advantageous. Make no mistake, he plays a solid first base, but he's performed better at the hot corner the last two years. His days of patrolling the middle of the diamond are behind him. Yep...he was also an Aflac All-American and Michigan Gatorade High School Player Of the Year at SS. Dustin Pedroia and Ian Kinsler were both SS at ASU. Pedroia won the job, which is why Kinsler transferred to Missouri. Both were converted to 2B at the MLB level...both became GG All-Stars at that position. |
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Post by rizzuto on Jan 31, 2024 21:17:43 GMT -5
DJ LeMahieu was a shortstop at LSU and was moved to second base in the majors. While he did win a gold glove at second earlier in his career and was a solid defensive second sacker in his first stint with the Yankees, he has lost a step or two. DJ always had a strong arm and soft hands, and third base is actually his best position currently, better than first, where his footwork and righthandedness are not the most advantageous. Make no mistake, he plays a solid first base, but he's performed better at the hot corner the last two years. His days of patrolling the middle of the diamond are behind him. Yep...he was also an Aflac All-American and Michigan Gatorade High School Player Of the Year at SS. Dustin Pedroia and Ian Kinsler were both SS at ASU. Pedroia won the job, which is why Kinsler transferred to Missouri. Both were converted to 2B at the MLB level...both became GG All-Stars at that position. Wow, to have had Pedroia and Kinsler up the middle in college! I guess they both made the correct decisions for themselves, having solid MLB careers. I was not unhappy to see Dustin Pedroia fade away from the game...that little @#$# was a pest against the Yankees. |
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Post by themartian on Jan 31, 2024 21:30:47 GMT -5
When Gleyber was traded to the Yankees, I predicted he would eventually become a second baseman. I was definitely in the minority on this opinion. His physique and heavy-legged type of movement were my main concerns. Moving to shortstop for the New York Yankees is not easy for anyone, even if it is their best defensive position. I did not want to see that move. As Martian mentioned, Gleyber's lack of quality defense at shortstop appeared to affect him mentally with the bat. Though we have no way to prove this empirically, I agree with the assessment. Trading Gleyber in his walk year will not bring much of a return. The time to have traded Gleyber was after 2020, when his clock still had many revolutions prior to free agency. Moreover, Gleyber is the third best offensive threat on this Yankee team. For a team that struggled to score runs last season, why trade him now when the addition of Soto just lengthened the lineup? Removing Gleyber's bat at this point will simply dilute the offensive gains made from acquiring Soto. At this point, the best defensive shortstop on the Yankees is Peraza, but he has not proven to be able to hit fastballs with consistency (the exact opposite of what young players are supposed to be able to do). To me, Volpe could be a gold glove second baseman, as well as one at shortstop, but he does not have the arm strength for third base. Peraza has a rifle for an arm that can play anywhere on the diamond. I am not sold on Gleyber's arm at third, but all scouting reports (thanks, Inger) indicate that his arm strength is above average. I agree with Bob that if Gleyber was confined to a position that required reaction and arm strength rather than focus and decision making, third might be able to fit Gleyber better as he ages. By the way, as someone who has played all around the diamond, third base was the easiest for me to play. Shortstop was the most fun, though. First base takes a ton of footwork to play it like Anthony Rizzo, much less like Keith Hernandez and Donny Mattingly - the two best at the position in my opinion. You can hide a player like Luke Voit at first, but he costs you lots of extra bases and base hits and steals...and forget about any continuity plays from a defender playing behind the runner. I wonder when the scouting reports came out on Gleyber's arm strength? The latest ratings they keep on baseball savant would seem to suggest it's very poor at this point in his career. Consider: baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/arm-strengthbaseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/gleyber-torres-650402?stats=statcast-r-fielding-mlbThey are looking only at the top 5% of throws by MPH, so they are measuring throws that are in situations where the fielder is going all-out, ie only close plays. Easy plays with casual lobs/flips are being excluded. Gleyber averages 75.9 MPH on his top throws and rates an 8 out of 100 in arm strength. If you compare him to all the other 3b, he would be the second worst in the league. There are a bunch of 3b who average close to 90 MPH and a few over that. It's a pretty huge difference to go from 75 to 90, just imagine any pitcher trying to make it in the majors throwing 75 MPH fastballs vs throwing 90+. |
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