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Post by chiyankee on May 9, 2024 14:51:34 GMT -5
I must be watching a different game and also watched a different reply 3 times, because I clearly hear Paulie say that Volpe has to see where Torres is. I also don't see the 3B coach giving a windmill sign for Torres to go home. It looked more like he told Torres to round 3B. Regardless, it's Baseball 101, the trail runner should watch what the lead runner does until the lead runner commits. It' also Baseball 101 not to get thrown out trying to take 2 bases on a ball that didn't leave the infield when your hot hitting #3 hitter is due up. It also looks to me that had Torres tried to score, a good throw gets him called out at home plate. In my judgement they play wouldn't have even been close. I would agree other than that I’m not sure it’s baseball 101. I might think it would be covered under maybe baseball 101.4… If the play was more important in the bigger picture I’d love to watch it in replay another 18-20 times studying every aspect ad nauseam, but under the circumstances I think I’ll pass on that. It’s sure been a great discussion maker though… What shouldn't be lost is that Soto created all that by running hard down to first, forcing the defense to make a mistake and giving the Yankees a run in the process. |
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Post by inger on May 9, 2024 15:28:48 GMT -5
I would agree other than that I’m not sure it’s baseball 101. I might think it would be covered under maybe baseball 101.4… If the play was more important in the bigger picture I’d love to watch it in replay another 18-20 times studying every aspect ad nauseam, but under the circumstances I think I’ll pass on that. It’s sure been a great discussion maker though… What shouldn't be lost is that Soto created all that by running hard down to first, forcing the defense to make a mistake and giving the Yankees a run in the process. Yes, and he hit dribblers to first on two consecutive at bats and turned both of them into something positive by running hard. I was doubly impressed with his effort. There are so many players that hit a ball like that and just cast their bat aside in disgust and and make a 1/2 hearted em jog toward first, making the concession to the defense. He’s a generational player not just in raw talent but on his attitude and desire to succeed. If he sticks around NY he’s five years younger than Judge. He’d make a terrific elder statesman and follow up captain down the road. I thought he might be a prima Donna when we traded for him, but he’s totally the opposite… |
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Post by qwik3457bb on May 9, 2024 15:36:01 GMT -5
I think this was all created by Gleyber dogging it, again. If Torres was running hard the entire time, he would have scored. It would be nice to see Boone finally bench one of these guys for playing lazy baseball. When was the last time you saw a baserunner score from 2B on a infield hit? It happens a few times a season. If I'm not mistaken, Torres has done it himself once or twice in recent years. |
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Post by Max on May 9, 2024 15:44:25 GMT -5
I must be watching a different game and also watched a different reply 3 times, because I clearly hear Paulie say that Volpe has to see where Torres is. I also don't see the 3B coach giving a windmill sign for Torres to go home. It looked more like he told Torres to round 3B. Regardless, it's Baseball 101, the trail runner should watch what the lead runner does until the lead runner commits. It' also Baseball 101 not to get thrown out trying to take 2 bases on a ball that didn't leave the infield when your hot hitting #3 hitter is due up. It also looks to me that had Torres tried to score, a good throw gets him called out at home plate. In my judgement they play wouldn't have even been close. I would agree other than that I’m not sure it’s baseball 101. I might think it would be covered under maybe baseball 101.4… If the play was more important in the bigger picture I’d love to watch it in replay another 18-20 times studying every aspect ad nauseam, but under the circumstances I think I’ll pass on that. It’s sure been a great discussion maker though… Like I said, maybe I must be watching a different game. Maybe it was Torres that made that key three pointer, and Brunson made the wide turn at 3B or maybe it was Walt Frazier.   |
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Post by inger on May 9, 2024 15:44:58 GMT -5
When was the last time you saw a baserunner score from 2B on a infield hit? It happens a few times a season. If I'm not mistaken, Torres has done it himself once or twice in recent years. It’s usually in similar situations with multiple runners to create distractions…but the odds are low… |
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Post by Max on May 9, 2024 15:49:20 GMT -5
I would agree other than that I’m not sure it’s baseball 101. I might think it would be covered under maybe baseball 101.4… If the play was more important in the bigger picture I’d love to watch it in replay another 18-20 times studying every aspect ad nauseam, but under the circumstances I think I’ll pass on that. It’s sure been a great discussion maker though… What shouldn't be lost is that Soto created all that by running hard down to first, forcing the defense to make a mistake and giving the Yankees a run in the process. Soto is a gem. I don't say this about many players, but if amount of money is within reason I hope that Hal gives Soto the amount of money that Soto wants. I think the only other player I said that about was when Cole was a free agent. |
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Post by qwik3457bb on May 9, 2024 16:00:52 GMT -5
It was a 3-2 count, so he was running before the pitch was thrown. It's not uncommon for runners to score from 2nd base on infield hits in this situation, but those runners are players that go all out. Funny...Gleyber was criticized in a recent game thread for "unnecessarily" hustling. I get it...find something...anything...to criticize. First of all, both criticisms of Torres could be correct. That is, he might have hustled in a situation where hustling extra hard was not called for in the game situation...such as, say, hustling to turn a single into a double in the 8th inning of a game in which your team is already up by NINE runs. and failing to hustle (or failing to be completely aware of the game situation, which is in the category of a mental error, rather than a lack of effort error). Both actions CAN be criticized, because both CAN be wrong. Second of all, not all people who criticize Torres aren't ALL looking for anything to criticize. Some of us criticize him for things that he did that are wrong, and also praise him when he does something right, especially when he does something both right and smart. Some of us look at Torres and see a player who has talent, does contribute significantly to the team most seasons, but one whose overall performance is less than we think it could or should be, and that many of the mistakes/misplays he makes are of a kind that saps the team emotionally, i.e. ordinary plays that a championship team, and that players on a championship team must make almost all the time to be real contenders. To some extent, that view of Torres is shaped by the player we thought he was in his first 2-3 seasons with the team, an All-Star level player who could have borderline MVP seasons. He hasn't developed that way and it's a disappointment to us, and perhaps we're a little harder on him than others because of that. But there are other people who look at him and say. Well, he's a good player, more valuable than most at his position, and he's still relatively cheap, and therefore a big asset to the Yanks. And maybe they regard criticism of him as unjustified and excessive. For me, my position on Torres hasn't changed since his very poor seasons in 2020 and 2021: he's a good player but not a great one, and the frequently unforced mistakes he makes in the field and on base cost the Yankees games. I can't pretend I don't see them, or see them and just set them aside. |
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Post by qwik3457bb on May 9, 2024 16:06:44 GMT -5
Funny...Gleyber was criticized in a recent game thread for "unnecessarily" hustling. I get it...find something...anything...to criticize. First of all, both criticisms of Torres could be correct. That is, he might have hustled in a situation where hustling extra hard was not called for in the game situation...such as, say, hustling to turn a single into a double in the 8th inning of a game in which your team is already up by NINE runs. and failing to hustle (or failing to be completely aware of the game situation, which is in the category of a mental error, rather than a lack of effort error) in the 2nd inning of a 3-1 game. Both actions CAN be criticized, because both CAN be wrong. Second of all, not all people who criticize Torres aren't looking for anything to criticize. Some of us criticize him for things that he did that are wrong, and also praise him when he does something right, especially when he does something both right and smart. Some of us look at Torres and see a player who has talent, does contribute significantly to the team most seasons, but one whose overall performance is less than we think it could or should be, and that many of the mistakes/misplays he makes are of a kind that saps the team emotionally, i.e. ordinary plays that a championship team, and that players on a championship team must make almost all the time to be real contenders. To some extent, that view of Torres is shaped by the player we thought he was in his first 2-3 seasons with the team, an All-Star level player who could have borderline MVP seasons. He hasn't developed that way and it's a disappointment to us, and perhaps we're a little harder on him than others because of that. But there are other people who look at him and say. Well, he's a good player, more valuable than most at his position, and he's still relatively cheap, and therefore a big asset to the Yanks. And maybe they regard criticism of him as unjustified and excessive. For me, my position on Torres hasn't changed since his very poor seasons in 2020 and 2021: he's a good player but not a great one, and the frequently unforced mistakes he makes in the field and on base cost the Yankees games. I can't pretend I don't see them, or see them and just set them aside. |
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Post by azbob643 on May 9, 2024 19:26:12 GMT -5
When was the last time you saw a baserunner score from 2B on a infield hit? It happens a few times a season. If I'm not mistaken, Torres has done it himself once or twice in recent years. “It happens a few times a season.” Huh…I watch 150-200 games a year and can’t recall the last time I saw that. You, on the other hand, obviously watch all 162 Yankee games so closely, so intently, you’re able to provide pitch-by-pitch reporting for every game…so I assume you’re easily able to provide specific examples of Gleyber scoring from 2B on an infield hit "in recent years". Help me out…when did that last happen? |
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Post by 1955nyyfan on May 9, 2024 21:36:54 GMT -5
I didn't see a replay but in real time I thought Volpe made the base running error. To me it looked like Gleyber ran hard and rounded the bag, picked up the ball but couldn't return to 3rd base because Volpe had already committed. Volpe may have been fooled by the way Torres aggressively rounded the bag, but IMHO Volpe hung him out to dry.
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Post by inger on May 9, 2024 23:02:22 GMT -5
I didn't see a replay but in real time I thought Volpe made the base running error. To me it looked like Gleyber ran hard and rounded the bag, picked up the ball but couldn't return to 3rd base because Volpe had already committed. Volpe may have been fooled by the way Torres aggressively rounded the bag, but IMHO Volpe hung him out to dry. Nobody died. Lessons were (hopefully) learned. I’m over this one… |
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Post by qwik3457bb on May 10, 2024 1:01:07 GMT -5
It happens a few times a season. If I'm not mistaken, Torres has done it himself once or twice in recent years. “It happens a few times a season.” Huh…I watch 150-200 games a year and can’t recall the last time I saw that. You, on the other hand, obviously watch all 162 Yankee games so closely, so intently, you’re able to provide pitch-by-pitch reporting for every game…so I assume you’re easily able to provide specific examples of Gleyber scoring from 2B on an infield hit "in recent years". Help me out…when did that last happen? Oooh, nifty straw man there, bob. However... It took me a little while to find one, maybe 40 minutes of searching through 2023 box scores, then 2022, but here it is, for what it's worth... May 12, 2022 at Guaranteed Rate Field in Chicago. Game was tied 7-7 in the 8th, Judge up, bases loaded and two down, Joe Kelly pitching, 1-1 count, Torres the runner at 2nd (from the Baseball Reference box score of the game) " Single to 2B (ground ball to SS-2B), M. Gonzales Scores, G. Torres scores, D. LeMahieu to 2B" Yanks took a 9-7 lead on that play, and then added 4 more that innings and 2 more in the 9th, and won in an eventual blowout, 15-7, but at the time, Torres' good baserunning scored an important insurance run. So there it is. Now, I'm not searching through every team's box score in every season just to prove you're wrong about it not happening a few times every season. I know it does, and really, so do you. =========== If you've watched a lot of Yankee games, and I'm sure you do, you've heard Cone mention more than once about the time he thought that had a runner out at 1st on a grounder, but the ump called safe, and Coney froze, argued with him and held the ball while the runner who had been at 2nd took advantage of his brain lock and scored. I think the YES guys have even pulled that play from the video files and shown it once, maybe more than once, when a similar play comes up, a runner scoring from 2nd on an infield hit, or a double play grounder. Acuna also scored from 2nd on an infield hit in 2021. That news story I was able to find after a brief search. Torres scored from 2nd on a double play grounder late last season; I might have been thinking about that play, but he was credited as scoring on an error. If I remember right (ooooh, there's that evil phrase again), he was running all the way and might have scored without the error, but without seeing the video again, I can't be sure. You can keep this argument going if you want, but really, what's the point? The play does happen. It is rare, but it does happen, and Torres did pull it off at least once, and it was a bit less than 2 years ago. |
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Post by rizzuto on May 10, 2024 7:43:54 GMT -5
I didn't see a replay but in real time I thought Volpe made the base running error. To me it looked like Gleyber ran hard and rounded the bag, picked up the ball but couldn't return to 3rd base because Volpe had already committed. Volpe may have been fooled by the way Torres aggressively rounded the bag, but IMHO Volpe hung him out to dry. Nobody died. Lessons were (hopefully) learned. I’m over this one… I’m not certain the Yankees learn lessons on the bases, or if the do, not well enough to avoid the same mistakes. I don’t remember base running gaffes being so prevalent growing up. Of course, there was no way of watching over 100 games per year back then. |
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Post by desousa on May 10, 2024 7:46:43 GMT -5
Nobody died. Lessons were (hopefully) learned. I’m over this one… I’m not certain the Yankees learn lessons on the bases, or if the do, not well enough to avoid the same mistakes. I don’t remember base running gaffes being so prevalent growing up. Of course, there was no way of watching over 100 games per year back then. Now we have social media videos to watch bonehead plays over and over. |
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Post by azbob643 on May 10, 2024 8:16:12 GMT -5
Oooh, nifty straw man there, bob. However... It took me a little while to find one, maybe 40 minutes of searching through 2023 box scores, then 2022, but here it is, for what it's worth... May 12, 2022 at Guaranteed Rate Field in Chicago. Game was tied 7-7 in the 8th, Judge up, bases loaded and two down, Joe Kelly pitching, 1-1 count, Torres the runner at 2nd (from the Baseball Reference box score of the game) " Single to 2B (ground ball to SS-2B), M. Gonzales Scores, G. Torres scores, D. LeMahieu to 2B" Yanks took a 9-7 lead on that play, and then added 4 more that innings and 2 more in the 9th, and won in an eventual blowout, 15-7, but at the time, Torres' good baserunning scored an important insurance run. So there it is. Now, I'm not searching through every team's box score in every season just to prove you're wrong about it not happening a few times every season. I know it does, and really, so do you. You can keep this argument going if you want, but really, what's the point? The play does happen. It is rare, but it does happen, and Torres did pull it off at least once, and it was a bit less than 2 years ago. There’s no “argument”, and I’m not sure where the “straw man” you mentioned is. I never said it didn’t happen…so I’m not sure why you would feel the need “to prove me wrong”. I simply asked when was the last time Gleyber scored from 2B on an IF single and, as I expected, you took the time to research it…40 minutes of looking through 2 years of box scores to find it. The answer is…about 2 years ago. Thanks for the info. In light of your research, I think we can at least agree that a runner scoring from 2B on an IF single is a rarity, which was my original point. |
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