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Post by inger on Mar 3, 2023 14:07:26 GMT -5
Billy, at your leisure, I would be interested in knowing if you attended Pottstown High with the Ricketts brothers and Howie Bedell. You give us a perspective on the past that is unique, and I know a lot of us hope you will continue to contribute. Pipps; I am rather ashamed of myself as a youth. I was what would be referred to now as a troubled youth, I guess. The parent/home thing was not good, but most of the problem was me. This to my present chagrin and wish that it had been otherwise. I did attend Pottstown High, but left in my sophomore year to live with an Uncle in Chicago. I did not know them, but they may have well been there at the same time. I had few associations, mostly with others who didn't fit in. I joined the Navy when I was old enough, and found myself there. I had a job that I liked, and the military structure appealed to me, so I stayed for a career. Along the way, I got some of the education I had missed, but I am still rueful for not going on to college and perhaps becoming a Naval Officer. It is a truism that "too late we get smart". My Uncle in Chicago was a Cub fan, so I have some amount of love for the Cubbies. They were about equal in haplessness in baseball wins as the A's. At any rate, that is my story, and I do have some fond memories of Pottstown. regards. Nothing to be ashamed of, Billy. Sometimes when we’re young we do foolish things. Some folks keep doing foolish things their entire lives. I recall one day when I was in my late 40’s or early 50’s my now ex-wife told me that I had “changed” since we had gotten married. I told her that I hoped I had changed, since I was only 19 when got married. Change is the only constant in life. I’m still changing. It’s an adaptation for survival. Concessions to age and disease. A different mental approach to life. The only thing that really matters is right now. The past is done. We can’t change it. The future is not guaranteed, and unpredictable. No regrets…
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Post by domeplease on Mar 3, 2023 14:59:41 GMT -5
For our Traveler Poster:
You can now live on a cruise ship for $30,000 per year
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Post by inger on Mar 3, 2023 15:12:55 GMT -5
Did WWII make Hal Newhouser a Hall of Famer?
1944-1946 80-27 Rest of career 127-123…
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Post by BillyBones on Mar 3, 2023 16:25:20 GMT -5
thanks for the kind words, Pipps and inger. I will always be regretful, but as inger said, I really can't change it now.
You comment on the 1950's Cubs was spot on, I thought. Their big weapon early was Hank Sauer. He was a real fan favorite, and the poor man's answer to Kiner. In the late 40's through 1952, when I saw some games (and listened to WGN, as you say, as well) there was some talent there at Wrigley. A young 1B named Eddie Waitkus was replacing the aging Cavaretta. He got traded to the Phillies. The 3B was Andy Pafko. He got traded to the Dodgers. That says something about the Cub management. They had a decent OF in Peanuts Lowrey, Hal Jeffcoat, and Bill Nicholson even before Pafko moved to the OF and Sauer came along. The SS was Roy Smalley who had a son who later played for the Yankees, I believe. I remember some fuss being made over a young Gene Mauch, but he didn't develop as hoped. The pitching was the weak part. Johnny Schmitz was pretty good, at least in my memory, and a young Russ Meyer. I think Meyer got traded to the Phils as well. He could throw hard. The catchers didn't help much. Rube Walker and Clyde McCullough if I got them right. The bad part was that their home games were all day games, so unless I had skipped school, I only heard the radio feed from the away games. Still, it was something to share with my Uncle, who was a more mellow personality than my Father. Also, I was better behaved, because I had burned the bridge to Pottstown, and had nowhere to go until I could join the Navy. Hope I haven't been out of step in posting some Cub stuff.
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Post by inger on Mar 3, 2023 16:37:34 GMT -5
thanks for the kind words, Pipps and inger. I will always be regretful, but as inger said, I really can't change it now. You comment on the 1950's Cubs was spot on, I thought. Their big weapon early was Hank Sauer. He was a real fan favorite, and the poor man's answer to Kiner. In the late 40's through 1952, when I saw some games (and listened to WGN, as you say, as well) there was some talent there at Wrigley. A young 1B named Eddie Waitkus was replacing the aging Cavaretta. He got traded to the Phillies. The 3B was Andy Pafko. He got traded to the Dodgers. That says something about the Cub management. They had a decent OF in Peanuts Lowrey, Hal Jeffcoat, and Bill Nicholson even before Pafko moved to the OF and Sauer came along. The SS was Roy Smalley who had a son who later played for the Yankees, I believe. I remember some fuss being made over a young Gene Mauch, but he didn't develop as hoped. The pitching was the weak part. Johnny Schmitz was pretty good, at least in my memory, and a young Russ Meyer. I think Meyer got traded to the Phils as well. He could throw hard. The catchers didn't help much. Rube Walker and Clyde McCullough if I got them right. The bad part was that their home games were all day games, so unless I had skipped school, I only heard the radio feed from the away games. Still, it was something to share with my Uncle, who was a more mellow personality than my Father. Also, I was better behaved, because I had burned the bridge to Pottstown, and had nowhere to go until I could join the Navy. Hope I haven't been out of step in posting some Cub stuff. This “BS” thread was created to allow open discussion of any team and “almost”* anything in life. The Cubs stories are a welcome addition, BillyBones, as are you… * politics and religion are taboo. They’ve created some battles here that have gotten bloody with posters quitting g out little forum over them. Luckily, some of those posters cooled off and returned. Some I suppose may never heal…
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Post by pippsheadache on Mar 3, 2023 16:55:34 GMT -5
689 DP in 15,019 innings = .0458… Remember the DP per innings chart from the other day? The leaders had a ratio about twice that many DP per inning played. Who do you think this mystery second baseman might be? It’s none other than Johnny Evers of the famed Tinker-to-Evers-to-Chance combination… I noticed on that chart that every player on it played in the Live Ball Era. Charlie Gehringer started his career in the mid-20s and he is by far the furthest-back player on that list. Cano is the only one whose career began after the 1980s. I understand the issue with more recent players because so many strikeouts means there are simply fewer balls in play, thereby diminishing the opportunities for a twin-killing. As for the lack of Deadball Era players, I am speculating that the vastly inferior gloves and deplorable field conditions made it tougher to pull off a double play. There were for sure acknowledged outstanding defensive second basemen in that era -- Eddie Collins, Laughing Larry Doyle, Bid McPhee and Evers himself -- but double plays became much more common with the live ball. Those beat-up rarely-replaced baseballs from that time also took a tick longer to get to the fielder, giving the runner more of a chance to beat out a grounder or a relay throw. My speculation anyway, but I think it's reasonable. Bill James did a study on the dearth of great defensive second basemen in that era, and to boil it down mercilessly he concluded that until about 1930, second base was considered a primary offense position while third base was considered a primary defense position. He backed his conclusion by noting how many more second basemen than third basemen were winning batting crowns, having 200-hit seasons, scoring runs, hitting home runs and so on. He noted that this began to change about a decade into the Live Ball Era. Points to ponder anyway. Evers himself was generally considered to be an unbearable person, a 125-pound tightly-wound screamer who regularly berated his teammates. He and the affable Joe Tinker went years without speaking to each other away from the diamond. His nickname of "The Crab" came from his disposition, not the way he moved on the field. Frank Chance said that although Evers was a great player, he wished Evers had been an outfielder so he wouldn't have to listen to him. Another surprise to me on that list was that such solid second basemen as Tommy Herr and Davey Lopes, who played for many years with the same outstanding SS partner -- obviously Ozzie Smith for Herr and Bill Russell for Lopes -- weren't on there. Things don't always add up the way we might expect.
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Post by pippsheadache on Mar 3, 2023 17:21:13 GMT -5
thanks for the kind words, Pipps and inger. I will always be regretful, but as inger said, I really can't change it now. You comment on the 1950's Cubs was spot on, I thought. Their big weapon early was Hank Sauer. He was a real fan favorite, and the poor man's answer to Kiner. In the late 40's through 1952, when I saw some games (and listened to WGN, as you say, as well) there was some talent there at Wrigley. A young 1B named Eddie Waitkus was replacing the aging Cavaretta. He got traded to the Phillies. The 3B was Andy Pafko. He got traded to the Dodgers. That says something about the Cub management. They had a decent OF in Peanuts Lowrey, Hal Jeffcoat, and Bill Nicholson even before Pafko moved to the OF and Sauer came along. The SS was Roy Smalley who had a son who later played for the Yankees, I believe. I remember some fuss being made over a young Gene Mauch, but he didn't develop as hoped. The pitching was the weak part. Johnny Schmitz was pretty good, at least in my memory, and a young Russ Meyer. I think Meyer got traded to the Phils as well. He could throw hard. The catchers didn't help much. Rube Walker and Clyde McCullough if I got them right. The bad part was that their home games were all day games, so unless I had skipped school, I only heard the radio feed from the away games. Still, it was something to share with my Uncle, who was a more mellow personality than my Father. Also, I was better behaved, because I had burned the bridge to Pottstown, and had nowhere to go until I could join the Navy. Hope I haven't been out of step in posting some Cub stuff. This is precisely what I love, Billy. Old school. I remember Hank Sauer at the tail-end of his career with the Giants. He was a big, slow, flat-footed guy who was a prototypical 1950s slugger -- like Roy Sievers or Gus Zernial or Wally Post or Steve Bilko. He had six seasons of thirty or more HRs, and I remember him enough to know that he could hit it a mile and that he was about as mobile as a statue. Eddie Waitkus was famous in Philly for being one of the Whiz Kids and more so for being shot by a crazed female stalker who had a fantasy love for him. Andy Pafko I remember for playing with outstanding Braves teams in the late 1950s, sharing time with Wes Covington and Billy Bruton. Yes, Roy Smalley's son Roy Jr. came to the Yanks in the 1980s after some good years with the Twins. He was a better player than his father, who I remember with the Phillies late in his career. Also Gene Mauch was his uncle! We used to often talk with Mauch after Phillies games when he was their manager -- if you hung around for an hour or so after the game, he would emerge and took plenty of time to talk to us kids. Just as patient as could be, nothing like the wired temperamental guy you saw during the game. Hal Jeffcoat I remember as a pitcher for the Reds. Another guy I recall with the Reds who you would have seen with the Cubs was first baseman Dee Fondy. He was always a pretty good hitter. Eddie Miksis, Randy Jackson, Gene Baker, all guys with those Cubs who were still around when I started following the game. Also pitcher Bob Rush I bet you know. Plus relievers who made it to my era like Don Elston, Turk Lown (from the 59 White Sox pennant winners) and Johnny Klippstein, who pitched for everybody. Peanuts Lowrey and Ron Northey were later Phillies' coaches. So you saw Kiner at the end of the line? Good stuff. I think you probably just missed Stan Hack. Were you still in Chicago the year they tried the rotating managers? I think they used something like six guys, moving them from manager to coach and back to manager again, depending on the situation. They were still lousy!! Keep them coming, this never gets old. And where in Chicago did you live? I'm a geography fanatic and actually care about this stuff.
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Post by inger on Mar 3, 2023 20:21:04 GMT -5
689 DP in 15,019 innings = .0458… Remember the DP per innings chart from the other day? The leaders had a ratio about twice that many DP per inning played. Who do you think this mystery second baseman might be? It’s none other than Johnny Evers of the famed Tinker-to-Evers-to-Chance combination… I noticed on that chart that every player on it played in the Live Ball Era. Charlie Gehringer started his career in the mid-20s and he is by far the furthest-back player on that list. Cano is the only one whose career began after the 1980s. I understand the issue with more recent players because so many strikeouts means there are simply fewer balls in play, thereby diminishing the opportunities for a twin-killing. As for the lack of Deadball Era players, I am speculating that the vastly inferior gloves and deplorable field conditions made it tougher to pull off a double play. There were for sure acknowledged outstanding defensive second basemen in that era -- Eddie Collins, Laughing Larry Doyle, Bid McPhee and Evers himself -- but double plays became much more common with the live ball. Those beat-up rarely-replaced baseballs from that time also took a tick longer to get to the fielder, giving the runner more of a chance to beat out a grounder or a relay throw. My speculation anyway, but I think it's reasonable. Bill James did a study on the dearth of great defensive second basemen in that era, and to boil it down mercilessly he concluded that until about 1930, second base was considered a primary offense position while third base was considered a primary defense position. He backed his conclusion by noting how many more second basemen than third basemen were winning batting crowns, having 200-hit seasons, scoring runs, hitting home runs and so on. He noted that this began to change about a decade into the Live Ball Era. Points to ponder anyway. Evers himself was generally considered to be an unbearable person, a 125-pound tightly-wound screamer who regularly berated his teammates. He and the affable Joe Tinker went years without speaking to each other away from the diamond. His nickname of "The Crab" came from his disposition, not the way he moved on the field. Frank Chance said that although Evers was a great player, he wished Evers had been an outfielder so he wouldn't have to listen to him. Another surprise to me on that list was that such solid second basemen as Tommy Herr and Davey Lopes, who played for many years with the same outstanding SS partner -- obviously Ozzie Smith for Herr and Bill Russell for Lopes -- weren't on there. Things don't always add up the way we might expect. I always wondered what kept Russell on that Dodger infield all those years. A so-so bat and what seemed to be ho-hum defense, to me. I never felt Lopes was there for his glove, either. Here was very sure-handed, but I didn’t think he had the best range… Just how I saw them as a hypercritical youth that then watched every inning I could find on TV…
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Post by BillyBones on Mar 3, 2023 21:22:20 GMT -5
Love your interest in people and things, Pipp. I lived with my Uncle and Aunt (and their kids) on Fletcher St, as I remember. Not sure of the address anymore. I would be curious if the house is still there. I think there was a major highway put in that changed neighborhoods. I haven't had any contact with the cousins for a long time. Maybe this will stir me to see if any are still around.
As I'm sure you know, the Cubs had some really strong teams in the 30's. I suspect their management must have gone to sleep to have such a weak team as they were fielding a decade later. Of course we saw that happen to the Yankees in the mid 60's and it didn't take long either.
I didn't see Stan Hack, but have heard about him. He might have been the last good player prior to Ernie Banks. I liked Bob Rush. Warren Hacker was another pitcher who seemed to have some promise. Bob Sheffing was a catcher that played some. Wasn't Sheffing one of the 6 rotating managers when the Cubs tried that later on? It didn't work, but nothing short of a complete roster turnover was going to.
Speaking of Hank Sauer, he was slow afoot for sure. Did you ever see Sid Gordon who played for the Braves at that time? It would be a stretch to say that Hank was gazalle-like in comparison, but there was a bit of validity to that I think. Just a bit. I never did see Lombardi run, but those who did usually had a comment about his slowness.
Charlie Grimm was the manager I remember. He was quite a player I believe.
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Post by pippsheadache on Mar 4, 2023 7:53:11 GMT -5
Love your interest in people and things, Pipp. I lived with my Uncle and Aunt (and their kids) on Fletcher St, as I remember. Not sure of the address anymore. I would be curious if the house is still there. I think there was a major highway put in that changed neighborhoods. I haven't had any contact with the cousins for a long time. Maybe this will stir me to see if any are still around. As I'm sure you know, the Cubs had some really strong teams in the 30's. I suspect their management must have gone to sleep to have such a weak team as they were fielding a decade later. Of course we saw that happen to the Yankees in the mid 60's and it didn't take long either. I didn't see Stan Hack, but have heard about him. He might have been the last good player prior to Ernie Banks. I liked Bob Rush. Warren Hacker was another pitcher who seemed to have some promise. Bob Sheffing was a catcher that played some. Wasn't Sheffing one of the 6 rotating managers when the Cubs tried that later on? It didn't work, but nothing short of a complete roster turnover was going to. Speaking of Hank Sauer, he was slow afoot for sure. Did you ever see Sid Gordon who played for the Braves at that time? It would be a stretch to say that Hank was gazalle-like in comparison, but there was a bit of validity to that I think. Just a bit. I never did see Lombardi run, but those who did usually had a comment about his slowness. Charlie Grimm was the manager I remember. He was quite a player I believe. Billy, I looked up Fletcher Street and I see that it runs mostly through the Lakeview neighborhood, not too far from Wrigley Field. Houses there are pretty pricey these days, so if you have any inheritance there you might want to look into it. Charlie Grimm -- "Jolly Cholly" as he was often called -- had a lot of success both as a player and manager. In fact he is one of only six people to both play and manage in at least 2,000 games (the others are Cap Anson, Fred Clarke, Jimmy Dykes, Joe Torre and Dusty Baker -- Al Lopez just missed with 1,950 games played.) Grimm batted .290 for his career as a first baseman and was often among the fielding leaders at the position. He played on some outstanding Cubs teams in the late 20s-early 30s managed by future Yankee skipper Joe McCarthy -- he was in a lineup that included heavy hitters like Rogers Hornsby, Gabby Hartnett, Hack Wilson, Kiki Cuyler and Riggs Stephenson. He also managed the Cubs to three pennants. I only remember him as an old man who seemed very jovial and didn't take life too seriously (despite the name Grimm.) Playing his banjo, singing with the fans, telling stories that may or may not have been literally true. After he had been retired for awhile, the Cubs brought him back in 1960 -- replacing Bob Scheffing who you mentioned -- but he only lasted for a few weeks when Phil Wrigley decided to have Charlie switch jobs with broadcaster Lou Boudreau. You probably know that Boudreau later became Denny McLain's father-in-law. That could not have been easy. Yeah, those rotating managers -- they called it "The College of Coaches" -- didn't work out. A guy would manage for a couple of weeks, then get sent to manage in the minors or work as an instructor, and then maybe a month later would be back managing. A guy named El Tappe had three separate stints in that year, in which the Cubs went 64-90. Don Zimmer was Captain of that team and he very publicly blasted the whole concept as being idiotic, which didn't sit too well with Mr. Wrigley, who came up with the idea. I remember Warren Hacker at the end of his career pitching for the Phillies. He pitched in the second big league game I ever went to in 1957. I was disappointed because Robin Roberts had been scheduled to pitch. Hank Sauer was in that game, as was Willie Mays in the final days of the New York Giants. Sid Gordon was a little before my time, although I did hear stories about how slow he was. Ernie Lombardi is considered by people who really know their history to be the slowest runner ever to play in the major leagues. He was still a great hitter, but apparently moved like a tortoise. Gus Triandos, Dick Stuart, Cecil Fielder, Jim Thome, David Ortiz, Edgar Martinez, any of the Molina brothers -- you used a sun dial to measure their speed. Elston Howard was no sprint champion either, but not as slow as those guys. How lucky that you could go to Cubs' games at a time when it was easy to walk up a few minutes before game time and get a good seat. It's hardly an original thought, but I do think Wrigley Field is the most beautiful or charming of any of the major league stadiums. At least of the ones I have been to. That ivy in the OF wasn't put in until Bill Veeck had it planted in 1937. Hard to imagine the place without it.
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Post by inger on Mar 4, 2023 10:36:22 GMT -5
Prior to the start of the '77 season, the Toronto Blue Jays had agreed to a trade that would send veteran pitcher Bill Singer to the New York Yankees for the then, little used, left-hander Ron Guidry. All bets were off though after the front office realized that Singer was on the cover of their printed media guide. By the end of the season, Singer had gone 2-8 and retired while Guidry compiled a 16-7 record and an impressive 2.82 ERA...
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Post by chiyankee on Mar 4, 2023 10:51:28 GMT -5
Prior to the start of the '77 season, the Toronto Blue Jays had agreed to a trade that would send veteran pitcher Bill Singer to the New York Yankees for the then, little used, left-hander Ron Guidry. All bets were off though after the front office realized that Singer was on the cover of their printed media guide. By the end of the season, Singer had gone 2-8 and retired while Guidry compiled a 16-7 record and an impressive 2.82 ERA... That sounds like another George special. Get the veteran on the downside of his career for some young guy that I don't think will ever do anything!
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Post by rizzuto on Mar 4, 2023 11:26:14 GMT -5
For our Traveler Poster:
You can now live on a cruise ship for $30,000 per year
Several times, I have thought about doing that for a year or two in retirement. No worries except for jumping ship to ship when you figure out where you want to go next. Sarah loved cruises - for me, not as much. We met an old man on one of our cruises, and that is exactly what he did. He told us that he had no family remaining, and this was a way to travel the world and meet new people every week or two. Medical care is available, as is laundry service, room service, and cleaning service. Wi-Fi is available to connect you to the outside world, banking, etc. He seemed happy with what he was doing. Kind of the modernized version of riding the rails.
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Post by rizzuto on Mar 4, 2023 11:29:27 GMT -5
Prior to the start of the '77 season, the Toronto Blue Jays had agreed to a trade that would send veteran pitcher Bill Singer to the New York Yankees for the then, little used, left-hander Ron Guidry. All bets were off though after the front office realized that Singer was on the cover of their printed media guide. By the end of the season, Singer had gone 2-8 and retired while Guidry compiled a 16-7 record and an impressive 2.82 ERA... Another example of the best trade being the one not made. I still remember following the 1977 season buying the Street and Smith's guide which featured a picture of Ron Guidry having arrived that season, with big things expected the next season. Well, we all remember the magical 1978 season of Gator!
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Post by inger on Mar 4, 2023 16:30:36 GMT -5
Richie Zisk was the first player to homer on Canadian soil…
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