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Post by michcusejoe5 on Oct 2, 2018 11:29:59 GMT -5
These cases are all falling apart. Swetnick's interview on NBC last night was a total disaster (not that this absurd claim should have ever been taken seriously anyways). Michael Avenatti should fade into irrelevancy now. Ford's inconsistencies and problems with her story were meticulously picked apart by Mitchell, the sex crimes SME. Still not a single person corroborating the Ramirez allegation. This is exactly why the partisans in the media and in the Democratic party are latching onto drinking and inside jokes in a yearbook among teenage boys. The so-called "disqualifying lies" under oath by Kavanaugh have been dismantled over and over again. These people should all be embarrassed and ashamed.
Ive always been consistent in saying if something legitimate came to light, I would be more than happy to pivot my view because that would be the right thing to do. But the fact that nothing has at this point (ANY form of substantiation or corroboration for ANY of the allegations), suggests to me that such a ship has sailed (and is also why the new focus is on bullshit like yearbook jokes).
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Post by inger on Oct 2, 2018 11:56:50 GMT -5
I recall that one of my friends wrote “Keep a cool tool and don’t let your meatloaf” in my yearbook. There was also an inside joke that I had with a pretty black girl that she called me “her lover” and she wrote “To Leon, my lover” in my year book.
My family was quite curious about why those things were written in there, but I only told them to ask the writers. It was all harmless and immature banter amongst friends that was meaningless.
That’s pretty much how I took all of the “yearbook filth” and coded message that were found in Kavanaugh’s yearbook. Harmless banter that a pervert might twist to subvert the messages.
I really was amazed that they faced Kavanaugh down with the reference to having “skis” with his buddies. Oh, my God! You guys drinking beer? Shocking...
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Post by rizzuto on Oct 2, 2018 12:47:31 GMT -5
A question for everyone, and this is not a veiled attempt at trolling: If one were to suspend all suspicion of guilt, and base an overall impression merely from the quality and erudition of responses, does Kavanaugh strike anyone else as lacking a top-flight, legal mind? In my estimation, he's done himself no favors in this regard. Nothing suggests this at all, Rizzuto. He has a robust judicial record from nearly a decade and a half on the bench while also receiving the highest rating from the Bar. Thursday's testimony (which I assume you are referring to) was not that of a judge discussing his judicial philosophy or record while "interviewing for a job" (the ridiculous line being used by Leftist partisans)...it was a man fighting in defense of his life, family, and honor. There is a reason that judge's recuse themselves from some cases...because they arent robots devoid of emotion and personal stakes, nor are they expected to be. But anyone who cannot decouple the man's record as a judge (and directly testimony related to that record) and his reaction in the face of heinous accusations, must have an agenda. "It was a man fighting in defense of his life, family, and honor." This refers to the core of my question. Do you believe he emerged more harmed, helped, or static from the questioning? In my opinion, he did not distinguish himself well in that "frying pan," as Inger put it. |
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Post by michcusejoe5 on Oct 2, 2018 12:57:19 GMT -5
Nothing suggests this at all, Rizzuto. He has a robust judicial record from nearly a decade and a half on the bench while also receiving the highest rating from the Bar. Thursday's testimony (which I assume you are referring to) was not that of a judge discussing his judicial philosophy or record while "interviewing for a job" (the ridiculous line being used by Leftist partisans)...it was a man fighting in defense of his life, family, and honor. There is a reason that judge's recuse themselves from some cases...because they arent robots devoid of emotion and personal stakes, nor are they expected to be. But anyone who cannot decouple the man's record as a judge (and directly testimony related to that record) and his reaction in the face of heinous accusations, must have an agenda. "It was a man fighting in defense of his life, family, and honor." This refers to the core of my question. Do you believe he emerged more harmed, helped, or static from the questioning? In my opinion, he did not distinguish himself well in that "frying pan," as Inger put it. I dont understand what you are asking then. One must be able to decouple Kavanaugh the judge/justice from Kavanaugh the falsely accused defendant. I dont find it relevant to his fitness for the court whatsoever. He has a long history that has shown his record and his temperament as a judge is sound. This was something different and he reacted how any honorable person who was having their family ripped apart by people in pursuit of power would react. I sure know I would react that way. I think people playing partisan games will say it harmed or helped depending on their side. So to answer your question, I guess the answer is "static" for me because I find it appropriate and necessary to decouple the man testifying as a judicial nominee and the man acting as an impassioned defendant of a heinous accusation. These arent the same and its ignorant to treat them the same way. |
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Post by rizzuto on Oct 2, 2018 14:52:04 GMT -5
I believe Kavanaugh, in fact, shall be judged by his demeanor and responses during these proceedings. You may be correct that ideally he should not, but in reality he likely will. In my opinion, he would have been better received with calm and measured responses. Of the three branches, Congress is perennially the least popular. Remaining above that fray would have enhanced his standing. Regarding the questions of the proposed FBI investigation, he would have appeared more judicial had he replied without hesitation, "I support any process that shall lead to the truth." While not accurate technically, he would have been perceived in a more positive light nonetheless. Grace under pressure is a universal virtue, not anger. His reaction simply provided fodder for those opposed to his nomination, in my estimation. Innocent until proven guilty? Anyone who has been falsely accused knows that to be a noble sentiment, but works altogether the opposite in gear space.
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Post by michcusejoe5 on Oct 2, 2018 15:18:11 GMT -5
I believe Kavanaugh, in fact, shall be judged by his demeanor and responses during these proceedings. You may be correct that ideally he should not, but in reality he likely will. In my opinion, he would have been better received with calm and measured responses. Of the three branches, Congress is perennially the least popular. Remaining above that fray would have enhanced his standing. Regarding the questions of the proposed FBI investigation, he would have appeared more judicial had he replied without hesitation, "I support any process that shall lead to the truth." While not accurate technically, he would have been perceived in a more positive light nonetheless. Grace under pressure is a universal virtue, not anger. His reaction simply provided fodder for those opposed to his nomination, in my estimation. Innocent until proven guilty? Anyone who has been falsely accused knows that to be a noble sentiment, but works altogether the opposite in gear space. And if he was calm and measured he would just be called a sociopath who obviously did it. His response, if falsely accused (which is certainly looks like it is the case based on the information currently available), was highly authentic and genuine. In fact, it shows that this is a person of high honor and who is willing to passionately fight for what is right. Not sure that they should be viewed as negative traits in a Justice. When the question about an FBI investigation was posed, Judge Kavanaugh responded by saying "I will do whatever the committee wants." Just because the hammered him with the same question over and over again and tried to get him to commit to a McCarthyite with hunt into himself, doesnt mean that his response was inappropriate. He was the one who said he wanted to come in under oath immediately to clear his name of the charge. Ford and her operative lawyers are the ones who tried to delay and obstruct the hearing. |
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Post by domeplease on Oct 2, 2018 15:26:49 GMT -5
Nothing suggests this at all, Rizzuto. He has a robust judicial record from nearly a decade and a half on the bench while also receiving the highest rating from the Bar. Thursday's testimony (which I assume you are referring to) was not that of a judge discussing his judicial philosophy or record while "interviewing for a job" (the ridiculous line being used by Leftist partisans)...it was a man fighting in defense of his life, family, and honor. There is a reason that judge's recuse themselves from some cases...because they arent robots devoid of emotion and personal stakes, nor are they expected to be. But anyone who cannot decouple the man's record as a judge (and directly testimony related to that record) and his reaction in the face of heinous accusations, must have an agenda. I'd say he's a in position that makes it extremely difficult to make a good impression. Bacon is nice and calm before you put it in the frying pan, too...What he's going through, in particular if he's telling the truth and these allegations are completely false, is much like being tortured into making a confession... I still can't get over the fact that his consumption of alcohol as a teen and college student is being made to be such a big deal...But of course they have to make him appear to have been out of control to suit the agenda. As for trying to get in young girl's pants at that age, well...yeah...I think we've all been there. Furthermore, there seems to be assumptions that these parties harbored gang rapes, and there is a clear difference between a gang bang and a gang rape...Some girls just like to have fun...What I'd like to know is how the casual observer would know what was going on in the mysterious room if they we not interested in participating...We had more than one girl in my high school class who was known to volunteer herself for such situations. That may be shocking to the virtuous, but it does happen. So if you go in that room, or behind the bushes to "participate" are you a rapist? Of course not...I always liked my special time with my ladies to be private, and I preferred monogamy, but to each their own... INGER: Your comments continue to shock me. But to each their own...go figure = "There Is A Clear Difference a Gang Bang and A Gang Rape. Some girls like to have fun..."
Out of ALL the women I have been with, only one ever stated anything about a Gang Bang (because she didn't know what it meant...).
When a Gang Bang happens and there is Booze/Drugs involved; it is mostly Gang Rape, NOT BANG.
I can understand WHY the Majority of Women in America are fed-up with this type of Old White Men Thinking/Beliefs.
By the way, Karma arrives early November 2018...
I AM STILL SHAKING MY HEAD...
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Post by inger on Oct 2, 2018 17:46:39 GMT -5
Dome, I never participated in the gang-bangs that I was aware of in highschool, but the evidence was quite clear in those situations that the girl invited the attention.
I also had two lucky friends that were brothers that had an attractive teen aged girl (the guys were teen-aged too) that would always enter their back yard tent when they camped out and entertain them both. They didn’t have to tell her they were camping out. She would see the tent and sneak over to their yard.
Maybe these girls in these circumstances would be termed whores, or maybe they just happened to be extremely sexually active like we would say of a young guy that spread his seed abundantly. There is a stigma if women are loose, but none if guys “get around”. I didn’t start that stigma, but it’s existed as far back as I’m aware.
I Will tell you of one my former brother-in-laws wives. She actually told us that her history of being “loose” was true and in no uncertain terms. She said “I love c*cks. I love them all, big ones, small ones, circumcised, uncircumsized, fat ones, skinny ones, long ones, short ones, and all colors”. She continued that she had taken them in every way possible and sometimes more than one at a time. If you think this to be graphic, I cleaned it up a bit to present it here.
What are we to think of a women like that CHOOSES to be on the end of a receiving line? That she’s being gang raped? Obviously not.
It was a bit shocking that my (former) brother-in-law chose to marry this woman after leaving his wife for her, but... to each his own.
Now if a lady were being drugged or forced, even coerced in any manner, then that would indeed be a gang rape...and that would be horribly wrong...But it’s not clear if these sexual encounters even occurred in any form at parties that Kavanaugh attended, nor if he was aware of them or participated in them if they did indeed occur.
It’s only clear that the encounters are alleged to have happened.
I don’t understand how you can be shocked at this particular portion of life...
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Post by rizzuto on Oct 2, 2018 18:04:18 GMT -5
I believe Kavanaugh, in fact, shall be judged by his demeanor and responses during these proceedings. You may be correct that ideally he should not, but in reality he likely will. In my opinion, he would have been better received with calm and measured responses. Of the three branches, Congress is perennially the least popular. Remaining above that fray would have enhanced his standing. Regarding the questions of the proposed FBI investigation, he would have appeared more judicial had he replied without hesitation, "I support any process that shall lead to the truth." While not accurate technically, he would have been perceived in a more positive light nonetheless. Grace under pressure is a universal virtue, not anger. His reaction simply provided fodder for those opposed to his nomination, in my estimation. Innocent until proven guilty? Anyone who has been falsely accused knows that to be a noble sentiment, but works altogether the opposite in gear space. And if he was calm and measured he would just be called a sociopath who obviously did it. His response, if falsely accused (which is certainly looks like it is the case based on the information currently available), was highly authentic and genuine. In fact, it shows that this is a person of high honor and who is willing to passionately fight for what is right. Not sure that they should be viewed as negative traits in a Justice. When the question about an FBI investigation was posed, Judge Kavanaugh responded by saying "I will do whatever the committee wants." Just because the hammered him with the same question over and over again and tried to get him to commit to a McCarthyite with hunt into himself, doesnt mean that his response was inappropriate. He was the one who said he wanted to come in under oath immediately to clear his name of the charge. Ford and her operative lawyers are the ones who tried to delay and obstruct the hearing. Are you old enough to remember the Clarence Thomas hearings? He was calm and measured, does that make him a sociopath? You seem to believe that Kavanaugh's responses were pitch perfect. I believe there was at least room for improvement, and as in Hamlet, it is also possible that the judge "doth protest too much." I do not have a dog in this fight; I am quite apolitical, but I do know how it feels to be falsely accused, to go into debt defending myself, to waste two and a half years of my life doing so, and to wake up in cold sweats five, ten, and twenty years later, dreaming that it was still ongoing, still hanging over my head. You find out who your friends are. You also discover who are the hangers-on, the sycophants. And, you encounter police officers who lie without compunction, are lazy in their methods, and who ignore and even suppress evidence if it doesn't fit their cock-sure feeling that you are guilty. It becomes less of a legal procedure and more of a bifurcated, us vs. them mentality, where the ends justify the means. Senator Russell Long said it best, "Elections are nothing more than turning the fat hogs out and the lean hogs in." Such is the nature of power and politics. If you believe either political party actually cares about you, the truth, or doing what is right...then you have probably led a charmed life, and I am happy for you and hope it continues. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2018 18:24:12 GMT -5
The thing is, inger, judges are supposed to be even tempered. I'm quite sure he could have shown that side of himself, but he spent most of his time prepping for the hearings in the Trump WH. No doubt he was told to come out red faced angry because that is where the base is. Angry White Males is a movement just like #MeToo is. This is a group who feel their power slowly being usurped by accusatory women, minorities, liberal slanted media and the devastating recession that wiped away their jobs and earning power. In fact, because of modernity/technology, their jobs are not coming back, no matter what Trump says. It's against that back drop that this latest incident reminds them of their plight. Now men who might have done things 36 years ago are being held to account. That is simply unacceptable to the millions of men who form this loose union. I'm surprised so many thought that they would go down without a fight. At the end of the day, they can't stop the tide, but if the SC can stand as a bastion and a reminder to their ideals for another generation or so, it's a fight well worth continuing. I have a lot of acquaintances who think this way. American expats for instance who have been forced to move overseas because their companies have migrated and others who remain overseas because there are no comparable opportunities for them at home. While I philosophically oppose their POV, I certainly get it.
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Post by inger on Oct 2, 2018 19:10:44 GMT -5
Hey chuck, I think you confused me with mich of Rizzuto because it was they who were having the back and forth about Kavanaugh’s demeanor. I haven’t chipped in with my take on that...
But now that my chain has been rattled, I will. (:
I expected a more stoic persona. I don’t get the sense that he was strategically angry. The red face, the occasional downturn of the corners of his mouth suggesting that he might be near to tears and moreso the twitching of his nose indicated a man who’s emotions were genuinely affected by the circumstances.
To be fair, I believe it to be much easier to maintain an appearance of stoicity when sitting in judgement. The bully pulpit is a much easier environment to control than the electric chair of accusation. No one knows how they would react until or unless you’ve been in either position.
That said, I do think that he may have played better as a calmer man, but I think the emotions were sincere. I think he would have done better if he had said the words, if an FBI investigationis held I would support one, but I don’t feel I have the right to demand one. But he was being backed into a difficult corner when the same question was repeated as nauseum.
I’m thinking about the situations in which I felt I was in the closest position to the one Kavanaugh is in. None of them measure up to being accused of quite as heinous a subversion, and none of the questioners come close to sitting in front of a congressional committee with millions of pissed off housewives watching (mostly pissed off because their “stories” were being interrupted (at least Ruthie was).
I was more appalled by the fact that several questioners bared which side they believed before even asking the questions by virtue of their treatment of the witness they were addressing than anything said by either interviewee.
Did anyone else find it a bit creepy that Lisa Milano was sitting in the audience in direct view of the cameras?
Anyway, if the question is whether or not Kavanaugh coukd have conducted himself in a more positive manner.. then yes. I think he could have helped himself more.
As for the bigger pictures of #metoo and AWM, screw them both and be ashamed of yourselves. The gender, age, color, national origin, religion, nor any damned thing else shouldn’t matter in regard to power, politics, pay, position, or life on any way, and it will never be allowed to equalize as long as people have to feel they have an agenda to fight for. Let the sands settle on their own and they will. Quit feeling sorry for yourselves and accept that we’re all made of the same elements...And I say that without anger or malice...Technology has greatly leveled the playing field. Learn to play by those rules and the best people will come out on top...
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Post by michcusejoe5 on Oct 2, 2018 19:19:12 GMT -5
And if he was calm and measured he would just be called a sociopath who obviously did it. His response, if falsely accused (which is certainly looks like it is the case based on the information currently available), was highly authentic and genuine. In fact, it shows that this is a person of high honor and who is willing to passionately fight for what is right. Not sure that they should be viewed as negative traits in a Justice. When the question about an FBI investigation was posed, Judge Kavanaugh responded by saying "I will do whatever the committee wants." Just because the hammered him with the same question over and over again and tried to get him to commit to a McCarthyite with hunt into himself, doesnt mean that his response was inappropriate. He was the one who said he wanted to come in under oath immediately to clear his name of the charge. Ford and her operative lawyers are the ones who tried to delay and obstruct the hearing. Are you old enough to remember the Clarence Thomas hearings? He was calm and measured, does that make him a sociopath? You seem to believe that Kavanaugh's responses were pitch perfect. I believe there was at least room for improvement, and as in Hamlet, it is also possible that the judge "doth protest too much." I do not have a dog in this fight; I am quite apolitical, but I do know how it feels to be falsely accused, to go into debt defending myself, to waste two and a half years of my life doing so, and to wake up in cold sweats five, ten, and twenty years later, dreaming that it was still ongoing, still hanging over my head. You find out who your friends are. You also discover who are the hangers-on, the sycophants. And, you encounter police officers who lie without compunction, are lazy in their methods, and who ignore and even suppress evidence if it doesn't fit their cock-sure feeling that you are guilty. It becomes less of a legal procedure and more of a bifurcated, us vs. them mentality, where the ends justify the means. Senator Russell Long said it best, "Elections are nothing more than turning the fat hogs out and the lean hogs in." Such is the nature of power and politics. If you believe either political party actually cares about you, the truth, or doing what is right...then you have probably led a charmed life, and I am happy for you and hope it continues. Im just telling you what I think the argument would have been from the opposition. Either way, he would not have been able to win on "temperament." I never said "pitch perfect" but I do think it was authentic. This was not "white male anger", to borrow a phrase. This came off as a person who was severely wronged and whose family was in turmoil. I am not old enough to have seen Clarence Thomas first hand but I am somewhat familiar. Though, I think there is a significant difference between Thomas being accused of harrassment (saying untoward things) and Kavanaugh being accused of being a serial rapist who ran a gang rape ring. Especially in today's day and age with social media and direct access of this filth to a man's children. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2018 20:14:14 GMT -5
mich, that is categorically false. Kav was never at any stage accused of rape or gang rape. Sexual assault, or engaging in predator type behaviour need not be rape. We don't know for sure what if anything he is guilty of except lying about his drinking patterns. I'm talking about mainstream press, not some far left or right site that peddles hate. All reasonable people want is an investigation to see what the truth is. A Republican senator made sure that occured. We await the results of that query. I happened to believe Ms. Ford and thought Kav was angry to the point of being unhinged. Not a desirable trait for a SC judge of any ilk or persuasion.
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Post by michcusejoe5 on Oct 2, 2018 20:20:35 GMT -5
mich, that is categorically false. Kav was never at any stage accused of rape or gang rape. Sexual assault, or engaging in predator type behaviour need not be rape. We don't know for sure what if anything he is guilty of except lying about his drinking patterns. I'm talking about mainstream press, not some far left or right site that peddles hate. All reasonable people want is an investigation to see what the truth is. A Republican senator made sure that occured. We await the results of that query. I happened to believe Ms. Ford and thought Kav was angry to the point of being unhinged. Not a desirable trait for a SC judge of any ilk or persuasion. What? The Avenatti allegation was that Kavanaugh and Mark Judge were drugging girls drinks so they could run "gang rape trains" on them with a bunch of other guys. |
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Post by inger on Oct 2, 2018 20:31:09 GMT -5
It’s indemic of such inquiries that while there is one primary complaint, additional accusations have been added to the pile that were not a part of the original complaint. One of those “add-ons” was that there were gang rapes at parties that Kavanaugh attended and that he became implicated in arranging for the entertainment by at the least having knowledge of the techniques of acquiring involuntary woman who may have been forced or plied with alcohol to behave outside of their normal life patterns.
That would appear to be a touch of sensationalism that hurts the credibility of the witness that dredged that up because it was highly speculative.
Not the first time that someone has ever piled on information that was irrelevant to a case, and in a real court of law I would suspect that testimony would be stricken from the record due to lack of proof and even relevancy...
These proceedings have left a lot more room for levity than I would expect a court room would allow...So if anything I believe this to be potentially even more harmful to an innocent man’s reputation. And to be clear, I am still not proclaiming him to be innocent at this point. I’m just fighting the right of anyone to proclaim him guilty based on this crapfest...There is a world of difference here. Yet I continue to shock and dismay Dome. As he would say, go figure...
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