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Post by kaybli on Aug 26, 2018 1:54:01 GMT -5
Inger says:
I think the place to start with an excercise like this is to name a 25 man roster for each team. I would suggest we fill each infield position for each team with a starter and a back up. Including catcher, tgat’s 10 players. Then add five OF so we have two back up OF. That will leave leave ten pitchers, a five man rotation and a five man bullpen. Kind of going old school there, but more years were spent with 8-10 man pitching staffs than with today’s 12-13, so I think that makes sense. For the same reason, if we want a DH, we’ll have to announce a position for him...
How does that sound? ? ?
If you like it, we can open a new thread with an appropriate name. Of course all are invited to join in. Anyone can feel free to name a twenty five man roster (under the stated rules) for any team they feel they can represent, and the masses can decide on roster changes.
Yes, we’ll likely get a lot of Yankee rosters named, but that won’t hurt a thing...
Kaybli, can you please make this post the start of a new thread? I have no idea how without starting this post over... (:
We can call it All Time Best/ Each original team...
Or He Amy Ha, Jr.. Doesn’t really matter.
One other thought, players can qualify for more than one team, but not for more than two. The performance for any team the player is chosen for must be for at least five years and represent the best for the position for that team...
Are we all aboard with that???
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Post by kaybli on Aug 26, 2018 1:55:18 GMT -5
Inger, I think you're going have to explain this exercise further. So people are naming teams from the original 16 teams and seeing which one had the best all time 25 man rosters? Or are we naming historical teams from a particular year say the 1927 New York Yankees?
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Post by inger on Aug 26, 2018 10:47:19 GMT -5
No. We are looking at the roster of the team from the year of inception until today and making up an "all time great at each position" roster for each team...So we have to determine if a player from the dead ball era was better than a power hitter of today, for example. He may have had exceptional power for his era, which would likely translate to exceptional power today. OPS+ will be one indicator tool that will be helpful. Pitcher's ERA has varied so greatly over time that I would see ERA+ as a much greater tool then the raw ERA, etc.
One challenge will be to make up a bullpen for some teams since the modern reliever is relatively new creation, so it will be fair game to assign an extra starter to the bullpen if needed...I already started on the Minnesota Twins, so I've seen how hard the bullpen AND rotation can be to fill out.
Remember, to make the team the player must have 5 seasons with that team. That complicates things a bit too...
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Post by inger on Aug 26, 2018 11:02:13 GMT -5
In answer to Utah's question about WAR, it is but one tool to utilize. Since we'll be looking at both players with 20+ year careers with the one franchise and players with only 5 years, it would be an unfair tool to rely upon 100%...
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Post by utahyank on Aug 26, 2018 11:09:58 GMT -5
No. We are looking at the roster of the team from the year of inception until today and making up an "all time great at each position" roster for each team...So we have to determine if a player from the dead ball era was better than a power hitter of today, for example. He may have had exceptional power for his era, which would likely translate to exceptional power today. OPS+ will be one indicator tool that will be helpful. Pitcher's ERA has varied so greatly over time that I would see ERA+ as a much greater tool then the raw ERA, etc. One challenge will be to make up a bullpen for some teams since the modern reliever is relatively new creation, so it will be fair game to assign an extra starter to the bullpen if needed...I already started on the Minnesota Twins, so I've seen how hard the bullpen AND rotation can be to fill out. Remember, to make the team the player must have 5 seasons with that team. That complicates things a bit too... you are good, inger…..one weakness I inherited from my father is diminishing eyesight as one ages...it is hard for me to read tables and study numbers...I hope it is fun, and not laborious....we are too old (even you) to work unless it's fun... |
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Post by inger on Aug 26, 2018 15:23:08 GMT -5
I’ve completed my Minnesota Twins roster, sort of. I’m trying to finalize my decision on the fifth starting pitcher with three candidates to choose from.
I utilized additional tools on BR. There are lists of too 50 Hiitters and pitchers under “more info about” or some such that are helpful to make sure you’ve not left any significant players off.
I find that the franchise has really struggle to attain great pitching, thought with Walter Johnson and Johaa Santana at the top of the rotation, it’s still pretty good.
I’ll likely get this posted today. As you would expect of a franchise with a record of .480, they surely will not compete with the all time Yankees...but with 100+ years of history to assemble players. They would dominate any division they played in today...
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Post by inger on Aug 27, 2018 15:10:32 GMT -5
I'm now going to submit my all time Minnesota Twins/Washington Senators 25 man team. The franchise had a lifetime .480 winning percentage entering 2018. Feedback appreciated, all choices arguable...
First Base: Harmon Killebrew/Kent Hrbek // AAA: Joe Judge, Justin Morneau, Mickey Vernon
Second Base: Rod Carew/Buddy Meyer // AAA: Chuck Knoblauch, Brian Dozier, Cesar Tovar
SS: Joe Cronin/Roy Smalley, Jr. // AAA: Leo Cardenas, Ed Brinkman
Third Base: Cecil Travis/ Eddie Yost // AAA: Gary Gaetti, Ossie Bluege
Left Field: Goose Goslin
Center Field: Kirby Puckett
Right Field: Sam Rice
OF reserves: Clyde Milan (CF capable), Tony Oliva //AAA: Bobby Allison, Roy Sievers, Torrii Hunter, Stan Spence, Larry Hisle
Catcher: Joe Mauer/Earl Battey // AAA: Butch Wynegar, Brian Harper (also plays OF)
SP: Walter Johnson, Johann Santana, Jim Perry, Bert Blyleven, Camilio Pascual // AAA Brad Radke, Jim Kaat, Frank Viola, Kevin Tapani, Pedro Ramos, General Crowder
RP: Closer: Joe Nathan / Set Up: Rick Aguillera / Others: Eddie Guardado, Firpo Marberry, Glenn Perkins // AAA: Dutch Leonard
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Post by inger on Aug 27, 2018 18:57:08 GMT -5
Utah: ice maker update. The whole fridge was the issue. It got over 15 degrees in the freezer because the blinking machine quit running. The ice maker shuts down at 15 degrees or higher...
When we bought the house the previous owner was crying because he had just bought the fridge for $1900 dollars, so we gave him a grand for this rotten thing.
Warning to my friends: DO NOT BUY LG APPLIANCES. That is the brand Lowes sells. Two years old, broken down and we’re being told the parts could take UP TO 5 WEEKS to get because they’re made overseas...Lowes wouldn’t even schedule a repairman because it’s out of warranty.
BOOOOOOOooooooo!!!
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Post by inger on Aug 28, 2018 22:38:38 GMT -5
Anybody up to do another team? Yankees anyone? ? ?
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Post by utahyank on Aug 29, 2018 10:58:21 GMT -5
I'm now going to submit my all time Minnesota Twins/Washington Senators 25 man team. The franchise had a lifetime .480 winning percentage entering 2018. Feedback appreciated, all choices arguable... First Base: Harmon Killebrew/Kent Hrbek // AAA: Joe Judge, Justin Morneau, Mickey Vernon Second Base: Rod Carew/Buddy Meyer // AAA: Chuck Knoblauch, Brian Dozier, Cesar Tovar SS: Joe Cronin/Roy Smalley, Jr. // AAA: Leo Cardenas, Ed Brinkman Third Base: Cecil Travis/ Eddie Yost // AAA: Gary Gaetti, Ossie Bluege Left Field: Goose Goslin Center Field: Kirby Puckett Right Field: Sam Rice OF reserves: Clyde Milan (CF capable), Tony Oliva //AAA: Bobby Allison, Roy Sievers, Torrii Hunter, Stan Spence, Larry Hisle Catcher: Joe Mauer/Earl Battey // AAA: Butch Wynegar, Brian Harper (also plays OF) SP: Walter Johnson, Johann Santana, Jim Perry, Bert Blyleven, Camilio Pascual // AAA Brad Radke, Jim Kaat, Frank Viola, Kevin Tapani, Pedro Ramos, General Crowder RP: Closer: Joe Nathan / Set Up: Rick Aguillera / Others: Eddie Guardado, Firpo Marberry, Glenn Perkins // AAA: Dutch Leonard great job, inger…..it was SO much fun looking over your lists....that would be a dominating pitching staff today....I think you are right with your first five....Pascual was very good, and deserves that 5th spot....Kaat and Viola would be knocking on the door to start if someone got hurt or faltered....good pick on Aguillera...he was really tough for awhile.....Everyday Eddie...Dutch Leonard...good knuckleball on most days...when not, he would get hit hard. How close was Tony Oliva to winning one of the OF spots?..... |
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Post by inger on Aug 29, 2018 11:31:20 GMT -5
If sentiment were to play a role, Olivia would have been the right fielder, and Bobby Allison would be on the roster instead of AAA.
I should have also noted the Rice was CF-capable. In fact he would still slide over to CF on occasion when he was 41. I felt as though Rice, with his powerful arm and speed would be the right choice in the field. Rice hit only 34 career HR, but transplanted into today’s environment I would imagine that a portion of his doubles and triples, which he hit in abundance would leave the park, perhaps 10-12 per year at minimum. Rice, like Tony O., hit for a good BA, had a good OBP, and could slash out 200-hit seasons.
Olivia would surely pinch hit almost daily if the pitcher were batting. If he played under today’s rules, he’d be the starting DH. Tony would most often be the first man off my bench.
You know who really had a great career in Minnesota that is almost unappreciated? AAA catcher/of Brian Harper was a deadly little .300 hitter during his stay in Minnesota, and I recall his arm in the OF to have been respected greatly by base runners. I don’t recall if that translated to his catching though. I think I would recall him from AAA if I had an injured catcher before I would the switch-hitting Wynegar, but I can’t say I’m certain of that. Maybe it would depend on if Mayer or Battey went down. Battey was a tough, tough man as I recall. You didn’t want to cross the normally taciturn Earl...
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Post by inger on Aug 29, 2018 11:43:46 GMT -5
So, I thought i’d Fact-check myself. As I feared, I had Harper confused for someone else as an OF. He seldom had an assist from the OF, played more in LF than right. His catching skills featured a lot of PB, though most years he had a decent CS%, runners did run frequently against him. So it would also come down to the relative healt of my OF if I would promote Harper or Wynegar. Wynegst’s defense behind the plate was much, much better.
Harper did hit .304 in his six year stay in Minnesota, and no more than .243 for any other team. Something in the Minnesota air? Sort of. Those years were his prime years, plus he got anywhere from regular to semi-regular playing time there vs. being buried on the bench in Pittsburgh and elsewhere...
I think I’m be off for Chicago next, where I’ll switch leagues and review the Cubs before going across town to say high to chiyankee and his local pale-hosed friends. I didn’t want to wait for winter to go to Chicago...
This will be a slow process from time to time if no one else pitches in, and I hope i’m Up to the entire task. Sometimes I get busy...
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Post by inger on Aug 29, 2018 11:56:14 GMT -5
Since i’ve Never been in this part of the country, i’ll Take an imaginary drive from Minneapolis-St Paul to Chicago.
Utah, can you entertain me? The radio’s broken in this imaginary vehicle. I wanted to ask you if you can think of anyone I missed on those old Senators and Twins teams?
You gave insight into Dutch Leonard as to why he was sent to AAA as well as how he might me helpful to us if the need arises. I’m curious about Goose Goslin and Sam Rice as to whether you know much about them. Or have any recollections of them afield.
Also, Joe Cronin was quite a good fielding SS. I noticed that he hit for a good bit more HR power after he was dealt to Boston (I suspect we’ll see Mr. Cronin in Boston, as well. Would you attribute that to the change in venue, or do you think he simply matured as a hitter? He was no slouch in Washington...
It’s fun to imagine that we can place all of these player’s in the same time frame and have the play with and against their future and past peers...I have more ability to imagine them playing either today, or back around the mid-to late seventies through mid eighties...
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Post by utahyank on Aug 29, 2018 12:39:35 GMT -5
The only one I thought would be somewhere on the all-time list and was missing was Bucky Harris....I may have thought he was better than his numbers showed....I think he married the owners daughter and got some recognition above what otherwise may have been his due...
I never saw Sam Rice...I remember him from the box scores....some writers called him "little" so I envisioned him as small and quick...I think you are right that Oliva would be pressing Sam hard for the RF spot....
Goose Goslin I did see when he was with Detroit....I was about 10, so maybe 1936 or '37...he was powerfully built, and a good hitter....he would translate well to the power swings of today...
Cronin I saw a fair amount of when he was with Boston...he was a really good player, and I think his best years were in Boston....
Geographically, it was tough for a Nebraska kid to see the 30's and 40's Washington team play...after I got out of the Army I was working along the East Coast from 1949 for a few years...the Senators were a poor team then, with only a few players fun to watch...Pascual and Yost stand out in memory....when they got to Minnesota they got an influx of players....Killebrew, Allison, Oliva....best to you...
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Post by inger on Aug 29, 2018 13:10:06 GMT -5
Thanks, Utah. Even the slightest glimpse from you is huge for most of us that never saw any of those guys, even on the box scores or comments from writers of the times. Much appreciated. You are truly a treasure to this site. I’m so happy that you chose to join us here...
It makes it a joy to do the leg work to set these teams up. O’ve Found many ways to short cut to the meat of the teams.
I’ll delve a bit further into the player you suggested and see if there is room for Bucky Harris. I did have a glimpse at him, but recall having been dismissive, perhaps too much so. I always want to remember that some players had intangibles and that glove work is not traced as well as offensive work (hence Rice over Olivia, for instance)...
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