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Post by rizzuto on Sept 27, 2018 19:34:27 GMT -5
BTW: The one piece of evidence that Kavanaugh presented that is very interesting is his saved calendars. I was wondering what you guy’s (all of you) take on those is??? He's a hoarder. |
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Post by inger on Sept 27, 2018 19:40:23 GMT -5
BTW: The one piece of evidence that Kavanaugh presented that is very interesting is his saved calendars. I was wondering what you guy’s (all of you) take on those is??? He's a hoarder. Damn thee, Rizzuto! Sometimes I think we’re wired to the same demented data source... |
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Post by michcusejoe5 on Sept 27, 2018 19:46:47 GMT -5
BTW: The one piece of evidence that Kavanaugh presented that is very interesting is his saved calendars. I was wondering what you guy’s (all of you) take on those is??? He's a hoarder. I definitely still have shit like that from when I was a kid/teen somewhere around my parents house. I dont think its strange or unprecedented. Its probably mostly lucky that they were still around (Im sure his mom threw out his Cal Ripken Jr. rookie cards though). It will sound silly to our resident heathens but having gone to a Catholic all boys school just like Georgetown Prep, one of the central tenants is teaching you this kind of discipline and organization. My joke was that from the looks of these calendars, Kavanaugh's claim that he was a virgin in high school definitely holds up. I dont think they were meant to prove anything specifically or affirmatively but that burden isnt on him. It was just a way to show people where he was and what he was up to, especially since she cant name a time or place that this happened. |
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Post by inger on Sept 27, 2018 20:00:20 GMT -5
When I met Ruthie she still had a daily journal that she used to write in every day when she was younger. I suppose it was simply to recall the experiences of youth. It wasn’t quite the same as a diary, is was more bullet-pointed notes about where she or her family went and that sort of thing.
Funny, I said when she was younger, but I actually saw one of the last entries was the day I asked her to go out with me, at which time she was 55 years old. She says she doesn’t log anything now. Maybe I’ve changed her life so much that she can’t keep up anymore.
I know she’s mostly overcome some phobias like looking out the car window when driving over high passes and bridges, etc... I do that enough that she had to adapt... (:
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Post by domeplease on Sept 28, 2018 11:31:23 GMT -5
I did an interesting process yesterday, I chose 5 Liberals; 5 Fanatic Trump Followers (Yes, I have friends like that…for a good reason) and 5 Moderators (who are almost always Undecided).
We ALL agreed to watch the Entire Proceedings and to speak later.
After the hearing, here were their Thoughts/Opinions/Votes (As the Moderator I did not cast an opinion/vote):
1. Two of Liberals leaned towards Ford, but insisted that an In-Depth FBI Probe is needed; before their final decision.
2. Three of the Liberals fully believed Ford.
3. Four of the Fanatics fully believed Kav.
4. One of the Fanatics now believed Ford.
5. Two Moderates believed Ford.
6. Three Moderates were still Undecided; but, wanted a FBI Investigation and to hear from Judge (Kav’s Buddy) and the Other Women making allegations.
FINAL TALLY:
A. Eight Votes for Ford (with some of those, Leaning towards Ford, but pending an FBI Investigation)
B. Four Votes for Kav
C. Three Undecided…go figure.
For those that voted for Ford over Kav; I asked them what made them decide such. (Here are their reasons, not in priority order):
1. Ford came across as Clam, Polite, Factual & Believable
2. Kav came across as Ranting/Raving, very Angry, Demeaning and it felt/appeared that he felt like he was Entitled, etc.
3. Kav had prior, said he was open to an FBI Probe; but avoided that question or wouldn’t fully consent to such during the hearings.
4. When asked about his drinking at least twice, he attacked, by turning the question(s) on the asking Senate(s) about their drinking habits or if they had ever passed-out from drinking, etc.
5. Kav blamed these allegations on people looking to get even because Trump Won & Hillary loss.
6. WE need to hear from Mark Judge and the other women making accusations & have the FBI Probe those years where the so-called events took place; Ford was for it; Kav appeared not to be.
AN INTERESTING FACT: When the FBI investigations nominees etc. they only go back to when the nominee was 18-years old.
SO, the FBI NEVER got to the years when these so-called events occurred.
If I was Kav, here would have been my remarks to the Committee (if I believed I was INNOCENT of these allegations & to FINALLY prove my innocence to my Wife, Daughters, Friends, Fellow Lawmakers, The Public, etc.):
“I am sorry, this is happening; but I am Innocent of all these allegations.
Therefore, I am demanding that the FBI Probe these Events and in addition, I insist on taking a Lie Detector, administer by an FBI Expert.
Once this Probe & Test are completed and you all have the results, I will be more than happy, to answer all your questions and to address and any of your concerns.
With all due respect, that is my entire statement and I will not take any questions today. Thank you for your time & patience.”
That alone would have swayed me & so many others to Lean towards Kav; than, the results from the in-depth FBI probe & Lie Detector, would show us the Truth, Facts, & Reality.
SIDE NOTE: When I see, hear etc. about undecided folks; I always tell this humorous story:
--Pollster asking Voter just before he/she enters voting booth, “Have you decided who you are going to vote for?”
“No, I am still undecided.”
--“Honey, this is a nice restaurant with a great menu; we have been looking at the menu for nearly 30-minutes, have you decided what you are going to order yet?”
“No, I am still undecided.”
--Hone would you like a Blow Job Tonight?
“I don’t know; I am undecided”
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Post by inger on Sept 28, 2018 18:41:52 GMT -5
In fairness to Kavanaugh, two things held sway when he was asked to demand an FBI investigation. One was that his experience working with them had him convinced that they were not going to do this “thorough investigation” that so many Americans think will result, but simply issue this “302 report” that would be inconclusive and turned over to the committee for perusal. That would in effect put us back where we are at this point, really. Back to where the opinions run along partisan and gender lines among the committee members.
The second point was that the chairman stepped in and stated that Kavanaugh had no right to demand anything, and that the committee was in charge of the proceedings. Hm... So that being the case why don’t we wonder why THEY don’t order this FBI inclusion in the process?
In addition to the points I’ve already made here is the fact that the FBI has already started they haven’t enough specific facts to follow up on to investigate anything as the accusations fail to provide specific times, places, and dates. So. It really doesn't seem to matter what anyone wants unless the FBI relents and decides to proceed upon request. I know this has already been posted here, but thatvhasn’t Stopped the requests for nor expectations for the FBI Investigation so i’m Forced to believe that either you’re not reading it or ignoring it. If you are reading it, you might want to respond as to why you think this is incorrect or does not apply.
As for the demeanor of those being questioned, common sense prevails. What is there for the accuser to be upset about when she is the finger pointer? I recall once when my little sister broke something of our mothers and told her I broke it. Since little sister would NEVER, EVER lie to mommy (yeah, right) and I was punished even though I professed my innocence and had seen the damage being done. Well guess what? I was pissed off and crying. Meanwhile, my unpunished and skilled-at-lying little sister happily played with her toys...
Being falsely accused would definitely ruffle someone’s feathers. There was also a gentleness to the questioning of Ford, who was also propped up by remarks about her courage coming forward. No one was propping up Kavanaugh for having the courage to stand his ground. So, I’m calling bullshit on that angle completely. Please tell your categorized friends of all persuasions that they should re-evaluate that point.
So. My mind is still not made up, and I don’t know what short of a confession from either side would do that...it may be that something will come along, but in the absence of proof Americans are supposed to be not guilty. Kavanaugh therefore stands not guilty to date. I don’t reall believe in this “leaning” bullshit. Leaning means you have an opinion that was probably formed as soon as the news broke.
By the way, absent of proof that means I would also find Ford innocent of filing a false accusation at this point...
Somebody convince me...
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Post by inger on Sept 28, 2018 18:58:40 GMT -5
Another post script. Sorry...forgot to add this...
Also Kavanaugh did say that he was up for whatever the committee wishes to do. That would include an FBI Investigation I would assume. So the burden to request that would seem to be on the committee, who’s chairman said that Mr. Kavanaugh could NOT dictate that they halt proceedings and wait for the FBI investigation to order such...
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Post by inger on Sept 28, 2018 19:18:26 GMT -5
Here’s my take on the whole shebang.
Perhaps it is best if Kavanaugh is not placed on the Supreme Court with the stain of these allegations looming.
If he is not allowed to fill the position, and a full investigation does find him innocent of those allegations, that would mean he was the victim of a conspiracy. Most likely if that is the case, someone would have paid Ford to make the allegations. That should entitle Kavanaugh to capture some degree of financial reparations from the accuser and whomever made the payment.
If the investigation turns up information proving his guilt, Justice has been served, though Ford should still be able to file civil charges.
If the investigation winds up inconclusive, then Kavanaugh perhaps becomes an unfortunate martyr as we hope to find a way to prevent such events from occurring again.
In any event, American politics are forever stained ever deeper by each passing day. We have indeed a swamp of nasty vermin that does indeed need to be drained. Donald Trump is absolutely correct about that. Wherther or not he’s any better or worse than the other creatures there matters not. We need a bath in this country before we become that which we have always cursed...Hopefully, it’s not too late...
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Post by rizzuto on Sept 28, 2018 19:40:56 GMT -5
Here’s my take on the whole shebang. Perhaps it is best if Kavanaugh is not placed on the Supreme Court with the stain of these allegations looming. If he is not allowed to fill the position, and a full investigation does find him innocent of those allegations, that would mean he was the victim of a conspiracy. Most likely if that is the case, someone would have paid Ford to make the allegations. That should entitle Kavanaugh to capture some degree of financial reparations from the accuser and whomever made the payment. If the investigation turns up information proving his guilt, Justice has been served, though Ford should still be able to file civil charges. If the investigation winds up inconclusive, then Kavanaugh perhaps becomes an unfortunate martyr as we hope to find a way to prevent such events from occurring again. In any event, American politics are forever stained ever deeper by each passing day. We have indeed a swamp of nasty vermin that does indeed need to be drained. Donald Trump is absolutely correct about that. Wherther or not he’s any better or worse than the other creatures there matters not. We need a bath in this country before we become that which we have always cursed...Hopefully, it’s not too late... Congress needs an enema. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2018 23:28:27 GMT -5
I've been on the road for a couple of days, but have kept up (sorry, mich). Here is my take:
- Dr. Ford was sincere, credible and honest
- Kav was defensive, halting at times, angry and of course looking for conspiracies.
- Saying that, Feinstein wasn't forthcoming
- Graham was unhinged. Is he casting to take over from Sessions?
- The two 85 year old dudes were rasping, gasping and both out of their depth.
- Durbin made Kav speechless when it came to an investigation. The Chairman and eventually Graham had to rescue him.
- Kav's line about lifting weights, playing basketball and football were totally pointless. Nobody gives a shit. You weren't anything special. Trying to down shift from your heavy drinking and boorish behaviour.
- Flake is a man
- We all knew lots of guys in HS and college like Kav, at least I did. Insecure dudes who maybe should have picked better company and tried to be a lot of things to a lot of people. He was a really smart guy who hung around duds and got sucked into situations he wasn't mature enough to avoid. I don't think he has a bad heart, but he certainly made fucked up decisions. The worst ones involving mistreating women. At that time you could get away with it. You can't any longer. He should do us all a favour and withdraw his name. It's only going to get worse for him and his family.
Kav sitting for an interview on Fox Cartoons and getting coached by the Trump WH to come out snarling pretty much seals what kind of SC justice he will be. The real news is that this sad episode will seal it for the opposition in next months House elections and possibly the Senate. Fine ex governor Rick Scott of Florida, is now underwater to Bill Nelson by seven points thanks to Trump’s unpopularity. Scott did a terrific job during last year’s hurricane and assembled a multi ethnic coalition that weathered the housing crises and built a stellar economy throughout the state. He was slightly right of center, however, and was critical of Trump’s handling of that same storm’s devastation of PR. He is being tarred with that same brush. He is a Reagan Republican. Much too liberal for the seedy crowd running things now in the party. My humble absentee vote all of the sudden seems like a mere exercise in futility.
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Post by inger on Sept 28, 2018 23:50:14 GMT -5
I've been on the road for a couple of days, but have kept up (sorry, mich). Here is my take: - Dr. Ford was sincere, credible and honest - Kav was defensive, halting at times, angry and of course looking for conspiracies. - Saying that, Feinstein wasn't forthcoming - Graham was unhinged. Is he casting to take over from Sessions? - The two 85 year old dudes were rasping, gasping and both out of their depth. - Durbin made Kav speechless when it came to an investigation. The Chairman and eventually Graham had to rescue him. - Kav's line about lifting weights, playing basketball and football were totally pointless. Nobody gives a shit. You weren't anything special. Trying to down shift from your heavy drinking and boorish behaviour. - Flake is a man - We all knew lots of guys in HS and college like Kav, at least I did. Insecure dudes who maybe should have picked better company and tried to be a lot of things to a lot of people. He was a really smart guy who hung around duds and got sucked into situations he wasn't mature enough to avoid. I don't think he has a bad heart, but he certainly made fucked up decisions. The worst ones involving mistreating women. At that time you could get away with it. You can't any longer. He should do us all a favour and withdraw his name. It's only going to get worse for him and his family. Glad to see you back, chuck. I was afraid you had left the discussion...We're not in different universes anymore. I saw things a bit differently in the first two lines, which had some to do with the positions the people are in and the way the questioners handled them, but there is truth in what you say... (iron in your words as the old comanche used to say)... Still a lot of missing information...so hard to know what happened... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 5:59:03 GMT -5
Watching the Ryder Cup with a bunch of my British friends back in Singapore after returning from China. Wishing I had mich and inger here with me to counter the shit I’m taking because we’re getting our asses kicked by Europe. Americans overseas are easy targets these days. We suck at golf, men’s tennis, have no formula one drivers ( they consider NASCAR minor league baseball)). and they laugh at Trump.😨
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 6:16:45 GMT -5
BTW.... if not for his actions against women, Kav would definitely be a guy I’d like to hang with. He loves sports, spends money on seats even if he has to go into debt and work extra hours to pay it off (I’ve done that), likes/loves beer, coaches in his spare time ( I do that), and works out, likes Tom Petty and the Stones and digs Nicholson movies ( me too). Why the fuck does he have to be such a wing nut ?
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Post by inger on Sept 29, 2018 9:25:12 GMT -5
How much levity should be allowed when one considers that the accusations were from when he was from (perhaps) 17-18 years old?
And does it make a difference if he was 17 or 18? Immaturity is overcome with age. If the accusations are 100% true then it’s indefensible at any age...But if only the one incident were to turn out to be true, and he was 17 at the time...and never did it again...For how long is he vulnerable for what amounts then to a childhood mistake?
My thinking is that if not for being up for the Supreme Court, maybe it’s forgotten. Buried. But when you’re up for such a privileged office, maybe you better be concerned if you know you played doctor when you were 10.
Mich and I will see if we can break away and go take care of a few rowdies with you Chuck. But we must face the facts. Our politics have been a mess for a long time, and our kids get trophies for playing soccer without keeping score or even having assigned positions. There is reason to sneer if not outright gaffaw...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 11:00:52 GMT -5
Holding a 15 year old girl down on a bed and smothering her with his hand while his buddy cheers/ laughs is fortunately something neither you, mich or I have experience in. Bottom line with the Trumpers is that they would take a sexual predator as a SC justice over a moderate or Kennedy type justice any day and twice on Sunday because they will always vote to overturn Roe, limit the rights of LBGT citizens and allow the free flow of guns and ammo to whoever desires them no matter the consequences. White males, especially old guys like us are the backbone of this movement. Without a 60-40 or better split going forward with this demographic, their party is over. The sooner the better.
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