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Post by 1955nyyfan on Nov 1, 2024 8:06:28 GMT -5
As for the Yankees heart... They finished with he 2nd best record in MLB, they also could have folded after game 1 and didn't. They were in every game. I like Brosius, but in my opinion he was a good player on a very good team. Bucky Dent and Brian Doyle had good world series too. We finished with the 2nd best record but could have done so much better if we were fundamentally sound. Several times they had a chance to pull away in the division but never could. A good but inconsistent team (a nightmarish recurring theme under Boone). Seems every year we have an almost historically good stretch, followed by a dismally bad stretch. The point with Brosius is that he was a good role player type guy but he showed up when the lights were brightest. Cole showed up for this World Series. That's about it. We have consistently underperformed in the post-season under Boone. We got some luck this year with a fairly easy path through the AL playoffs. We haven't had that postseason "it" factor in a very long time. As to not folding after Game 1, I dunno. On the flip side I see it as the Dodgers didn't exactly play phenomenally. The best player on the planet, Ohtani, wasn't much of a factor. And we still lost. If we had played even reasonably well, we'd still be playing. It's probably fair to criticize Boone for his pitching decisions in game 1, heck he even second guessed himself but for most of the other stuff the players have to take responsiblity for. The majority of unforced errors were made by veteran ballplayers who should know better. Still having a hard time getting over not making a play on the Betts ground ball. I've heard Cole's explaination and I'm not sure how to process it, I just know that it is a play that most teams make 99 out of 100 times. An inning or 2 before that play there was a ground ball hit to Rizzo and he didn't get in front of it. He made the play but I remember thinking it was bad fundamentals and he was lucky the ball didn't take a bad hop. Little leaguers I've coached would have been in front of that ball. |
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Post by bomberhojoe on Nov 1, 2024 9:10:56 GMT -5
We finished with the 2nd best record but could have done so much better if we were fundamentally sound. Several times they had a chance to pull away in the division but never could. A good but inconsistent team (a nightmarish recurring theme under Boone). Seems every year we have an almost historically good stretch, followed by a dismally bad stretch. The point with Brosius is that he was a good role player type guy but he showed up when the lights were brightest. Cole showed up for this World Series. That's about it. We have consistently underperformed in the post-season under Boone. We got some luck this year with a fairly easy path through the AL playoffs. We haven't had that postseason "it" factor in a very long time. As to not folding after Game 1, I dunno. On the flip side I see it as the Dodgers didn't exactly play phenomenally. The best player on the planet, Ohtani, wasn't much of a factor. And we still lost. If we had played even reasonably well, we'd still be playing. It's probably fair to criticize Boone for his pitching decisions in game 1, heck he even second guessed himself but for most of the other stuff the players have to take responsiblity for. The majority of unforced errors were made by veteran ballplayers who should know better. Still having a hard time getting over not making a play on the Betts ground ball. I've heard Cole's explaination and I'm not sure how to process it, I just know that it is a play that most teams make 99 out of 100 times. An inning or 2 before that play there was a ground ball hit to Rizzo and he didn't get in front of it. He made the play but I remember thinking it was bad fundamentals and he was lucky the ball didn't take a bad hop. Little leaguers I've coached would have been in front of that ball. I agree mostly with your post 55, but while the players made the "gaffs" poor fundamental baseball falls back on the manager. Boone is not a good manager. But he is the one that Cashman likes, because he is a yes man, that I believe allows Cashman far too much day to day control. |
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Post by hitman23 on Nov 1, 2024 9:16:58 GMT -5
We finished with the 2nd best record but could have done so much better if we were fundamentally sound. Several times they had a chance to pull away in the division but never could. A good but inconsistent team (a nightmarish recurring theme under Boone). Seems every year we have an almost historically good stretch, followed by a dismally bad stretch. The point with Brosius is that he was a good role player type guy but he showed up when the lights were brightest. Cole showed up for this World Series. That's about it. We have consistently underperformed in the post-season under Boone. We got some luck this year with a fairly easy path through the AL playoffs. We haven't had that postseason "it" factor in a very long time. As to not folding after Game 1, I dunno. On the flip side I see it as the Dodgers didn't exactly play phenomenally. The best player on the planet, Ohtani, wasn't much of a factor. And we still lost. If we had played even reasonably well, we'd still be playing. It's probably fair to criticize Boone for his pitching decisions in game 1, heck he even second guessed himself but for most of the other stuff the players have to take responsiblity for. The majority of unforced errors were made by veteran ballplayers who should know better. Still having a hard time getting over not making a play on the Betts ground ball. I've heard Cole's explaination and I'm not sure how to process it, I just know that it is a play that most teams make 99 out of 100 times. An inning or 2 before that play there was a ground ball hit to Rizzo and he didn't get in front of it. He made the play but I remember thinking it was bad fundamentals and he was lucky the ball didn't take a bad hop. Little leaguers I've coached would have been in front of that ball. Agree on the players. Watching the replay of the Betts grounder is perplexing. I get that Rizzo was expecting Cole to cover (could he have outrun Betts to the bag anyway?), but even after he had fielded the ball and sees Cole isn't coming to cover, he's still more than 2x as close to the bag as Betts is and he just half-a**es it to get there. Terrible instincts and awareness. No sense of desperation. Cole is getting a lot of heat here, but it seems more on Rizzo to me.  Even worse, he totally checked on the play while there was still a chance to make a play. Not even looking at Betts or first here. ![]()  |
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Post by hitman23 on Nov 1, 2024 9:20:18 GMT -5
It's probably fair to criticize Boone for his pitching decisions in game 1, heck he even second guessed himself but for most of the other stuff the players have to take responsiblity for. The majority of unforced errors were made by veteran ballplayers who should know better. Still having a hard time getting over not making a play on the Betts ground ball. I've heard Cole's explaination and I'm not sure how to process it, I just know that it is a play that most teams make 99 out of 100 times. An inning or 2 before that play there was a ground ball hit to Rizzo and he didn't get in front of it. He made the play but I remember thinking it was bad fundamentals and he was lucky the ball didn't take a bad hop. Little leaguers I've coached would have been in front of that ball. I agree mostly with your post 55, but while the players made the "gaffs" poor fundamental baseball falls back on the manager. Boone is not a good manager. But he is the one that Cashman likes, because he is a yes man, that I believe allows Cashman far too much day to day control. Not sure I understand about those who defend Boone. We're not working with a small sample size here. He's been manager for 7 years and it's consistently been a story of failing to live up to expectations, post-season disappointments, bad mid-season slumps, etc. |
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Post by 1955nyyfan on Nov 1, 2024 10:07:10 GMT -5
I agree mostly with your post 55, but while the players made the "gaffs" poor fundamental baseball falls back on the manager. Boone is not a good manager. But he is the one that Cashman likes, because he is a yes man, that I believe allows Cashman far too much day to day control. Not sure I understand about those who defend Boone. We're not working with a small sample size here. He's been manager for 7 years and it's consistently been a story of failing to live up to expectations, post-season disappointments, bad mid-season slumps, etc. Suspect that is directed toward me because I've pointed out it is my belief players need to take responsibility for making mistakes, particularly on routine plays that they have been making since high school. Perhaps I'm defending Boone more than most, it seems he is considered a really bad manager by most board members. I'm just trying to balance it out a bit. I don't agree with ever move he makes, some are real head scratchers like using Cortez in game 1. I also don't believe every time a player makes a "gaff" it can be laid at the feet of the manager. These guys need to put their big boy pants on, take responsibility and learn from their mistakes. Most of Volpe's errors seem to come when he feels he has to rush a play (IMO), maybe this will sort it self out as he gets more experience at the ML level. I've also said in the past during his tenure he often has to make a choice between 2 bad options. I'm not sure he has ever had a well rounded team since he's been manager. Each year we complain about how many holes there are on this team, players who underperform or spend too much time on the IL, a reliance on players picked up off the scrap heap to play big roles. We've all taken a crack at constructing lineups when guys aren't hitting and while we often criticize his approach at times there isn't a lot to work with. For much of the year this roster was without true leadoff and cleanup hitters. In the 6 full seasons he's been manager he's averaged 95 wins. I don't think he's HOF material but I also think the criticism of him is over the top. I also understand that I am a minority. Others have used the solid win totals as a defense of Cash. I don't agree with that, I think in some ways the Yankees overachieved despite having flawed rosters year in and year out. Just go back and look at the preseason prediction thread. Max was the only one who had us winning the division. I'm not sure if anyone predicted we would be in the WS, maybe Max because God bless him he is a true optomist. Does Boone get any credit for how far the team went? I really like Bomber, think he is a great poster, but he will tell you that he and I have gone back and forth on the theory that Cash is making day to day decisions. I don't buy it, Cash has said it doesn't happen, Boone has said it doesn't happen and I believe them. Not because I think Cash has a lot of integrity but I do think Boone does. Call me naive but I take them at their word. Does Cash make suggestions like other GMs probably do, absolutely. But until I see evidence that prooves they are both lieing and Cash is making lineups and calling for pitching changes I choose to believe Boone and his coaches are doing it. Long winded answer tha tis not going to change anyone's opinion on Boone, just trying to bring some balance. Thats what an extra cup of coffe in the morning will do. |
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Post by bomberhojoe on Nov 1, 2024 10:54:32 GMT -5
Not sure I understand about those who defend Boone. We're not working with a small sample size here. He's been manager for 7 years and it's consistently been a story of failing to live up to expectations, post-season disappointments, bad mid-season slumps, etc. I really like Bomber, think he is a great poster, but he will tell you that he and I have gone back and forth on the theory that Cash is making day to day decisions. I don't buy it, Cash has said it doesn't happen, Boone has said it doesn't happen and I believe them. Not because I think Cash has a lot of integrity but I do think Boone does. Call me naive but I take them at their word. Does Cash make suggestions like other GMs probably do, absolutely. But until I see evidence that prooves they are both lieing and Cash is making lineups and calling for pitching changes I choose to believe Boone and his coaches are doing it. Long winded answer tha tis not going to change anyone's opinion on Boone, just trying to bring some balance. Thats what an extra cup of coffee in the morning will do. Thank you 55, you are one of my favorite posters here. While we disagree on the Cashman/Boone dynamic, I completely respect your opinion. Regardless of which of us is right, or perhaps it's a combination of both, I think Boone and Cashman need to go. |
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Post by yankeesfaninboston on Nov 1, 2024 11:47:21 GMT -5
It's probably fair to criticize Boone for his pitching decisions in game 1, heck he even second guessed himself but for most of the other stuff the players have to take responsiblity for. The majority of unforced errors were made by veteran ballplayers who should know better. Still having a hard time getting over not making a play on the Betts ground ball. I've heard Cole's explaination and I'm not sure how to process it, I just know that it is a play that most teams make 99 out of 100 times. An inning or 2 before that play there was a ground ball hit to Rizzo and he didn't get in front of it. He made the play but I remember thinking it was bad fundamentals and he was lucky the ball didn't take a bad hop. Little leaguers I've coached would have been in front of that ball. Agree on the players. Watching the replay of the Betts grounder is perplexing. I get that Rizzo was expecting Cole to cover (could he have outrun Betts to the bag anyway?), but even after he had fielded the ball and sees Cole isn't coming to cover, he's still more than 2x as close to the bag as Betts is and he just half-a**es it to get there. Terrible instincts and awareness. No sense of desperation. Cole is getting a lot of heat here, but it seems more on Rizzo to me. Even worse, he totally checked on the play while there was still a chance to make a play. Not even looking at Betts or first here. ![]() I think the still phots are a bit misleading here. Particularly that last one. Betts is booking it like a bat out of hell right out of the box. Rizzo had to back up to field the ball. He's looking down at the ball into his glove. Then when he looks up, he's expecting to throw to Cole but then has to take the split second to process that Cole isn't covering. Then, after all that is when he'd start sprinting to the bag. You can't see momentum in the still shots. It was obvious that Rizzo wasn't going to bear Betts to the bag. And the reason he's not looking at the bag in that last shot is because knowing that it was going to be safe he was checking to see if maybe the guy at 3rd took a wide turn home either for a play at the plate or picking him off on his way back to third - which was probably the only competent, mentally aware aspect of the play for us there lol |
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Post by Max on Nov 1, 2024 13:17:03 GMT -5
As for the Yankees heart... They finished with he 2nd best record in MLB, they also could have folded after game 1 and didn't. They were in every game. I like Brosius, but in my opinion he was a good player on a very good team. Bucky Dent and Brian Doyle had good world series too. We finished with the 2nd best record but could have done so much better if we were fundamentally sound. Several times they had a chance to pull away in the division but never could. A good but inconsistent team (a nightmarish recurring theme under Boone). Seems every year we have an almost historically good stretch, followed by a dismally bad stretch. The point with Brosius is that he was a good role player type guy but he showed up when the lights were brightest. Cole showed up for this World Series. That's about it. We have consistently underperformed in the post-season under Boone. We got some luck this year with a fairly easy path through the AL playoffs. We haven't had that postseason "it" factor in a very long time. As to not folding after Game 1, I dunno. On the flip side I see it as the Dodgers didn't exactly play phenomenally. The best player on the planet, Ohtani, wasn't much of a factor. And we still lost. If we had played even reasonably well, we'd still be playing. I understood what you said about Brosius, as I said other role players had good world series too. I wouldn't trade any player on this team for Scott Brosius. Not sure it's Boone's fault for players having bad series. A manager can't control his players as if he's playing a video game. I'm going to give the Yankees credit for making it to the world series. They played a hot Royals team, and the Guardians are one of the best teams in MLB.
The Dodgers didn't have to play phenomenally, they only had to play better than the Yankees. They took advantage of the Yankees mistakes.
They were the better team going into the world series and the better team after the world series. |
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Post by Max on Nov 1, 2024 13:19:50 GMT -5
It's probably fair to criticize Boone for his pitching decisions in game 1, heck he even second guessed himself but for most of the other stuff the players have to take responsiblity for. The majority of unforced errors were made by veteran ballplayers who should know better. Still having a hard time getting over not making a play on the Betts ground ball. I've heard Cole's explaination and I'm not sure how to process it, I just know that it is a play that most teams make 99 out of 100 times. An inning or 2 before that play there was a ground ball hit to Rizzo and he didn't get in front of it. He made the play but I remember thinking it was bad fundamentals and he was lucky the ball didn't take a bad hop. Little leaguers I've coached would have been in front of that ball. Agree on the players. Watching the replay of the Betts grounder is perplexing. I get that Rizzo was expecting Cole to cover (could he have outrun Betts to the bag anyway?), but even after he had fielded the ball and sees Cole isn't coming to cover, he's still more than 2x as close to the bag as Betts is and he just half-a**es it to get there. Terrible instincts and awareness. No sense of desperation. Cole is getting a lot of heat here, but it seems more on Rizzo to me. Even worse, he totally checked on the play while there was still a chance to make a play. Not even looking at Betts or first here. ![]() Judging by his quote about the play, Cole seems to disagree. |
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Post by inger on Nov 2, 2024 10:42:48 GMT -5
Sometimes you just have to lay the fish out on the table and let it stink. They rot from the head down, and therefore it’s Hal Steinbrenner who needs to go.
He decides who will run the team and is please send with the work of Brian Cashman who is stuck with Steinbrenner’s refusal to see that the either spend like maniacs or lose at this point. They’re in too deep with current contracts to operate like a low budget business.
Note that Cleveland only spent about a million dollars per victory in 2024. The Yankees about 3.1 million per win. But Cleveland didn’t have Judge. Their nearest comp was Ramírez. They had no ace like Cole, their DH had modest numbers, and they paid no Juan Soto to come in for a year. They live in a different environment in the AL Central.
The team either needs to open the wallet further or do what other franchises would do and tear the team down and start over. There is no in between at this point, but in between is what we’ll get…
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Post by donniebaseball23 on Nov 2, 2024 11:01:31 GMT -5
Sometimes you just have to lay the fish out on the table and let it stink. They rot from the head down, and therefore it’s Hal Steinbrenner who needs to go. He decides who will run the team and is please send with the work of Brian Cashman who is stuck with Steinbrenner’s refusal to see that the either spend like maniacs or lose at this point. They’re in too deep with current contracts to operate like a low budget business. Note that Cleveland only spent about a million dollars per victory in 2024. The Yankees about 3.1 million per win. But Cleveland didn’t have Judge. Their nearest comp was Ramírez. They had no ace like Cole, their DH had modest numbers, and they paid no Juan Soto to come in for a year. They live in a different environment in the AL Central. The team either needs to open the wallet further or do what other franchises would do and tear the team down and start over. There is no in between at this point, but in between is what we’ll get… Unfortunately you're 100% correct. Cleveland has one of the best scouting and development programs in baseball. It's why as a small market team, they've been able to remain competitive most years for the last 20 years. The Yankees have treated scouting and development like an annoyance. We're stuck with way too many awful contracts because the current GM hasn't fostered a minor league system that can augment the roster with good and star players nearly enough. Compounding the issue, his baseball sense is not good at all. He doesn't build cohesive rosters, he throws money at guys that are aging and riddled with red flags. They spend enough money that they will probably remain competitive most years, but are lacking that last bit to get over the hump, and lack the depth to weather an injury to one of their stars. |
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Post by yankeesfaninboston on Nov 2, 2024 11:21:19 GMT -5
Sometimes you just have to lay the fish out on the table and let it stink. They rot from the head down, and therefore it’s Hal Steinbrenner who needs to go. He decides who will run the team and is please send with the work of Brian Cashman who is stuck with Steinbrenner’s refusal to see that the either spend like maniacs or lose at this point. They’re in too deep with current contracts to operate like a low budget business. Note that Cleveland only spent about a million dollars per victory in 2024. The Yankees about 3.1 million per win. But Cleveland didn’t have Judge. Their nearest comp was Ramírez. They had no ace like Cole, their DH had modest numbers, and they paid no Juan Soto to come in for a year. They live in a different environment in the AL Central. The team either needs to open the wallet further or do what other franchises would do and tear the team down and start over. There is no in between at this point, but in between is what we’ll get… You hit the nail on the head. There's too much money tied up in guys not brining enough to the table for their salaries for us to then get frugal around them. Ends up just being a roster with too many holes. |
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Post by qimqam on Nov 3, 2024 11:16:59 GMT -5
watch the video and pause at 3-4 seconds ... Cole was running over to cover and realized that Rizzo had an easy play at 1st and no way he was out running Betts Rizzo's first reaction is a slow underhand toss ... only god knows why. Then completly quits on the play and is looking across the field for some ubkown reason Betts is 25-30 feet from the bag when rizzo fields it ... and rizzo is about 8 feet away so Cole stopped running One of the most bizarre plays Ive ever seen ... ironically this is very comparable to the Mookie Wilson play with Rizzo playing the role of Buckner Why don't you listen to what Cole said about the play, rather than trying to interpret a video????? Because I have eyes and brain ... If Cole said the Judge error was more difficult then it looked or there is noone he'd rather see in that situation then Nester ... Should I just take his word for it? Do you trust Cole more than you trust yourself ??? Do you listen to everything Boone says rather than trying to interpret the calls yourself ?? |
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Post by cocopugg on Nov 3, 2024 13:50:25 GMT -5
The team either needs to open the wallet further or do what other franchises would do and tear the team down and start over. There is no in between at this point, but in between is what we’ll get… What I want to know is, how come the Dodgers have a bigger wallet than the Yankees, and they always seem to sign all the right players to continually finish first in their division year after year (or so it seems)? |
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Post by 1955nyyfan on Nov 3, 2024 15:22:33 GMT -5
The team either needs to open the wallet further or do what other franchises would do and tear the team down and start over. There is no in between at this point, but in between is what we’ll get… What I want to know is, how come the Dodgers have a bigger wallet than the Yankees, and they always seem to sign all the right players to continually finish first in their division year after year (or so it seems)? AS far as a bigger wallet goes I think the water is muddied a bit with the Ohtani deal. It's a huge financial commitment in the future and I'm really not sure how to measure it but, outside of that the Yankees and Dodger spending is pretty close. This set of files goes back over 25 years and in that time frame the Yanks have outspent the Dodgers 19 times. It is true that in the most recent years, the Dodgers have outspent our Bombers but it's not like they are blowing them out of the water. Both teams are consistently in the top 3. One might be able to make the case the Dodgers have gotten a better return on their investment but I don't think the problem is the Yankees aren't spending. www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm |
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