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Post by desousa on Oct 31, 2023 10:44:12 GMT -5
Happy Halloween!
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Post by pippsheadache on Oct 31, 2023 10:48:36 GMT -5
Hope my memory does not fail too badly here. I believe the Angels were an expansion team in 1961, and actually were competitive in their first years. I was surprised that they were able somehow to get a decent squad on the field. I used to get radio feed through the Navy and so I listened to most of their games. Dean Chance was quite good, and Bo Belinsky was mercurial and sometimes good. I cant remember if Fergosi was there in 61, I think Rick Reichart was there. They had a good manager, and were easy to root for as a bunch of upstarts. Does anyone else remember them, and can comment on their early successes? As per the usual, Pippsheadache has chimed in with his flawless memory that I envy. I do add the there were “warning signs” of how good the Angels might be in ‘61, as a few players even appeared on the leader board. Albie Pearson was fourth in OBP at .420. Leon Wagner was eighth in home runs (28) and slugging (.517) and ninth in OPS at .865. Ken McBride was fifth in strikeouts (180) and was third in the league in WAR for pitchers at 5.2, though nobody would know what that meant in 1961. Of course that was the season they played in the bandbox Wrigley Field in LA that made Wrigley Field in Chicago look like the Grand Canyon. I recall Leon Wagner, a big offensive threat who was a defensive negative had a clothing store and used the slogan, “Get your glad rags from Daddy-Wags. In 62 Belinsky had that early season no-hitter and stated the year at 5-0 before only going 5-11 the remainder of the season…and in fact only 23-51 for the rest of his career. He also toted Ann-Margret at his side for a while. Perhaps the most perfect woman (in flesh, don’t want to knock Eve nor Mother Teresa here) ever on the earth. Yow! … Thanks for the compliment Inger, but even though I do admittedly have a bit of a fluke memory for a few very narrow subjects, going back to actually look up a few things brought up several omissions on the obscure topic du jour, the early years of the Los Angeles Angels, Chapter Four. A few other veterans with that team were second baseman Ken Aspromonte, catcher Earl Averill, OFers Faye Throneberry and Chuck Tanner and pitchers Ned Garver, Tom Morgan (a Yankee back in the 50s), Ron Kline and Art Fowler, who was better known as one of Billy Martin's most essential drinking buddies. One Yankee prospect acquired by the Angels who played on that team was first baseman-OFer Lee Thomas. Thomas wasn't drafted by the Angels, but was actually traded by the Yankees to the Angels three weeks into the 1961 season as part of a deal that allowed them to re-acquire Bob Cerv, who the Angels HAD drafted from the Yanks. Thomas had several really good years with the Halos -- he was third in the ROY voting in 1961 -- before settling into a more journeyman career. Cerv played an important role on the 61 Yanks if for no other reason than being part of the menage a trois with Mantle and Maris in the apartment they rented in Queens that summer. Looking at that roster, I noticed what seemed like a disproportionate number of players who went on to become managers -- Chuck Tanner, Buck Rodgers, Del Rice, Jim Fregosi and Ken Aspromonte (still living at 92, as is brother Bob at 85) just off the top of my head, plus Lee Thomas had some success as GM of the Phillies, putting together the 93 NL champion team. I never did any research on it, maybe it's common to have that many players go on to manage. Okay, I checked the 61 Yankees -- only two of them -- Yogi Berra and Billy Gardner -- went on to manage. End of research. Gene Autry was probably my favorite owner of a baseball team. I watched his show, had his records -- best version of "Home On The Range," the original version of "Rudolph The Red-Nosed Reindeer" and my all-time favorite of his "Back In The Saddle Again" which I listen to to this day. Owned the beautiful light sorrel Champion, has the coolest museum of the West, and was generous to and highly regarded by his players. He did everything but win a pennant. That was real heartbreak in 1986 how they lost to Boston in the ALCS. Gene Mauch, Dave Henderson, Donnie Moore, all that. Thanks for reminding us that Ann-Margret was also in Belinsky's Little Black Book. Connie Stevens too. Kaybli almost ruined Ann-Margret for me with that tasteless, twisted photoshop of Greg Bird. I've bleached it out of my brain, but I am sure he will take this as an invitation to inflict it on us again. Not looking Kaybli, can't make me.  |
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Post by kaybli on Oct 31, 2023 11:18:55 GMT -5
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Post by kaybli on Oct 31, 2023 11:20:03 GMT -5
As per the usual, Pippsheadache has chimed in with his flawless memory that I envy. I do add the there were “warning signs” of how good the Angels might be in ‘61, as a few players even appeared on the leader board. Albie Pearson was fourth in OBP at .420. Leon Wagner was eighth in home runs (28) and slugging (.517) and ninth in OPS at .865. Ken McBride was fifth in strikeouts (180) and was third in the league in WAR for pitchers at 5.2, though nobody would know what that meant in 1961. Of course that was the season they played in the bandbox Wrigley Field in LA that made Wrigley Field in Chicago look like the Grand Canyon. I recall Leon Wagner, a big offensive threat who was a defensive negative had a clothing store and used the slogan, “Get your glad rags from Daddy-Wags. In 62 Belinsky had that early season no-hitter and stated the year at 5-0 before only going 5-11 the remainder of the season…and in fact only 23-51 for the rest of his career. He also toted Ann-Margret at his side for a while. Perhaps the most perfect woman (in flesh, don’t want to knock Eve nor Mother Teresa here) ever on the earth. Yow! … Thanks for the compliment Inger, but even though I do admittedly have a bit of a fluke memory for a few very narrow subjects, going back to actually look up a few things brought up several omissions on the obscure topic du jour, the early years of the Los Angeles Angels, Chapter Four. A few other veterans with that team were second baseman Ken Aspromonte, catcher Earl Averill, OFers Faye Throneberry and Chuck Tanner and pitchers Ned Garver, Tom Morgan (a Yankee back in the 50s), Ron Kline and Art Fowler, who was better known as one of Billy Martin's most essential drinking buddies. One Yankee prospect acquired by the Angels who played on that team was first baseman-OFer Lee Thomas. Thomas wasn't drafted by the Angels, but was actually traded by the Yankees to the Angels three weeks into the 1961 season as part of a deal that allowed them to re-acquire Bob Cerv, who the Angels HAD drafted from the Yanks. Thomas had several really good years with the Halos -- he was third in the ROY voting in 1961 -- before settling into a more journeyman career. Cerv played an important role on the 61 Yanks if for no other reason than being part of the menage a trois with Mantle and Maris in the apartment they rented in Queens that summer. Looking at that roster, I noticed what seemed like a disproportionate number of players who went on to become managers -- Chuck Tanner, Buck Rodgers, Del Rice, Jim Fregosi and Ken Aspromonte (still living at 92, as is brother Bob at 85) just off the top of my head, plus Lee Thomas had some success as GM of the Phillies, putting together the 93 NL champion team. I never did any research on it, maybe it's common to have that many players go on to manage. Okay, I checked the 61 Yankees -- only two of them -- Yogi Berra and Billy Gardner -- went on to manage. End of research. Gene Autry was probably my favorite owner of a baseball team. I watched his show, had his records -- best version of "Home On The Range," the original version of "Rudolph The Red-Nosed Reindeer" and my all-time favorite of his "Back In The Saddle Again" which I listen to to this day. Owned the beautiful light sorrel Champion, has the coolest museum of the West, and was generous to and highly regarded by his players. He did everything but win a pennant. That was real heartbreak in 1986 how they lost to Boston in the ALCS. Gene Mauch, Dave Henderson, Donnie Moore, all that. Thanks for reminding us that Ann-Margret was also in Belinsky's Little Black Book. Connie Stevens too. Kaybli almost ruined Ann-Margret for me with that tasteless, twisted photoshop of Greg Bird. I've bleached it out of my brain, but I am sure he will take this as an invitation to inflict it on us again. Not looking Kaybli, can't make me. I'll spare you for now, pipps, but I may randomly text it to you one day when I'm feeling devilish.  |
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Post by chiyankee on Oct 31, 2023 21:54:37 GMT -5
Happy Halloween to all you rats out there. I like how the guy coming down the stairs just casually hurdles the rail and carries on about his business.  |
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Post by kaybli on Oct 31, 2023 22:39:56 GMT -5
Happy Halloween to all you rats out there. I like how the guy coming down the stairs just casually hurdles the rail and carries on about his business.  |
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Post by inger on Oct 31, 2023 22:50:37 GMT -5
Happy Halloween to all you rats out there. I like how the guy coming down the stairs just casually hurdles the rail and carries on about his business. Rizzo looks like he’s already finding the cheese. Maybe he’ll be okay come opening day… |
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Post by inger on Oct 31, 2023 22:55:12 GMT -5
As per the usual, Pippsheadache has chimed in with his flawless memory that I envy. I do add the there were “warning signs” of how good the Angels might be in ‘61, as a few players even appeared on the leader board. Albie Pearson was fourth in OBP at .420. Leon Wagner was eighth in home runs (28) and slugging (.517) and ninth in OPS at .865. Ken McBride was fifth in strikeouts (180) and was third in the league in WAR for pitchers at 5.2, though nobody would know what that meant in 1961. Of course that was the season they played in the bandbox Wrigley Field in LA that made Wrigley Field in Chicago look like the Grand Canyon. I recall Leon Wagner, a big offensive threat who was a defensive negative had a clothing store and used the slogan, “Get your glad rags from Daddy-Wags. In 62 Belinsky had that early season no-hitter and stated the year at 5-0 before only going 5-11 the remainder of the season…and in fact only 23-51 for the rest of his career. He also toted Ann-Margret at his side for a while. Perhaps the most perfect woman (in flesh, don’t want to knock Eve nor Mother Teresa here) ever on the earth. Yow! … Thanks for the compliment Inger, but even though I do admittedly have a bit of a fluke memory for a few very narrow subjects, going back to actually look up a few things brought up several omissions on the obscure topic du jour, the early years of the Los Angeles Angels, Chapter Four. A few other veterans with that team were second baseman Ken Aspromonte, catcher Earl Averill, OFers Faye Throneberry and Chuck Tanner and pitchers Ned Garver, Tom Morgan (a Yankee back in the 50s), Ron Kline and Art Fowler, who was better known as one of Billy Martin's most essential drinking buddies. One Yankee prospect acquired by the Angels who played on that team was first baseman-OFer Lee Thomas. Thomas wasn't drafted by the Angels, but was actually traded by the Yankees to the Angels three weeks into the 1961 season as part of a deal that allowed them to re-acquire Bob Cerv, who the Angels HAD drafted from the Yanks. Thomas had several really good years with the Halos -- he was third in the ROY voting in 1961 -- before settling into a more journeyman career. Cerv played an important role on the 61 Yanks if for no other reason than being part of the menage a trois with Mantle and Maris in the apartment they rented in Queens that summer. Looking at that roster, I noticed what seemed like a disproportionate number of players who went on to become managers -- Chuck Tanner, Buck Rodgers, Del Rice, Jim Fregosi and Ken Aspromonte (still living at 92, as is brother Bob at 85) just off the top of my head, plus Lee Thomas had some success as GM of the Phillies, putting together the 93 NL champion team. I never did any research on it, maybe it's common to have that many players go on to manage. Okay, I checked the 61 Yankees -- only two of them -- Yogi Berra and Billy Gardner -- went on to manage. End of research. Gene Autry was probably my favorite owner of a baseball team. I watched his show, had his records -- best version of "Home On The Range," the original version of "Rudolph The Red-Nosed Reindeer" and my all-time favorite of his "Back In The Saddle Again" which I listen to to this day. Owned the beautiful light sorrel Champion, has the coolest museum of the West, and was generous to and highly regarded by his players. He did everything but win a pennant. That was real heartbreak in 1986 how they lost to Boston in the ALCS. Gene Mauch, Dave Henderson, Donnie Moore, all that. Thanks for reminding us that Ann-Margret was also in Belinsky's Little Black Book. Connie Stevens too. Kaybli almost ruined Ann-Margret for me with that tasteless, twisted photoshop of Greg Bird. I've bleached it out of my brain, but I am sure he will take this as an invitation to inflict it on us again. Not looking Kaybli, can't make me. The Aspromontes also were heavily represented in the TOPPS baseball card sets. Happy to hear they are still truckin’… I can close my eyes and still see their cards… |
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Post by BillyBones on Nov 1, 2023 12:56:00 GMT -5
Wow. What awesome responses from Pipps and Inger on the early expansion Angels. You guys amaze me with your in-depth knowledge. I enjoyed reading every line, and enjoyed the memories. Leon Wagner. He had the weakest arm I have ever seen on anyone. I was able to see a few games and he could hardly get the ball from LF to the SS. I thought Rigney was a good manager, but I confess that I had confused in my mind him and Gene Mauch, who was an even better manager. The rest of the names stimulate memories of them and life at that time. The other LA team at that time was the dominant Dodgers, and I didn't like them because of their history with the Yankees in Brooklyn. Thanks so much for your contributions, guys.
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Post by inger on Nov 1, 2023 13:32:20 GMT -5
Wow. What awesome responses from Pipps and Inger on the early expansion Angels. You guys amaze me with your in-depth knowledge. I enjoyed reading every line, and enjoyed the memories. Leon Wagner. He had the weakest arm I have ever seen on anyone. I was able to see a few games and he could hardly get the ball from LF to the SS. I thought Rigney was a good manager, but I confess that I had confused in my mind him and Gene Mauch, who was an even better manager. The rest of the names stimulate memories of them and life at that time. The other LA team at that time was the dominant Dodgers, and I didn't like them because of their history with the Yankees in Brooklyn. Thanks so much for your contributions, guys. Love hearing from you Billy. You were actually the one that ignited the conversation and stirred memories… thank you… |
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Post by pippsheadache on Nov 1, 2023 14:24:00 GMT -5
Wow. What awesome responses from Pipps and Inger on the early expansion Angels. You guys amaze me with your in-depth knowledge. I enjoyed reading every line, and enjoyed the memories. Leon Wagner. He had the weakest arm I have ever seen on anyone. I was able to see a few games and he could hardly get the ball from LF to the SS. I thought Rigney was a good manager, but I confess that I had confused in my mind him and Gene Mauch, who was an even better manager. The rest of the names stimulate memories of them and life at that time. The other LA team at that time was the dominant Dodgers, and I didn't like them because of their history with the Yankees in Brooklyn. Thanks so much for your contributions, guys. Love hearing from you Billy. You were actually the one that ignited the conversation and stirred memories… thank you… Yep, what Inger said. It's great when you bring up the old stuff. What a wonderful time for you to be in LA. Other than the smog back then. Love your Leon Wagner memory. The Angels had a SS named Joe Koppe who Gene Mauch once said was the worst player he ever managed. I agree with you on Mauch being an outstanding baseball man even though he never could nail down a pennant. He lived and breathed baseball. A very intense, no-nonsense manager who demanded effort from all of his players. Not universally beloved by any means. I know I've mentioned several times in the past how, when he was managing the Phillies in the 1960s, a bunch of us kids would wait around outside the players exit to Connie Mack Stadium for an hour or more after the game to see him, and he would always spend time talking to us, never condescending, talking about why he made this or that move. He was a natural teacher and clearly loved explaining baseball strategy, even with a bunch of stupid kids. He was nothing like the combative, almost violent person you saw arguing with umpires or players during the game. I could hardly believe it was the same guy. I always rooted for him. I don't know if you remember the first Angels' broadcast team -- Don Wells, Bob Kelley and Steve Bailey. A little later they had Dick Enberg and Dave Niehaus, who went on to greater fame doing Mariners' games. Reggie Jackson and Don Drysdale did Angels' games for awhile as well. It was very exotic to listen to late Yankee games from the West Coast in the early 60s -- they started at 11 PM Eastern Time back then. I can remember in the early 70s spending an afternoon at Disneyland or Knott's Berry Farm and then getting on Harbor Boulevard to Katella Avenue for a game at The Big A. Maybe stop at a Foster Freeze or Mr. Stocks if any of those names ring a bell. The fried chicken at Mrs. Knott's was heavenly. Thanks for stirring up the memories Billy. |
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Post by inger on Nov 2, 2023 11:01:13 GMT -5
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Post by kaybli on Nov 2, 2023 11:05:07 GMT -5
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Post by BillyBones on Nov 2, 2023 13:25:17 GMT -5
Pipps, I'm very jealous that you and other kids were able to talk to Gene Mauch about baseball. What a great memory that must be. I thought he was at the pinnacle of baseball managers. My Chicago Uncle thought there was no manager the equal of Leo Durocher, when Leo had a competitive team to manage like the Dodgers or Giants. He said Leo just mailed it in for the paycheck when he managed the hapless Cubs. I guess Leo's finest season was 1951 when the Dodgers got the huge division lead, and Leo's Giants ended up catching them and then winning the pennant. I read that the two clubhouses had only a rather flimsy wall between them, and that after Thomson's homer won the game, the Giants celebration was easily heard through the wall, and there were plenty of taunts, including racial taunts directed at Robinson and Newcombe. The Giants had Monte Ervin and Mays, and that must have been uncomfortable for them. My guess is that Stanky was a ringleader in the taunts. That was a ruder, cruder, era and I'm glad there is more civility today, at least I hope there is. The rookie players were often bullied because were a threat to the livelihood of the veterans. I heard Rizzuto was abused when he came up, and management had to step in, but I don't know any details.
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Post by pippsheadache on Nov 2, 2023 16:13:38 GMT -5
Pipps, I'm very jealous that you and other kids were able to talk to Gene Mauch about baseball. What a great memory that must be. I thought he was at the pinnacle of baseball managers. My Chicago Uncle thought there was no manager the equal of Leo Durocher, when Leo had a competitive team to manage like the Dodgers or Giants. He said Leo just mailed it in for the paycheck when he managed the hapless Cubs. I guess Leo's finest season was 1951 when the Dodgers got the huge division lead, and Leo's Giants ended up catching them and then winning the pennant. I read that the two clubhouses had only a rather flimsy wall between them, and that after Thomson's homer won the game, the Giants celebration was easily heard through the wall, and there were plenty of taunts, including racial taunts directed at Robinson and Newcombe. The Giants had Monte Ervin and Mays, and that must have been uncomfortable for them. My guess is that Stanky was a ringleader in the taunts. That was a ruder, cruder, era and I'm glad there is more civility today, at least I hope there is. The rookie players were often bullied because were a threat to the livelihood of the veterans. I heard Rizzuto was abused when he came up, and management had to step in, but I don't know any details. Hey Billy -- I love your recollections. But I must correct you on one thing -- Eddie Stanky was one of Jackie Robinson's earliest supporters and actually physically confronted Phillies Manager Ben Chapman early in 1947 for his nasty comments to Jackie. He also blasted his Dodgers' teammate Dixie Walker for Walker's negative attitude toward Robinson. There is a photograph of Opening Day 1947 as the Dodgers were about to take the field; Stanky had his hand on Jackie's shoulder as they were perched on the top step of the dugout as a show of support. Stanky was very much an admirer of Leo Durocher, who Stanky played for with the Giants in the early 50s. They shared an intensity toward the game and were both very combative in their approach. Unlike your uncle, I must confess I was never a fan of Durocher. One of the early baseball books I ever read was "The Babe and I" by Babe's widow Claire Ruth. Now obviously she wasn't going to be very objective, but one thing that stood out to me was how much she detested Durocher. Later from more detached sources I learned that when Babe was coaching first base for the Dodgers in 1938 and Leo was the shortstop, Durocher constantly undermined The Babe to Dodgers management. Brooklyn manager Burleigh Grimes planned to retire after the season, and Durocher wanted the managerial job and saw Ruth as a threat. He never missed an opportunity to point out any mistakes Babe made -- missing signs, directing runners, showing up late -- I have no doubt Babe probably wasn't the most attentive coach in history, but Durocher's sneaky subversion was not a mark in his favor in my book. He won a lot of games as a manager, so he obviously was doing something right, but in 26 years as a manager he only won one championship, that with the 1954 Giants. He was suspended for a year as Dodgers' manager in 1947 -- it was actually Burt Shotton who served as interim manager in Robinson's first year -- for his association with gamblers and gangsters like Bugsy Siegel. When he came back in 1948, the Dodgers were playing .500 ball halfway through the year with one of the great lineups ever when he was fired and signed with the Giants where he did have success winning two pennants and a World Series. When the Giants fired him after the 1955 season, he couldn't get a managerial job until the desperate Phil Wrigley of the Cubs brought him out of mothballs in 1966. I am sure you remember the Cubs' epic collapse in 1969, when they had a nine-game lead in mid-August and wound up losing the pennant to the Mets by eight games. Durocher, much as Gene Mauch had done with the Phillies in their collapse in 1964, began using his best pitchers Fergie Jenkins, Bill Hands and Ken Holtzman on consistent two-days of rest as the pennant slipped away. They were worn out coming down the stretch and the Mets sailed past them. I know Ron Santo and many other Cubs hated Durocher. Well this has gotten really long-winded -- hope you're still there -- I just never liked Leo Durocher. Although I must admit he was a natural actor. I remember as a kid seeing him show up on "The Beverly Hillbillies" and "Mr. Ed" and "The Munsters" during the years he was serving as a coach for Walter Alston. He was good bantering with Jethro and Wilbur Post and Herman Munster. Credit where it's due. |
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