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Post by pippsheadache on Nov 2, 2023 16:24:13 GMT -5
That is genuinely funny and did indeed make me laugh out loud. And good performances from the great Tony Gwynn and Bip Roberts. Bip had better numbers than I would have suspected -- .294/.358/.380 -- and even had an All Star appearance for Lou Piniella's 1992 Reds, playing in the same outfield as Paul O'Neill. Clearly a good sport too. I see he marked his 60th birthday last week. |
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Post by inger on Nov 2, 2023 18:46:12 GMT -5
Pipps, I'm very jealous that you and other kids were able to talk to Gene Mauch about baseball. What a great memory that must be. I thought he was at the pinnacle of baseball managers. My Chicago Uncle thought there was no manager the equal of Leo Durocher, when Leo had a competitive team to manage like the Dodgers or Giants. He said Leo just mailed it in for the paycheck when he managed the hapless Cubs. I guess Leo's finest season was 1951 when the Dodgers got the huge division lead, and Leo's Giants ended up catching them and then winning the pennant. I read that the two clubhouses had only a rather flimsy wall between them, and that after Thomson's homer won the game, the Giants celebration was easily heard through the wall, and there were plenty of taunts, including racial taunts directed at Robinson and Newcombe. The Giants had Monte Ervin and Mays, and that must have been uncomfortable for them. My guess is that Stanky was a ringleader in the taunts. That was a ruder, cruder, era and I'm glad there is more civility today, at least I hope there is. The rookie players were often bullied because were a threat to the livelihood of the veterans. I heard Rizzuto was abused when he came up, and management had to step in, but I don't know any details. Hey Billy -- I love your recollections. But I must correct you on one thing -- Eddie Stanky was one of Jackie Robinson's earliest supporters and actually physically confronted Phillies Manager Ben Chapman early in 1947 for his nasty comments to Jackie. He also blasted his Dodgers' teammate Dixie Walker for Walker's negative attitude toward Robinson. There is a photograph of Opening Day 1947 as the Dodgers were about to take the field; Stanky had his hand on Jackie's shoulder as they were perched on the top step of the dugout as a show of support. Stanky was very much an admirer of Leo Durocher, who Stanky played for with the Giants in the early 50s. They shared an intensity toward the game and were both very combative in their approach.  Unlike your uncle, I must confess I was never a fan of Durocher. One of the early baseball books I ever read was "The Babe and I" by Babe's widow Claire Ruth. Now obviously she wasn't going to be very objective, but one thing that stood out to me was how much she detested Durocher. Later from more detached sources I learned that when Babe was coaching first base for the Dodgers in 1938 and Leo was the shortstop, Durocher constantly undermined The Babe to Dodgers management. Brooklyn manager Burleigh Grimes planned to retire after the season, and Durocher wanted the managerial job and saw Ruth as a threat. He never missed an opportunity to point out any mistakes Babe made -- missing signs, directing runners, showing up late -- I have no doubt Babe probably wasn't the most attentive coach in history, but Durocher's sneaky subversion was not a mark in his favor in my book. He won a lot of games as a manager, so he obviously was doing something right, but in 26 years as a manager he only won one championship, that with the 1954 Giants. He was suspended for a year as Dodgers' manager in 1947 -- it was actually Burt Shotton who served as interim manager in Robinson's first year -- for his association with gamblers and gangsters like Bugsy Siegel. When he came back in 1948, the Dodgers were playing .500 ball halfway through the year with one of the great lineups ever when he was fired and signed with the Giants where he did have success winning two pennants and a World Series. When the Giants fired him after the 1955 season, he couldn't get a managerial job until the desperate Phil Wrigley of the Cubs brought him out of mothballs in 1966. I am sure you remember the Cubs' epic collapse in 1969, when they had a nine-game lead in mid-August and wound up losing the pennant to the Mets by eight games. Durocher, much as Gene Mauch had done with the Phillies in their collapse in 1964, began using his best pitchers Fergie Jenkins, Bill Hands and Ken Holtzman on consistent two-days of rest as the pennant slipped away. They were worn out coming down the stretch and the Mets sailed past them. I know Ron Santo and many other Cubs hated Durocher. Well this has gotten really long-winded -- hope you're still there -- I just never liked Leo Durocher. Although I must admit he was a natural actor. I remember as a kid seeing him show up on "The Beverly Hillbillies" and "Mr. Ed" and "The Munsters" during the years he was serving as a coach for Walter Alston. He was good bantering with Jethro and Wilbur Post and Herman Munster. Credit where it's due. Maybe so… but he never spoke to the horse of course… |
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Post by BillyBones on Nov 2, 2023 20:27:27 GMT -5
I have been very wrong about Stanky then. I thought he was one of the racist players. I knew Pee Wee Reese was quite kind to Jackie, but did not think that of Stanky. Thanks for straightening me out.
You would have had an interesting discussion with my Uncle about Leo as a manager. I'm sure you would have prevailed. Not that he would have admitted it. Hah.
You mention managers overusing pitchers to win a pennant. I was living with my Uncle in Chicago in 1948 when Billy Southworth did that with Sain and Spahn. I followed that in the papers because the Braves had been poor for years, and I wanted someone new to win the NL. The bad thing in those years was that the WS games were held during the day when we were supposed to be in school. There was usually some means to get an occasional score, though. I remember one year a teacher named Mr. McGregor would come to our door and hold up fingers. His right hand was the AL team and his left the NL. It was better than nothing.
I don't ever remember Casey overusing pitchers like that. Even with Ford he seemed to pull him a bit early I sometimes thought, But then Casey generally had a decent reliever to go to.
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Post by pippsheadache on Nov 3, 2023 19:40:10 GMT -5
I have been very wrong about Stanky then. I thought he was one of the racist players. I knew Pee Wee Reese was quite kind to Jackie, but did not think that of Stanky. Thanks for straightening me out. You would have had an interesting discussion with my Uncle about Leo as a manager. I'm sure you would have prevailed. Not that he would have admitted it. Hah. You mention managers overusing pitchers to win a pennant. I was living with my Uncle in Chicago in 1948 when Billy Southworth did that with Sain and Spahn. I followed that in the papers because the Braves had been poor for years, and I wanted someone new to win the NL. The bad thing in those years was that the WS games were held during the day when we were supposed to be in school. There was usually some means to get an occasional score, though. I remember one year a teacher named Mr. McGregor would come to our door and hold up fingers. His right hand was the AL team and his left the NL. It was better than nothing. I don't ever remember Casey overusing pitchers like that. Even with Ford he seemed to pull him a bit early I sometimes thought, But then Casey generally had a decent reliever to go to. BillyBones, I'm sure your Uncle could have taught me a few things about baseball. I learned so much from older baseball fans when I was growing up. You mentioned that 1948 Boston Braves team, best known for the "Spahn, Sain and Pray For Rain" slogan. Actually Spahn had one of his lesser seasons that year -- one of the few in which he did not win 20 games. They had another pretty good pitcher named Vern Bickford. That team was before my time, although a few of the players like Al Dark and Earl Torgeson and of course the great Spahnnie were still active when I began following the game. They also had a very young John Antonelli, later of Giants fame, on that team. Looking at the lineup, they had a lot of guys who could really hit -- in addition to Dark and Torgeson, they had Tommy Holmes, Bob Elliott, Eddie Stanky and a very under-rated player named Jeff Heath. That was a good team, and in Billy Southworth they had a solid manager who won three pennants and two rings with the Cardinals in the early to mid 40s before adding that pennant with the Braves. Of course five years after that pennant, the Braves became the first franchise to switch cities in 50 years when they moved to greener pastures in Milwaukee. Braves Field is now part of Boston University and some of it has been incorporated into Nickerson Field, where the BU football team plays. Casey definitely pulled his starters early by the standards of his day. If a pitcher didn't have it early on, Stengel would yank him in a heartbeat. Stengel's teams led the league in saves nine different times. He also had a very irregular rotation. When Ford became the ace, he would often hold Whitey out of a series against a bad team to match him up against a tougher opponent, even if it meant a week between starts. Somebody like Allie Reynolds or Bob Turley or Don Larsen might work a couple of times on three days rest and then sit for six games. He relied a lot on his hunches and his calculation of matchups. He was the antithesis of a push-button manager, both for pitchers and position players. It helped a lot that his teams were overrun with talent. While Stengel's hunches usually worked out, one big one in 1960 did not and it cost him his job. Instead of opening the World Series against Pittsburgh with Whitey Ford, he used Art Ditmar in Game One at Forbes Field because he wanted to save Ford to start Game Three at Yankee Stadium. Ditmar lasted 1/3 of an inning, and in his second start he lasted 1 1/3 innings -- six earned runs in 1 2/3 innings. Meanwhile Ford threw two complete game shutouts in Game Three and Game Six, but he wasn't available for Game Seven. Turley had a miserable start and we know how that one turned out. Dan Topping was looking to drop Casey anyway -- he liked first base coach Ralph Houk and was afraid Houk would get another managerial job somewhere else, and Stengel was 70 years old. Losing the series that way made it much easier to fire Casey. I loved your Mr. McGregor story. Yeah, the Series always started on a Wednesday, and games normally began a little past one Eastern Time. Like you, we always found a way to keep up. The old routine of having the transistor radio on your lap with the earplug did work some of the time, depending on the teacher. We got out of school at 2:30, so once we hit the schoolbus we were at liberty until we got home in front of the TV, which normally was somewhere around the seventh inning for an East Coast game -- earlier for a Central Time game. We did have one very cool teacher in sixth grade who sent a few of us who he knew were baseball fiends off to the auditorium where there was a TV. We just had to report back to him after every half-inning. Of course weekends (always games three and four) we were home free and Columbus Day was a holiday and that was often Game Five. It was a godsend when the Yanks played the Giants in 62 and the Dodgers in 63 because those games from the West Coast started at four. Although I understand that before 1957, there was often no day off between games because the teams could take the train to the next city. |
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Post by rizzuto on Nov 3, 2023 21:17:46 GMT -5
I have been very wrong about Stanky then. I thought he was one of the racist players. I knew Pee Wee Reese was quite kind to Jackie, but did not think that of Stanky. Thanks for straightening me out. You would have had an interesting discussion with my Uncle about Leo as a manager. I'm sure you would have prevailed. Not that he would have admitted it. Hah. You mention managers overusing pitchers to win a pennant. I was living with my Uncle in Chicago in 1948 when Billy Southworth did that with Sain and Spahn. I followed that in the papers because the Braves had been poor for years, and I wanted someone new to win the NL. The bad thing in those years was that the WS games were held during the day when we were supposed to be in school. There was usually some means to get an occasional score, though. I remember one year a teacher named Mr. McGregor would come to our door and hold up fingers. His right hand was the AL team and his left the NL. It was better than nothing. I don't ever remember Casey overusing pitchers like that. Even with Ford he seemed to pull him a bit early I sometimes thought, But then Casey generally had a decent reliever to go to. BillyBones, I'm sure your Uncle could have taught me a few things about baseball. I learned so much from older baseball fans when I was growing up. You mentioned that 1948 Boston Braves team, best known for the "Spahn, Sain and Pray For Rain" slogan. Actually Spahn had one of his lesser seasons that year -- one of the few in which he did not win 20 games. They had another pretty good pitcher named Vern Bickford. That team was before my time, although a few of the players like Al Dark and Earl Torgeson and of course the great Spahnnie were still active when I began following the game. They also had a very young John Antonelli, later of Giants fame, on that team. Looking at the lineup, they had a lot of guys who could really hit -- in addition to Dark and Torgeson, they had Tommy Holmes, Bob Elliott, Eddie Stanky and a very under-rated player named Jeff Heath. That was a good team, and in Billy Southworth they had a solid manager who won three pennants and two rings with the Cardinals in the early to mid 40s before adding that pennant with the Braves. Of course five years after that pennant, the Braves became the first franchise to switch cities in 50 years when they moved to greener pastures in Milwaukee. Braves Field is now part of Boston University and some of it has been incorporated into Nickerson Field, where the BU football team plays. Casey definitely pulled his starters early by the standards of his day. If a pitcher didn't have it early on, Stengel would yank him in a heartbeat. Stengel's teams led the league in saves nine different times. He also had a very irregular rotation. When Ford became the ace, he would often hold Whitey out of a series against a bad team to match him up against a tougher opponent, even if it meant a week between starts. Somebody like Allie Reynolds or Bob Turley or Don Larsen might work a couple of times on three days rest and then sit for six games. He relied a lot on his hunches and his calculation of matchups. He was the antithesis of a push-button manager, both for pitchers and position players. It helped a lot that his teams were overrun with talent. While Stengel's hunches usually worked out, one big one in 1960 did not and it cost him his job. Instead of opening the World Series against Pittsburgh with Whitey Ford, he used Art Ditmar in Game One at Forbes Field because he wanted to save Ford to start Game Three at Yankee Stadium. Ditmar lasted 1/3 of an inning, and in his second start he lasted 1 1/3 innings -- six earned runs in 1 2/3 innings. Meanwhile Ford threw two complete game shutouts in Game Three and Game Six, but he wasn't available for Game Seven. Turley had a miserable start and we know how that one turned out. Dan Topping was looking to drop Casey anyway -- he liked first base coach Ralph Houk and was afraid Houk would get another managerial job somewhere else, and Stengel was 70 years old. Losing the series that way made it much easier to fire Casey. I loved your Mr. McGregor story. Yeah, the Series always started on a Wednesday, and games normally began a little past one Eastern Time. Like you, we always found a way to keep up. The old routine of having the transistor radio on your lap with the earplug did work some of the time, depending on the teacher. We got out of school at 2:30, so once we hit the schoolbus we were at liberty until we got home in front of the TV, which normally was somewhere around the seventh inning for an East Coast game -- earlier for a Central Time game. We did have one very cool teacher in sixth grade who sent a few of us who he knew were baseball fiends off to the auditorium where there was a TV. We just had to report back to him after every half-inning. Of course weekends (always games three and four) we were home free and Columbus Day was a holiday and that was often Game Five. It was a godsend when the Yanks played the Giants in 62 and the Dodgers in 63 because those games from the West Coast started at four. Although I understand that before 1957, there was often no day off between games because the teams could take the train to the next city. My friend Joe lamented that 1960 series and Casey's wasting a Game 7 without The Chairman of the Board. We will indeed always remember those Mr. McGregor's in our life and those small acts of kindness. There was a little black and white television in the teachers' lounge - always filled with cigarette smoke - and several teachers would leave class for a minute or two to check the score. Hateful Mr. Gaspard (what a prick he was) would intentionally give us the wrong score, and we wouldn't be able to know the actual score until we arrived home at 3:30 PM from the bus. |
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Post by pippsheadache on Nov 4, 2023 5:46:42 GMT -5
Oh man, the teachers lounge. I associate it almost completely with smoke. And our fictional flights of fancy about what else might be going on in there between the teachers. I'm sure it was much less titillating than our imaginations.
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Post by desousa on Nov 4, 2023 7:24:51 GMT -5
I have been very wrong about Stanky then. I thought he was one of the racist players. I knew Pee Wee Reese was quite kind to Jackie, but did not think that of Stanky. Thanks for straightening me out. You would have had an interesting discussion with my Uncle about Leo as a manager. I'm sure you would have prevailed. Not that he would have admitted it. Hah. You mention managers overusing pitchers to win a pennant. I was living with my Uncle in Chicago in 1948 when Billy Southworth did that with Sain and Spahn. I followed that in the papers because the Braves had been poor for years, and I wanted someone new to win the NL. The bad thing in those years was that the WS games were held during the day when we were supposed to be in school. There was usually some means to get an occasional score, though. I remember one year a teacher named Mr. McGregor would come to our door and hold up fingers. His right hand was the AL team and his left the NL. It was better than nothing. I don't ever remember Casey overusing pitchers like that. Even with Ford he seemed to pull him a bit early I sometimes thought, But then Casey generally had a decent reliever to go to. BillyBones, I'm sure your Uncle could have taught me a few things about baseball. I learned so much from older baseball fans when I was growing up. You mentioned that 1948 Boston Braves team, best known for the "Spahn, Sain and Pray For Rain" slogan. Actually Spahn had one of his lesser seasons that year -- one of the few in which he did not win 20 games. They had another pretty good pitcher named Vern Bickford. That team was before my time, although a few of the players like Al Dark and Earl Torgeson and of course the great Spahnnie were still active when I began following the game. They also had a very young John Antonelli, later of Giants fame, on that team. Looking at the lineup, they had a lot of guys who could really hit -- in addition to Dark and Torgeson, they had Tommy Holmes, Bob Elliott, Eddie Stanky and a very under-rated player named Jeff Heath. That was a good team, and in Billy Southworth they had a solid manager who won three pennants and two rings with the Cardinals in the early to mid 40s before adding that pennant with the Braves. Of course five years after that pennant, the Braves became the first franchise to switch cities in 50 years when they moved to greener pastures in Milwaukee. Braves Field is now part of Boston University and some of it has been incorporated into Nickerson Field, where the BU football team plays. Casey definitely pulled his starters early by the standards of his day. If a pitcher didn't have it early on, Stengel would yank him in a heartbeat. Stengel's teams led the league in saves nine different times. He also had a very irregular rotation. When Ford became the ace, he would often hold Whitey out of a series against a bad team to match him up against a tougher opponent, even if it meant a week between starts. Somebody like Allie Reynolds or Bob Turley or Don Larsen might work a couple of times on three days rest and then sit for six games. He relied a lot on his hunches and his calculation of matchups. He was the antithesis of a push-button manager, both for pitchers and position players. It helped a lot that his teams were overrun with talent. While Stengel's hunches usually worked out, one big one in 1960 did not and it cost him his job. Instead of opening the World Series against Pittsburgh with Whitey Ford, he used Art Ditmar in Game One at Forbes Field because he wanted to save Ford to start Game Three at Yankee Stadium. Ditmar lasted 1/3 of an inning, and in his second start he lasted 1 1/3 innings -- six earned runs in 1 2/3 innings. Meanwhile Ford threw two complete game shutouts in Game Three and Game Six, but he wasn't available for Game Seven. Turley had a miserable start and we know how that one turned out. Dan Topping was looking to drop Casey anyway -- he liked first base coach Ralph Houk and was afraid Houk would get another managerial job somewhere else, and Stengel was 70 years old. Losing the series that way made it much easier to fire Casey. I loved your Mr. McGregor story. Yeah, the Series always started on a Wednesday, and games normally began a little past one Eastern Time. Like you, we always found a way to keep up. The old routine of having the transistor radio on your lap with the earplug did work some of the time, depending on the teacher. We got out of school at 2:30, so once we hit the schoolbus we were at liberty until we got home in front of the TV, which normally was somewhere around the seventh inning for an East Coast game -- earlier for a Central Time game. We did have one very cool teacher in sixth grade who sent a few of us who he knew were baseball fiends off to the auditorium where there was a TV. We just had to report back to him after every half-inning. Of course weekends (always games three and four) we were home free and Columbus Day was a holiday and that was often Game Five. It was a godsend when the Yanks played the Giants in 62 and the Dodgers in 63 because those games from the West Coast started at four. Although I understand that before 1957, there was often no day off between games because the teams could take the train to the next city. Sorry I missed this theses recollections of all of the historians on this site. I wish I had the memories of you all. During the 61' WS, the janitor at my school invited me into his little office during afternoon recess so I could listen to the games on his transistor radio. Now that I think about it, that wouldn't happen today. I got to watch the 62',63' and 64' WS because I got sick with bronchitis each year and my mother kept me home from school. She told everyone I had Yankeeitis. |
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Post by desousa on Nov 4, 2023 7:27:23 GMT -5
Oh man, the teachers lounge. I associate it almost completely with smoke. And our fictional flights of fancy about what else might be going on in there between the teachers. I'm sure it was much less titillating than our imaginations. When I was a senior in high school, my English teacher would bum cigarettes from me in the middle of class so he could head to the teachers lounge. I can still smell that place. |
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Post by pippsheadache on Nov 4, 2023 11:17:20 GMT -5
BillyBones, I'm sure your Uncle could have taught me a few things about baseball. I learned so much from older baseball fans when I was growing up. You mentioned that 1948 Boston Braves team, best known for the "Spahn, Sain and Pray For Rain" slogan. Actually Spahn had one of his lesser seasons that year -- one of the few in which he did not win 20 games. They had another pretty good pitcher named Vern Bickford. That team was before my time, although a few of the players like Al Dark and Earl Torgeson and of course the great Spahnnie were still active when I began following the game. They also had a very young John Antonelli, later of Giants fame, on that team. Looking at the lineup, they had a lot of guys who could really hit -- in addition to Dark and Torgeson, they had Tommy Holmes, Bob Elliott, Eddie Stanky and a very under-rated player named Jeff Heath. That was a good team, and in Billy Southworth they had a solid manager who won three pennants and two rings with the Cardinals in the early to mid 40s before adding that pennant with the Braves. Of course five years after that pennant, the Braves became the first franchise to switch cities in 50 years when they moved to greener pastures in Milwaukee. Braves Field is now part of Boston University and some of it has been incorporated into Nickerson Field, where the BU football team plays. Casey definitely pulled his starters early by the standards of his day. If a pitcher didn't have it early on, Stengel would yank him in a heartbeat. Stengel's teams led the league in saves nine different times. He also had a very irregular rotation. When Ford became the ace, he would often hold Whitey out of a series against a bad team to match him up against a tougher opponent, even if it meant a week between starts. Somebody like Allie Reynolds or Bob Turley or Don Larsen might work a couple of times on three days rest and then sit for six games. He relied a lot on his hunches and his calculation of matchups. He was the antithesis of a push-button manager, both for pitchers and position players. It helped a lot that his teams were overrun with talent. While Stengel's hunches usually worked out, one big one in 1960 did not and it cost him his job. Instead of opening the World Series against Pittsburgh with Whitey Ford, he used Art Ditmar in Game One at Forbes Field because he wanted to save Ford to start Game Three at Yankee Stadium. Ditmar lasted 1/3 of an inning, and in his second start he lasted 1 1/3 innings -- six earned runs in 1 2/3 innings. Meanwhile Ford threw two complete game shutouts in Game Three and Game Six, but he wasn't available for Game Seven. Turley had a miserable start and we know how that one turned out. Dan Topping was looking to drop Casey anyway -- he liked first base coach Ralph Houk and was afraid Houk would get another managerial job somewhere else, and Stengel was 70 years old. Losing the series that way made it much easier to fire Casey. I loved your Mr. McGregor story. Yeah, the Series always started on a Wednesday, and games normally began a little past one Eastern Time. Like you, we always found a way to keep up. The old routine of having the transistor radio on your lap with the earplug did work some of the time, depending on the teacher. We got out of school at 2:30, so once we hit the schoolbus we were at liberty until we got home in front of the TV, which normally was somewhere around the seventh inning for an East Coast game -- earlier for a Central Time game. We did have one very cool teacher in sixth grade who sent a few of us who he knew were baseball fiends off to the auditorium where there was a TV. We just had to report back to him after every half-inning. Of course weekends (always games three and four) we were home free and Columbus Day was a holiday and that was often Game Five. It was a godsend when the Yanks played the Giants in 62 and the Dodgers in 63 because those games from the West Coast started at four. Although I understand that before 1957, there was often no day off between games because the teams could take the train to the next city. Sorry I missed this theses recollections of all of the historians on this site. I wish I had the memories of you all. During the 61' WS, the janitor at my school invited me into his little office during afternoon recess so I could listen to the games on his transistor radio. Now that I think about it, that wouldn't happen today. I got to watch the 62',63' and 64' WS because I got sick with bronchitis each year and my mother kept me home from school. She told everyone I had Yankeeitis. Matt, we only remember their names. You actually know what they drank. |
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Post by inger on Nov 4, 2023 12:50:04 GMT -5
Sorry I missed this theses recollections of all of the historians on this site. I wish I had the memories of you all. During the 61' WS, the janitor at my school invited me into his little office during afternoon recess so I could listen to the games on his transistor radio. Now that I think about it, that wouldn't happen today. I got to watch the 62',63' and 64' WS because I got sick with bronchitis each year and my mother kept me home from school. She told everyone I had Yankeeitis. Matt, we only remember their names. You actually know what they drank. 😂😂😂 |
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Post by desousa on Nov 4, 2023 13:37:32 GMT -5
Sorry I missed this theses recollections of all of the historians on this site. I wish I had the memories of you all. During the 61' WS, the janitor at my school invited me into his little office during afternoon recess so I could listen to the games on his transistor radio. Now that I think about it, that wouldn't happen today. I got to watch the 62',63' and 64' WS because I got sick with bronchitis each year and my mother kept me home from school. She told everyone I had Yankeeitis. Matt, we only remember their names. You actually know what they drank.  |
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Post by BillyBones on Nov 4, 2023 17:02:37 GMT -5
Pipps: Your comment about the 48 Braves having some hitters caused me to lookup the AllStar team that year. Elliot, Holmes, Sain, Stanky, and the little-known (at least by me) Phil Masi made the team. Stanky was apparently injured and replaced by Bill Rigney. My old, faulty memory had placed Sid Gordon with the Braves that season, but he was really with the Giants then. What I remember from seeing Sid a few times, was that he had occasional power, and was markedly slow afoot. Also that he was a rooting favorite with the Jewish folks. I noticed Richie Ashburn was on that team, which surprised me a bit that he was there that early. Richie went on to have a fine career as you know. If I did not read it wrong the starting pitcher for the NL was Ralph Branca. Of course Ralph was the reliever who came in to relieve Newcombe and gave up the Thompson homer in 51. By the way, Tommy Holmes was one fine hitter from what I saw.
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Post by pippsheadache on Nov 5, 2023 14:06:35 GMT -5
Pipps: Your comment about the 48 Braves having some hitters caused me to lookup the AllStar team that year. Elliot, Holmes, Sain, Stanky, and the little-known (at least by me) Phil Masi made the team. Stanky was apparently injured and replaced by Bill Rigney. My old, faulty memory had placed Sid Gordon with the Braves that season, but he was really with the Giants then. What I remember from seeing Sid a few times, was that he had occasional power, and was markedly slow afoot. Also that he was a rooting favorite with the Jewish folks. I noticed Richie Ashburn was on that team, which surprised me a bit that he was there that early. Richie went on to have a fine career as you know. If I did not read it wrong the starting pitcher for the NL was Ralph Branca. Of course Ralph was the reliever who came in to relieve Newcombe and gave up the Thompson homer in 51. By the way, Tommy Holmes was one fine hitter from what I saw. I love hearing these names BillyBones. Most of them were just before my time, but they are the guys I would hear my father and uncles and their friends bring up when I was a child. Yes, Sid Gordon came to the Braves from the Giants the year after the Braves won their pennant. Leo Durocher, who had just come to the Giants, liked fast players, which Gordon as you noted most definitely was not, and he traded Sid for Alvin Dark and Eddie Stanky. Monte Irvin had come along to play left and made Gordon expendable. Durocher and Stanky always had a mutual admiration society. Between a late start and World War II, Gordon didn't really hit his stride until he was 30 years old, and then proceeded to hit between 25-30 HRs a year for the next five years. He's undoubtedly the third-best Jewish player to come out of New York City, after Hank Greenberg and Sandy Koufax. He died in 1975 at age 57 after suffering a heart attack while playing softball in Central Park. Tommy Holmes is usually described as the most popular player in the history of the Boston Braves. He was apparently about as congenial as they come. Everybody loved him, and he was an excellent hitter -- a .302 lifetime BA, a .366 OBP and an OPS+ of 122. My only firsthand memory of Holmes is when he came out to congratulate Pete Rose when Rose surpassed Holmes's record of the longest modern National League hitting streak at 37 games in 1978. Rose of course went on to hit in 44 straight -- at age 37, by the way -- but Holmes is still third all-time in the NL after Jimmy Rollins racked up 38 straight over two seasons. That's a bit different of an achievement in my view, but whatever. In 1945 Holmes had an amazing statistic. He hit 28 HRs while striking out only nine times and batting .352. I'll take that any day. Holmes has the third-best strikeout to walk ratio in MLB history, behind Luke Sewell and Mickey Cochrane. Did you know that he was originally signed by the Yankees? He played three years for their AAA Newark Bears affiliate from 1939-1941, a team usually mentioned among the greatest minor league teams ever. Unfortunately the Yankees OF at that time was DiMaggio, Keller and Henrich, so there was no room for Holmes and he was traded to Boston. Holmes worked in the Mets community relations department for 30 years, not retiring until he was 86 years old. Bob Elliott who you mentioned was also a really solid hitter, and considered the best defensive third baseman of his era. He had a career .289 BA, a .375 OBP and an OPS+ of 124. He was a seven-time All Star. My only memory of Elliott was as manager of the Kansas City Athletics in 1960. I had his baseball card and I remember my father telling me about what a good player he had been. Elliott was also a coach on that first Angels team in 1961 that we discussed a few days ago. He died quite young from a ruptured windpipe at the age of 49. Okay, I see what you meant about Richie Ashburn, he was on the 1948 All Star team. That was his rookie season. I saw him play many times at Connie Mack Stadium when I was a kid. Number One. And for ages I listened to him doing Phillies' broadcasts. He was there for 35 years. Richie and Stan Musial are my two favorite non-Yankee players ever, and in both cases I had a personal interaction with them. In the case of Richie, it was actually just about six weeks before he died in 1997. I was living in Los Angeles then and went to a game at Dodger Stadium when the Phillies came in. It was my father's birthday, and I gave a note to one of the attendants to pass to the Phillies' broadcast team, asking if they could wish him a Happy Birthday and that he would be watching back in Philly. Well the attendant came back to me and said that Richie and his broadcast partner Harry Kalas invited me to come into the booth before the game. I went in of course and Richie and Harry treated me like I was an old friend, asked me questions about my father and about where I was from, things like that. When I mentioned that my father's parents had a boarding house back in the 20s and 30s where a lot of Philadelphia A's players had stayed, they were genuinely interested. I pushed for one last request and asked if they could send birthday greetings early in the game because my father was elderly and would probably fall asleep if it was too late in the game. They said they'd do what they could. As soon as I left the booth I called my mother to tell her to make sure my father stayed up as long as possible because Richie and Harry were going to mention his birthday. Well they wished him a Happy Birthday in the top of the first inning and my father was so touched by that. He was deluged with phone calls by people who had heard it. Like both of my parents, I was an Ashburn (and Kalas) fan long before that, but that really was the icing on the cake. One more reason to love baseball. |
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Post by inger on Nov 5, 2023 14:26:37 GMT -5
Ashburn was a favorite of mine because of his amazing number of put outs, and his OBP skills. Stanky was a favorite because I’m always impressed with little guys with little pop that can scrap their way on base. Amazing BB skills.
I’ve heard of and read of the other fellers, but don’t have time to get into them at this moment. Maybe later tonight. Lots of outdoor work getting done now white it warm (Almost too warm, 66 today!) outside...
(Typing on the toilet… 😂🤓🤓)…
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Post by rizzuto on Nov 5, 2023 14:52:06 GMT -5
Pipps: Your comment about the 48 Braves having some hitters caused me to lookup the AllStar team that year. Elliot, Holmes, Sain, Stanky, and the little-known (at least by me) Phil Masi made the team. Stanky was apparently injured and replaced by Bill Rigney. My old, faulty memory had placed Sid Gordon with the Braves that season, but he was really with the Giants then. What I remember from seeing Sid a few times, was that he had occasional power, and was markedly slow afoot. Also that he was a rooting favorite with the Jewish folks. I noticed Richie Ashburn was on that team, which surprised me a bit that he was there that early. Richie went on to have a fine career as you know. If I did not read it wrong the starting pitcher for the NL was Ralph Branca. Of course Ralph was the reliever who came in to relieve Newcombe and gave up the Thompson homer in 51. By the way, Tommy Holmes was one fine hitter from what I saw. I love hearing these names BillyBones. Most of them were just before my time, but they are the guys I would hear my father and uncles and their friends bring up when I was a child. Yes, Sid Gordon came to the Braves from the Giants the year after the Braves won their pennant. Leo Durocher, who had just come to the Giants, liked fast players, which Gordon as you noted most definitely was not, and he traded Sid for Alvin Dark and Eddie Stanky. Monte Irvin had come along to play left and made Gordon expendable. Durocher and Stanky always had a mutual admiration society. Between a late start and World War II, Gordon didn't really hit his stride until he was 30 years old, and then proceeded to hit between 25-30 HRs a year for the next five years. He's undoubtedly the third-best Jewish player to come out of New York City, after Hank Greenberg and Sandy Koufax. He died in 1975 at age 57 after suffering a heart attack while playing softball in Central Park. Tommy Holmes is usually described as the most popular player in the history of the Boston Braves. He was apparently about as congenial as they come. Everybody loved him, and he was an excellent hitter -- a .302 lifetime BA, a .366 OBP and an OPS+ of 122. My only firsthand memory of Holmes is when he came out to congratulate Pete Rose when Rose surpassed Holmes's record of the longest modern National League hitting streak at 37 games in 1978. Rose of course went on to hit in 44 straight -- at age 37, by the way -- but Holmes is still third all-time in the NL after Jimmy Rollins racked up 38 straight over two seasons. That's a bit different of an achievement in my view, but whatever. In 1945 Holmes had an amazing statistic. He hit 28 HRs while striking out only nine times and batting .352. I'll take that any day. Holmes has the third-best strikeout to walk ratio in MLB history, behind Luke Sewell and Mickey Cochrane. Did you know that he was originally signed by the Yankees? He played three years for their AAA Newark Bears affiliate from 1939-1941, a team usually mentioned among the greatest minor league teams ever. Unfortunately the Yankees OF at that time was DiMaggio, Keller and Henrich, so there was no room for Holmes and he was traded to Boston. Holmes worked in the Mets community relations department for 30 years, not retiring until he was 86 years old. Bob Elliott who you mentioned was also a really solid hitter, and considered the best defensive third baseman of his era. He had a career .289 BA, a .375 OBP and an OPS+ of 124. He was a seven-time All Star. My only memory of Elliott was as manager of the Kansas City Athletics in 1960. I had his baseball card and I remember my father telling me about what a good player he had been. Elliott was also a coach on that first Angels team in 1961 that we discussed a few days ago. He died quite young from a ruptured windpipe at the age of 49. Okay, I see what you meant about Richie Ashburn, he was on the 1948 All Star team. That was his rookie season. I saw him play many times at Connie Mack Stadium when I was a kid. Number One. And for ages I listened to him doing Phillies' broadcasts. He was there for 35 years. Richie and Stan Musial are my two favorite non-Yankee players ever, and in both cases I had a personal interaction with them. In the case of Richie, it was actually just about six weeks before he died in 1997. I was living in Los Angeles then and went to a game at Dodger Stadium when the Phillies came in. It was my father's birthday, and I gave a note to one of the attendants to pass to the Phillies' broadcast team, asking if they could wish him a Happy Birthday and that he would be watching back in Philly. Well the attendant came back to me and said that Richie and his broadcast partner Harry Kalas invited me to come into the booth before the game. I went in of course and Richie and Harry treated me like I was an old friend, asked me questions about my father and about where I was from, things like that. When I mentioned that my father's parents had a boarding house back in the 20s and 30s where a lot of Philadelphia A's players had stayed, they were genuinely interested. I pushed for one last request and asked if they could send birthday greetings early in the game because my father was elderly and would probably fall asleep if it was too late in the game. They said they'd do what they could. As soon as I left the booth I called my mother to tell her to make sure my father stayed up as long as possible because Richie and Harry were going to mention his birthday. Well they wished him a Happy Birthday in the top of the first inning and my father was so touched by that. He was deluged with phone calls by people who had heard it. Like both of my parents, I was an Ashburn (and Kalas) fan long before that, but that really was the icing on the cake. One more reason to love baseball. Great post, Pipps and a touching memory of your father. Hearing one's name on television was something otherworldly when I was a kid. I still recall seeing my cousin Walter Rizzuto's name scrolled on the screen during the news when I was a kid. He was one of a multitude of people that were arrested in a drug bust. When I told my father, he didn't even acknowledge it. Evidently, he knew Walter had a problem with drugs, and my father was very reluctant to talk negatively about his immediate family and his brothers' kids. An Italian thing. Something that was 180 degrees different from my mother's side. Whomever wasn't in the room was fair game. Just an aside, Alvin Dark went to high school in Lake Charles, Louisiana, and attended both LSU and USL (now UL). Dark was born in 1922 and my father in 1925. After WWII, there was a fast pitch softball league in south Louisiana that Dark joined and wanted to play shortstop. The coach told him to play shortstop, he needed to unseat my father Anthony Rizzuto. My father held on to the shortstop position for the season, and Alvin went on to play shortstop and third base in the major leagues. My father's younger brother Marion Rizzuto was considered the best shortstop in our town's history, manning the position for the only Louisiana State High School Championship our high school ever had - still to this day. Both of my oldest brothers and my cousin Phil Rizzuto came close to a basketball championship in 1967, 1968, and 1969 - losing to the same eventual champion in each of those seasons in very close games in the finals and semi-finals. |
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