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Post by noetsi on Jan 23, 2019 12:25:23 GMT -5
Amazing that Ty Cobb and Ruth were not unanimous..
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Post by inger on Jan 23, 2019 12:40:52 GMT -5
Amazing that Ty Cobb and Ruth were not unanimous.. Most likely they both pissed off their share of voters...neither one minced words...In an ideal world the voting would be done by robots, but all humans (except you and Sheldon Cooper, of course) are subject to emotional reaction... (: |
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Post by michcusejoe5 on Jan 23, 2019 12:42:52 GMT -5
Albert Belle for HOF!
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Post by kaybli on Jan 23, 2019 13:10:22 GMT -5
Well placido Polanco got two votes, so there’s still plenty of stupidity floating around in the BBWAA gene pool It never fails. Guys who have gotten HOF votes in the relatively recent past include Brad Radke, Aaron Sele, Armando Benitez, Lenny Dykstra, Danny Tartabull and Jacque Jones. Even Aaron Boone got a Hall of Fame vote. But the story behind it is pretty cool.
Touching story about Boone by Hal McCoy: There is some prejudice emanating from this corner. Aaron Boone holds a special place in my heart – a story that has been told and retold many, many times. For those who haven’t heard it, here it is again: Back in 2003, due to strokes in both my optic nerves, I became legally blind and considered retiring for good. It happened just before spring training and I went to my sports editor, Frank Corsoe, intending to quit. Corsoe instead convinced me to give spring training a try and I agreed. The first day I walked into the Reds clubhouse in Sarasota, I stood at the door and looked around. Everything was dark and fuzzy. Faces were blurred. I didn’t recognize players who I had known for years. Boone noticed me standing at the door with a perplexed look on my face. He approached me and asked, “What’s wrong?” I told him what had happened, that I was legally blind, and that he probably wouldn’t see me again, that I was going home, I was about to quit. He grabbed me by my elbow and led me to his locker stool, pointed to it and said, “Sit down.” I sat. And Boone said, “I don’t ever want to hear you say the word quit again. You love what you do and you are good at it. Everybody in this room will help you when you need it.” Boone turned me around that day. There were tough times and there are still tough times, but Boone gave me the impetus and the confidence to plod on. Because of him I am still doing this 14 years later. He did make me pay for it though, with locker room humor. He would tell people he caught me talking to a Coke machine. He might have been right. That’s the kind of communicator he is, the kind of passionate and compassionate person he is. Writers and players are water and oil. They don’t often mix. And I wrote my share of critical things about Boone. But he took the time to change a writer’s life, to save my career. That’s why, when Aaron Boone became eligible for the Hall of Fame, he received one vote. Boone was a solid player, a very good player, but he didn’t have Hall of Fame numbers. But I was the one writer who voted for him because to me what he did for me was the stuff of a Hall of Famer. www.daytondailynews.com/blog/cincinnati-reds/why-aaron-boone-will-succeed-new-york/SnPhFDcfRelU24cTBYfkxM/ |
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Post by greatfatness on Jan 23, 2019 13:15:11 GMT -5
It never fails. Guys who have gotten HOF votes in the relatively recent past include Brad Radke, Aaron Sele, Armando Benitez, Lenny Dykstra, Danny Tartabull and Jacque Jones. Even Aaron Boone got a Hall of Fame vote. But the story behind it is pretty cool.
Touching story about Boone by Hal McCoy: There is some prejudice emanating from this corner. Aaron Boone holds a special place in my heart – a story that has been told and retold many, many times. For those who haven’t heard it, here it is again: Back in 2003, due to strokes in both my optic nerves, I became legally blind and considered retiring for good. It happened just before spring training and I went to my sports editor, Frank Corsoe, intending to quit. Corsoe instead convinced me to give spring training a try and I agreed. The first day I walked into the Reds clubhouse in Sarasota, I stood at the door and looked around. Everything was dark and fuzzy. Faces were blurred. I didn’t recognize players who I had known for years. Boone noticed me standing at the door with a perplexed look on my face. He approached me and asked, “What’s wrong?” I told him what had happened, that I was legally blind, and that he probably wouldn’t see me again, that I was going home, I was about to quit. He grabbed me by my elbow and led me to his locker stool, pointed to it and said, “Sit down.” I sat. And Boone said, “I don’t ever want to hear you say the word quit again. You love what you do and you are good at it. Everybody in this room will help you when you need it.” Boone turned me around that day. There were tough times and there are still tough times, but Boone gave me the impetus and the confidence to plod on. Because of him I am still doing this 14 years later. He did make me pay for it though, with locker room humor. He would tell people he caught me talking to a Coke machine. He might have been right. That’s the kind of communicator he is, the kind of passionate and compassionate person he is. Writers and players are water and oil. They don’t often mix. And I wrote my share of critical things about Boone. But he took the time to change a writer’s life, to save my career. That’s why, when Aaron Boone became eligible for the Hall of Fame, he received one vote. Boone was a solid player, a very good player, but he didn’t have Hall of Fame numbers. But I was the one writer who voted for him because to me what he did for me was the stuff of a Hall of Famer. www.daytondailynews.com/blog/cincinnati-reds/why-aaron-boone-will-succeed-new-york/SnPhFDcfRelU24cTBYfkxM/That’s a sweet story. And if it were up to me I would revoke that guy’s voting privileges. |
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Post by kaybli on Jan 23, 2019 13:18:04 GMT -5
Even Aaron Boone got a Hall of Fame vote. But the story behind it is pretty cool.
Touching story about Boone by Hal McCoy: There is some prejudice emanating from this corner. Aaron Boone holds a special place in my heart – a story that has been told and retold many, many times. For those who haven’t heard it, here it is again: Back in 2003, due to strokes in both my optic nerves, I became legally blind and considered retiring for good. It happened just before spring training and I went to my sports editor, Frank Corsoe, intending to quit. Corsoe instead convinced me to give spring training a try and I agreed. The first day I walked into the Reds clubhouse in Sarasota, I stood at the door and looked around. Everything was dark and fuzzy. Faces were blurred. I didn’t recognize players who I had known for years. Boone noticed me standing at the door with a perplexed look on my face. He approached me and asked, “What’s wrong?” I told him what had happened, that I was legally blind, and that he probably wouldn’t see me again, that I was going home, I was about to quit. He grabbed me by my elbow and led me to his locker stool, pointed to it and said, “Sit down.” I sat. And Boone said, “I don’t ever want to hear you say the word quit again. You love what you do and you are good at it. Everybody in this room will help you when you need it.” Boone turned me around that day. There were tough times and there are still tough times, but Boone gave me the impetus and the confidence to plod on. Because of him I am still doing this 14 years later. He did make me pay for it though, with locker room humor. He would tell people he caught me talking to a Coke machine. He might have been right. That’s the kind of communicator he is, the kind of passionate and compassionate person he is. Writers and players are water and oil. They don’t often mix. And I wrote my share of critical things about Boone. But he took the time to change a writer’s life, to save my career. That’s why, when Aaron Boone became eligible for the Hall of Fame, he received one vote. Boone was a solid player, a very good player, but he didn’t have Hall of Fame numbers. But I was the one writer who voted for him because to me what he did for me was the stuff of a Hall of Famer. www.daytondailynews.com/blog/cincinnati-reds/why-aaron-boone-will-succeed-new-york/SnPhFDcfRelU24cTBYfkxM/That’s a sweet story. And if it were up to me I would revoke that guy’s voting privileges.  |
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Post by inger on Jan 23, 2019 13:46:00 GMT -5
Even Aaron Boone got a Hall of Fame vote. But the story behind it is pretty cool.
Touching story about Boone by Hal McCoy: There is some prejudice emanating from this corner. Aaron Boone holds a special place in my heart – a story that has been told and retold many, many times. For those who haven’t heard it, here it is again: Back in 2003, due to strokes in both my optic nerves, I became legally blind and considered retiring for good. It happened just before spring training and I went to my sports editor, Frank Corsoe, intending to quit. Corsoe instead convinced me to give spring training a try and I agreed. The first day I walked into the Reds clubhouse in Sarasota, I stood at the door and looked around. Everything was dark and fuzzy. Faces were blurred. I didn’t recognize players who I had known for years. Boone noticed me standing at the door with a perplexed look on my face. He approached me and asked, “What’s wrong?” I told him what had happened, that I was legally blind, and that he probably wouldn’t see me again, that I was going home, I was about to quit. He grabbed me by my elbow and led me to his locker stool, pointed to it and said, “Sit down.” I sat. And Boone said, “I don’t ever want to hear you say the word quit again. You love what you do and you are good at it. Everybody in this room will help you when you need it.” Boone turned me around that day. There were tough times and there are still tough times, but Boone gave me the impetus and the confidence to plod on. Because of him I am still doing this 14 years later. He did make me pay for it though, with locker room humor. He would tell people he caught me talking to a Coke machine. He might have been right. That’s the kind of communicator he is, the kind of passionate and compassionate person he is. Writers and players are water and oil. They don’t often mix. And I wrote my share of critical things about Boone. But he took the time to change a writer’s life, to save my career. That’s why, when Aaron Boone became eligible for the Hall of Fame, he received one vote. Boone was a solid player, a very good player, but he didn’t have Hall of Fame numbers. But I was the one writer who voted for him because to me what he did for me was the stuff of a Hall of Famer. www.daytondailynews.com/blog/cincinnati-reds/why-aaron-boone-will-succeed-new-york/SnPhFDcfRelU24cTBYfkxM/That’s a sweet story. And if it were up to me I would revoke that guy’s voting privileges. “Sort of” what I was thinking. Of course most of those “trash votes” that we see are cast due to friendship and favoritism. No one REALLY thinks the Danny Tartabulls of the world deserve to be elected. It’s a way of thanking them for a past favor, maybe giving them some info that was credited to an “unnamed source” a time or two. I suppose we can hope that those votes were never taken from a more deserving player that just missed, that the writer had voted for everyone he consionably could and rather than leave a blank spot on his ballot he voted for a friend. Yet, it IS ethically wrong in my opinion. It does reveal a part of how and why Aaron Boone got his job. He does that one aspect very well. I hope he improves on the ones he struggled with last year. I hope he gets a “real” evaluation, not the horseshit kind I usually got as an employee. Oh, most of them were very positive, which just made me feel like my manager was so out of touch with reality that I lost respect for them. I ALWAYS knew myself when I screwed up and what I needed to do to be better. Tell the man what he did well. Also tell him how perplexing some of his moves appeared and ask for reasoning behind them. Talk to him about alternative behaviors. I’d like to root for Aaron Boone. So far, he’s made that a bit difficult. By the way, an effective manager is constantly evaluating and communicating the information needed by the employee effectively and constructively so the evaluation has few surprises. That takes effort. That’s why there are so few effective managers...Most are more concerned with protecting their positions and their tee times... |
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Post by pippsheadache on Jan 23, 2019 13:58:10 GMT -5
Amazing that Ty Cobb and Ruth were not unanimous.. Most likely they both pissed off their share of voters...neither one minced words...In an ideal world the voting would be done by robots, but all humans (except you and Sheldon Cooper, of course) are subject to emotional reaction... (: Happy as I am that Mo gets to be the first unanimous choice, it's also patently ridiculous. I always kind of assumed that many of the original class were unanimous but that that wasn't included when they said nobody had ever been on 100 percent of the ballots. I was wrong, of course. In the original 1936 class, Ty Cobb was on roughly 98 percent of the ballots. Babe Ruth was on a bit over 95 percent. That means that five percent of the people voting one year after The Babe had retired and was inarguably the biggest thing that had happened to professional baseball at that point did not include him on their ballot. Mickey Mantle and Joe DiMaggio were on just over 88 percent of the ballots in their first year of eligibility. So 12 percent of the voters did not find them HOF worthy? Just brilliant. Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, Honus Wagner, Rickey Henderson -- four of the most iconic players in baseball history -- were each left off five or six percent of the ballots. It is just about literally impossible to find a human being who ever had anything negative to say about Tony Gwynn as a person, and his batting records are insane -- but still three percent didn't vote for him. Cy Young -- Denton True Effing "Cy" Young -- went in with the early birds in 1937, but only with a 76 percent vote! In fact his vote percentage falls right between Ryne Sandberg and Bruce Sutter. Hard to believe. So this business has been going on since the Hall began. If anything, the publicity that individual voters get now is likely to limit the nonsense of keeping obvious HOFers off of the ballot. |
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Post by noetsi on Jan 23, 2019 19:25:49 GMT -5
They need to shift the vote to computers...
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Post by noetsi on Jan 23, 2019 19:31:44 GMT -5
One thing to remember about the HOF voting in 36 where Ruth et el got in is that you could only vote for 10 people. So 5 percent thought that there were 10 people more deserving than Ruth to be in the Hall. Which still seems doubtful to me, but there were lots of great players. "In the BBWAA election, voters were instructed to cast votes for 10 candidates, the same number of desired selections; in the Veterans' election, voters were also instructed to vote for 10, although the desire for only 5 initial selections led to revisions in the way the votes were counted." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_Baseball_Hall_of_Fame_balloting |
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Post by greatfatness on Jan 23, 2019 21:06:59 GMT -5
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Post by pippsheadache on Jan 23, 2019 21:17:23 GMT -5
One thing to remember about the HOF voting in 36 where Ruth et el got in is that you could only vote for 10 people. So 5 percent thought that there were 10 people more deserving than Ruth to be in the Hall. Which still seems doubtful to me, but there were lots of great players. "In the BBWAA election, voters were instructed to cast votes for 10 candidates, the same number of desired selections; in the Veterans' election, voters were also instructed to vote for 10, although the desire for only 5 initial selections led to revisions in the way the votes were counted." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_Baseball_Hall_of_Fame_ballotingInteresting to note that in that first election, there was no prohibition on voting for active players, although the voters clearly emphasized the stars whose careers had finished. It's a testimony to the impression that active players Mickey Cochrane (10th) and Lou Gehrig (15th) had on the voters that they were that high up on the first listing. Actually Cochrane was sitting out that season for what was then diagnosed as a nervous breakdown, then returned in 1937 only to be severely beaned and forced to retire. Also consistent with eyewitness accounts I have both read about and heard personally about mostly-forgotten late 19th-early 20th century third baseman Jimmy Collins was his very high status coming in 13th in the first vote. Here's where I need my old pal Grandforks to chime in, one of a handful here who was interested in that era of the game. Really, at that time the only serious debate about who was the greatest position player ever was between Cobb, Wagner and Ruth, and they did in fact finish one-two-three in the voting (actually Wagner and Ruth were tied). But if my math is right, that means eleven voters did not include Ruth on their ballot. Even with that large field to choose from, that still seems like a stretch. |
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Post by inger on Jan 23, 2019 21:50:12 GMT -5
Yes, there were 11 of the original 225 voters that left Ruth off their ballots. The only two logical explanations to me would be that he pissed them off at some point, or that even then there were egoists that decided no one deserved election on the first ballot. Neither is acceptable logic to me, but since nothing is acceptable I have to look for the most logical ill logic I can think of.
There is also a third unacceptable illogical reason I can drum up, which would be anti-Yankee sentiment, which certainly had to exist given their dominance at the time in both on field performance and financial might. I put this one in a separate category because I feel it to be a bit sadder if a player was punished because of hatred for his team, and the logic weakens a bit more when Wagner’s case is viewed.
Cobb also, but in his case he may have been hated enough on his own. Rumors still exist that he may have murdered three people. Since there was never any proof, I don’t even like to mention this, but rumor and innuendo go a long way toward damaging a reputation...
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Post by greatfatness on Jan 24, 2019 8:57:29 GMT -5
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Post by greatfatness on Jan 25, 2019 13:56:49 GMT -5
Michael Kay shitting on an all time Yankees great because he didn’t give a good interview sometime ago after a game nobody remembers. Because it’s all about him. nypost.com/2019/01/23/michael-kay-has-some-lingering-beef-mike-mussina/On Wednesday’s episode of The Michael Kay Show on ESPN-New York radio, the host shared the reasons for his distaste for Mussina, who went 123-72 over eight seasons in The Bronx as part of his 18-year MLB career that culminated in being voted into Cooperstown on Tuesday. Of course, it was personal. “He had just pitched a great game at the Stadium,” Kay said, recalling an incident to guest Trey Wingo without giving any time frame. “The team was in Cleveland the next day, I wanted a three-minute interview and he acted like I asked for his first-born son. So at the end of the interview, which was very painful — 10-second pauses between questions and answer — I said, ‘You know what Mike, this is obviously too painful for you. I will never, ever interview you again. You could pitch a perfect game. I wouldn’t interview you.’ And I never spoke to him again.” |
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