|
|
Post by posadafan24 on Mar 13, 2024 21:41:24 GMT -5
Updated, the White Sox made out pretty well.
So, the Yanks could've traded for Cease, if they were willing to strip most of there remaining farm system pitching depth...or surrender Spencer Jones.
All that for a starting pitching who has brilliant stuff, but who has had exactly one elite season in essentially four major league seasons, but one who's been worth about 4 fWAR but 1.6, 2.8 and 0.6 bWAR over the last three seasons. His postseason record is comprised of one good relief appearance and one bad start.
Whether or not you think the Yanks should've made the trade depends on whether you think Cole will be back by June, how strong you think the rest of the team is, and how likely you think it is in consideration of those two evaluations that they're going to make the postseason. Me? I'm not so sure they're making the postseason, so from the Yankees point of view, I wouldn't have made such a trade. For the Padres it makes more sense, because, partly due to the Soto trade, they have far more pitching depth in the majors and minors than the Yankees do right now. Aside from Brito and Vasquez from the Soto trade, they still have Dylan Lesko and Robbie Snelling, two highly regarded pitching prospects.And that is why the yankees look really stupid for not trading for burnes . You all can scream about the future all you want but they are without cole for probably the first half of the season . |
|
|
|
Post by chiyankee on Mar 13, 2024 21:52:46 GMT -5
Here's one reason why so many teams were interested in Cease. Heck, the Yankees could have all three of these guys if they were willing to give up their entire farm system.  |
|
|
|
Post by posadafan24 on Mar 13, 2024 21:59:42 GMT -5
Here's one reason why so many teams were interested in Cease. Heck, the Yankees could have all three of these guys if they were willing to give up their entire farm system. But you ignore that in 2 of his last 3 seasons cease has had eras of over 4 . He is striking out a lot of hitters but he is also giving up a lot of runs and hits . Especially last season |
|
|
|
Post by posadafan24 on Mar 13, 2024 22:15:14 GMT -5
Here's one reason why so many teams were interested in Cease. Heck, the Yankees could have all three of these guys if they were willing to give up their entire farm system. But you ignore that in 2 of his last 3 seasons cease has had eras of over 4 .. he is striking out a lot of guys but he us also giving up a decent amount of hits and runs , especially last season . |
|
|
|
Post by JEGnj on Mar 13, 2024 23:16:31 GMT -5
If Cole is out for half the season or entire season it sucks and is devastating BUT there are 162 games that have not been played yet.
The problem lies in Cashman and Hal's pockets. At the lest few trade deadlines Cash refused to grab the top pitcher because he did not want to give up the prospects. This off season we had some #1 pitcher trades available and Cash did not want to deal top prospects. He had the top closer and Cy Young sitting there and they did not want to pay the luxury tax. We all want to top see and hope the young guys can step up and handle it BUT this is a WIN NOW team. Act like it.
|
|
|
|
Post by posadafan24 on Mar 13, 2024 23:39:28 GMT -5
If Cole is out for half the season or entire season it sucks and is devastating BUT there are 162 games that have not been played yet. The problem lies in Cashman and Hal's pockets. At the lest few trade deadlines Cash refused to grab the top pitcher because he did not want to give up the prospects. This off season we had some #1 pitcher trades available and Cash did not want to deal top prospects. He had the top closer and Cy Young sitting there and they did not want to pay the luxury tax. We all want to top see and hope the young guys can step up and handle it BUT this is a WIN NOW team. Act like it. Thats what i have been saying for years . They look incredibly stupid for not doing the burnes trade |
|
|
|
Post by 1955nyyfan on Mar 14, 2024 8:34:00 GMT -5
Yep, the kid is in demand, been involved in trades for some pretty good MLB players. Must be highly thought of.
Drew Thorpe (SDP) – 4.0 IP, 0 ER, 1 Hits, 2 BBs, 1 Ks. He sat 88/89 mph on his heater. Wait, what? Yeah. It’s a legit changeup, don’t get me wrong, and he has a cutter he targets inside to LHB with a sweeper to RHB, but hot dang, I can’t buy into a prospect arm who sits sub 90 mph, even if that changeup is Wacha/Estrada-esque.
Now, Pollack is speaking as someone who analyzes starting pitching from the perspective of fantasy league players who play in 12- and 15-team mixed leagues, so the value of a major league quality #4 or #5 starter means far less to him, but it does indicate he doesn't think Thorpe's ceiling is very high.I have no idea if Thorpe will be any good or not but the guys who make these projections are often wrong. Some kids work harder than others and improve. Maybe he can use a good sinker and command to establish himself as a quality pitcher even if it's a back end guy. One of the guys you reference from time to time said Wells wasn't a major league catcher, hopefully from what we've seen in a small sample size, he was wrong. I think the bigger point for me is reading the posts that suggest we need to trade all our prospects for every big name on the market. It's just not practical. IT's too expensive from a salary cap perspective to keep adding high priced players to the roster through trades or as FAs. In today's game, no one makes baseball trades, it's often small market teams unloading big contracts for prospects. We have a team that has a payroll of close to $300mm. We've potentially lost our best SP and panic has set in. What does that say about depth or roster construction? I'm looking for a more balanced approach. We do need some young players to establish themselves so we can get some production from players who aren't making $20mm per. While some fans seemingly think the LT is just a speed bump that we can mostly ignore, it is a real thing and it does influence the decisions we make. The emergence of Volpe and Wells can hopefully mitigate some of the bigger contracts but IMO, we need to develop more home grown talent to balance the big amount of money we pay out through free agency and trades. I mean, when was the last time we developed a home grown quality starting pitcher? So my post initiated partly as a reaction from reading for about the 50th time how stupid the FO was for not trading Jones for a SP. None of us know how good Jones might be, but he seems to have a bright future. Soto is likely a rental so there may be a spot for him. Burnes would have been a 1 year rental. I've often been critical of Cash but even with the injury to Cole, I understand why he would not want to give up a prospect like Jones for a 1 year rental. . |
|
|
|
Post by posadafan24 on Mar 14, 2024 8:59:22 GMT -5
For what it's worth, Nick Pollack at Pitcher List just wrote up Thorpe's most recent spring training start:
Drew Thorpe (SDP) – 4.0 IP, 0 ER, 1 Hits, 2 BBs, 1 Ks. He sat 88/89 mph on his heater. Wait, what? Yeah. It’s a legit changeup, don’t get me wrong, and he has a cutter he targets inside to LHB with a sweeper to RHB, but hot dang, I can’t buy into a prospect arm who sits sub 90 mph, even if that changeup is Wacha/Estrada-esque.
Now, Pollack is speaking as someone who analyzes starting pitching from the perspective of fantasy league players who play in 12- and 15-team mixed leagues, so the value of a major league quality #4 or #5 starter means far less to him, but it does indicate he doesn't think Thorpe's ceiling is very high. I have no idea if Thorpe will be any good or not but the guys who make these projections are often wrong. Some kids work harder than others and improve. Maybe he can use a good sinker and command to establish himself as a quality pitcher even if it's a back end guy. One of the guys you reference from time to time said Wells wasn't a major league catcher, hopefully from what we've seen in a small sample size, he was wrong. I think the bigger point for me is reading the posts that suggest we need to trade all our prospects for every big name on the market. It's just not practical. IT's too expensive from a salary cap perspective to keep adding high priced players to the roster through trades or as FAs. In today's game, no one makes baseball trades, it's often small market teams unloading big contracts for prospects. We have a team that has a payroll of close to $300mm. We've potentially lost our best SP and panic has set in. What does that say about depth or roster construction? I'm looking for a more balanced approach. We do need some young players to establish themselves so we can get some production from players who aren't making $20mm per. While some fans seemingly think the LT is just a speed bump that we can mostly ignore, it is a real thing and it does influence the decisions we make. The emergence of Volpe and Wells can hopefully mitigate some of the bigger contracts but IMO, we need to develop more home grown talent to balance the big amount of money we pay out through free agency and trades. I mean, when was the last time we developed a home grown quality starting pitcher? So my post initiated partly as a reaction from reading for about the 50th time how stupid the FO was for not trading Jones for a SP. None of us know how good Jones might be, but he seems to have a bright future. Soto is likely a rental so there may be a spot for him. Burnes would have been a 1 year rental. I've often been critical of Cash but even with the injury to Cole, I understand why he would not want to give up a prospect like Jones for a 1 year rental. . I dont , jones hasnt proven a thing and for a team thats supposed to be all in for a ws they went half assed . I remember the same thing happening with the cliff lee trade because he was a one year rental at the time and look what happened . You can never count on a prospect panning out |
|
|
|
Post by bumper on Mar 14, 2024 9:35:33 GMT -5
I have no idea if Thorpe will be any good or not but the guys who make these projections are often wrong. Some kids work harder than others and improve. Maybe he can use a good sinker and command to establish himself as a quality pitcher even if it's a back end guy. One of the guys you reference from time to time said Wells wasn't a major league catcher, hopefully from what we've seen in a small sample size, he was wrong. I think the bigger point for me is reading the posts that suggest we need to trade all our prospects for every big name on the market. It's just not practical. IT's too expensive from a salary cap perspective to keep adding high priced players to the roster through trades or as FAs. In today's game, no one makes baseball trades, it's often small market teams unloading big contracts for prospects. We have a team that has a payroll of close to $300mm. We've potentially lost our best SP and panic has set in. What does that say about depth or roster construction? I'm looking for a more balanced approach. We do need some young players to establish themselves so we can get some production from players who aren't making $20mm per. While some fans seemingly think the LT is just a speed bump that we can mostly ignore, it is a real thing and it does influence the decisions we make. The emergence of Volpe and Wells can hopefully mitigate some of the bigger contracts but IMO, we need to develop more home grown talent to balance the big amount of money we pay out through free agency and trades. I mean, when was the last time we developed a home grown quality starting pitcher? So my post initiated partly as a reaction from reading for about the 50th time how stupid the FO was for not trading Jones for a SP. None of us know how good Jones might be, but he seems to have a bright future. Soto is likely a rental so there may be a spot for him. Burnes would have been a 1 year rental. I've often been critical of Cash but even with the injury to Cole, I understand why he would not want to give up a prospect like Jones for a 1 year rental. . I dont , jones hasnt proven a thing and for a team thats supposed to be all in for a ws they went half assed . I remember the same thing happening with the cliff lee trade because he was a one year rental at the time and look what happened . You can never count on a prospect panning out and by the same token, you can never count on a championship no matter ho much you load up on star players. going hard after both yamamoto & snell is not half-assed. legit offers. after that they went to plan b - stroman. we can argue til we're blue in the face about whether giving up more prospects for yet another rental (burnes) was a mistake. and even w him & a healthy cole, there were no guarantees. then all you've done is given away a lot of prospects and traded a future for ultimately nothing. the front office drew their line in the sand with spencer jones. from what just about everyone's seen, he looks like he's the real deal. he's at the top of most team's trade demands. they're willing to give away established stars for him. that says a lot. our bed is made. and yeah hopes for a championship have faded particularly w what's going w cole, but gonna root hard for whatever hand we've dealt. there's 162. what i don't understand is if this team gives you so much disappointment and pain, then stop following them. if a girlfriend gave me that much abuse, she'd be gone. apparently you revel in the abuse and misery ... |
|
|
|
Post by posadafan24 on Mar 14, 2024 10:01:39 GMT -5
I dont , jones hasnt proven a thing and for a team thats supposed to be all in for a ws they went half assed . I remember the same thing happening with the cliff lee trade because he was a one year rental at the time and look what happened . You can never count on a prospect panning out and by the same token, you can never count on a championship no matter ho much you load up on star players. going hard after both yamamoto & snell is not half-assed. legit offers. after that they went to plan b - stroman. we can argue til we're blue in the face about whether giving up more prospects for yet another rental (burnes) was a mistake. and even w him & a healthy cole, there were no guarantees. then all you've done is given away a lot of prospects and traded a future for ultimately nothing. the front office drew their line in the sand with spencer jones. from what just about everyone's seen, he looks like he's the real deal. he's at the top of most team's trade demands. they're willing to give away established stars for him. that says a lot. our bed is made. and yeah hopes for a championship have faded particularly w what's going w cole, but gonna root hard for whatever hand we've dealt. there's 162. what i don't understand is if this team gives you so much disappointment and pain, then stop following them. if a girlfriend gave me that much abuse, she'd be gone. apparently you revel in the abuse and misery ... They didnt go hard on snell . And they went half assed after losing out on yamamoto . |
|
|
|
Post by 1955nyyfan on Mar 14, 2024 10:21:12 GMT -5
and by the same token, you can never count on a championship no matter ho much you load up on star players. going hard after both yamamoto & snell is not half-assed. legit offers. after that they went to plan b - stroman. we can argue til we're blue in the face about whether giving up more prospects for yet another rental (burnes) was a mistake. and even w him & a healthy cole, there were no guarantees. then all you've done is given away a lot of prospects and traded a future for ultimately nothing. the front office drew their line in the sand with spencer jones. from what just about everyone's seen, he looks like he's the real deal. he's at the top of most team's trade demands. they're willing to give away established stars for him. that says a lot. our bed is made. and yeah hopes for a championship have faded particularly w what's going w cole, but gonna root hard for whatever hand we've dealt. there's 162. what i don't understand is if this team gives you so much disappointment and pain, then stop following them. if a girlfriend gave me that much abuse, she'd be gone. apparently you revel in the abuse and misery ... They didnt go hard on snell . And they went half assed after losing out on yamamoto . It must be fun for you sitting in on all the FO meetings and getting the real scoop. |
|
|
|
Post by posadafan24 on Mar 14, 2024 10:45:41 GMT -5
They didnt go hard on snell . And they went half assed after losing out on yamamoto . It must be fun for you sitting in on all the FO meetings and getting the real scoop. Its true though and now they are paying the consequences fir going half assed with the rotation after losing out on yamamoto |
|
|
|
Post by 1955nyyfan on Mar 14, 2024 10:57:01 GMT -5
It must be fun for you sitting in on all the FO meetings and getting the real scoop. Its true though and now they are paying the consequences fir going half assed with the rotation after losing out on yamamoto You say they didn't go hard after Snell. How do you know? He is still unsigned, does that mean nobody went hard after him? Is it possible the asking price is just unreasonable? The Yankees made an offer, I'm sure after it was rejected they got a feel for what the price would be. It doesn't mean they might not of been willing to increase their initial offer, perhaps they felt it wasn't going to be enough. You'd make a great GM. You're philosophy seems to be give the agent or the other team's GM exactly what they are asking for. With that approach, even the Yankees would run out of resources at some point. |
|
|
|
Post by posadafan24 on Mar 14, 2024 11:10:03 GMT -5
Its true though and now they are paying the consequences fir going half assed with the rotation after losing out on yamamoto You say they didn't go hard after Snell. How do you know? He is still unsigned, does that mean nobody went hard after him? Is it possible the asking price is just unreasonable? The Yankees made an offer, I'm sure after it was rejected they got a feel for what the price would be. It doesn't mean they might not of been willing to increase their initial offer, perhaps they felt it wasn't going to be enough. You'd make a great GM. You're philosophy seems to be give the agent or the other team's GM exactly what they are asking for. With that approach, even the Yankees would run out of resources at some point. They made one offer to snell and he said nty , thats hardly going all in on snell. And i am not saying they should have given him what he wanted . The smart move would have been doing the burnes trade . Now with cole out they will likely have to overpay for snell or monty or overpay in a trade for someone else . |
|
|
|
Post by Max on Mar 14, 2024 12:37:50 GMT -5
Forget Cease, he's heading to San Diego. That trade wasn't cheap either. The Padres traded 3 of their top 8 prospects. |
|
