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Post by pippsheadache on Sept 3, 2018 20:28:13 GMT -5
Inger -- nice to see you mention Elmer Valo and Bobby Shantz, two very nice men from my neck of the woods. I think I know that Valo card you mentioned; I think it was a 1960 card, the one with the split screen. Elmer Valo was what used to be called a solid citizen. He is one of those players I think of who were near the end of their careers when I first started following baseball. Like Shantz, a favorite of Connie Mack near the end of his run.
Bobby Shantz was active for many years in the Philadelphia Athletics Historical Society, which my father was involved with as well, so I got to meet him a few times at their get-togethers. He was very shy and reluctant to talk about his own accomplishments, which were considerable -- he did win an MVP award. He was Rizzuto-short, you would never think he had been an outstanding athlete. He will turn 93 in a few weeks and has to be one of the few surviving Philadelphia Athletics. I read somewhere that he was the oldest surviving Houston Astro. And of course he gave the Yankees several solid years in the late 50s and early 60s. I probably should have put him on the team just because I like him and because he was a good Yankee!! But the Athletics have a history of great pitchers. People forget how good Ken Holtzman was for awhile with the Reggie-Catfish A's. Dave Stewart of course in the running. They did have a high percentage of southpaws among their best pitchers.
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Post by kaybli on Sept 3, 2018 20:39:36 GMT -5
I disagree, pipps. So good to see you around after a long time my friend!
[img class="smile" alt="  " src="//storage.proboards.com/6828121/images/GrILXII0gEtiXbGQCZTt.gif"]
It's so great to have you here! Missed you buddy!
Boy, it's good to be responding to you Kaybli my old pal. You have not lost a step with your hilarious insights. Feels good to be back and talking some Womack again. Your all-time Yankee nightmare team was a hoot! LaTroy Hawkins!! You just missed his sucky namesake (at least as a Yankee) Andy Hawkins by just a few years.
[img class="smile" alt="  " src="//storage.proboards.com/6828121/images/jDJlHGGBhpTsTqXnhrCV.gif"] I'm glad you enjoyed the Yankee nightmare team pipps! I looked up Andy Hawkins on baseball reference, those ERA's man, what a mess! Hope you're doing well! I will be going to the Yankees wild card game (as long as they hold on to homefield advantage. You won't see my ass in Oakland LOL.) How do you feel about this year's team?
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Post by inger on Sept 3, 2018 21:02:39 GMT -5
Inger -- nice to see you mention Elmer Valo and Bobby Shantz, two very nice men from my neck of the woods. I think I know that Valo card you mentioned; I think it was a 1960 card, the one with the split screen. Elmer Valo was what used to be called a solid citizen. He is one of those players I think of who were near the end of their careers when I first started following baseball. Like Shantz, a favorite of Connie Mack near the end of his run. Bobby Shantz was active for many years in the Philadelphia Athletics Historical Society, which my father was involved with as well, so I got to meet him a few times at their get-togethers. He was very shy and reluctant to talk about his own accomplishments, which were considerable -- he did win an MVP award. He was Rizzuto-short, you would never think he had been an outstanding athlete. He will turn 93 in a few weeks and has to be one of the few surviving Philadelphia Athletics. I read somewhere that he was the oldest surviving Houston Astro. And of course he gave the Yankees several solid years in the late 50s and early 60s. I probably should have put him on the team just because I like him and because he was a good Yankee!! But the Athletics have a history of great pitchers. People forget how good Ken Holtzman was for awhile with the Reggie-Catfish A's. Dave Stewart of course in the running. They did have a high percentage of southpaws among their best pitchers. Your neck of the woods, and my former (again) neck of the woods...It’s really cool that you got to meet Shantz, and that he’s such a humble man. Imagine being a 93 year-old former baseball MVP, yet of such tiny stature that no one seeing you on the street would hace an inkling of who you are or what you’ve accomplished. I hope he’s healthy and remains active for many more years... |
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Post by utahyank on Sept 3, 2018 22:05:46 GMT -5
Inger -- nice to see you mention Elmer Valo and Bobby Shantz, two very nice men from my neck of the woods. I think I know that Valo card you mentioned; I think it was a 1960 card, the one with the split screen. Elmer Valo was what used to be called a solid citizen. He is one of those players I think of who were near the end of their careers when I first started following baseball. Like Shantz, a favorite of Connie Mack near the end of his run. Bobby Shantz was active for many years in the Philadelphia Athletics Historical Society, which my father was involved with as well, so I got to meet him a few times at their get-togethers. He was very shy and reluctant to talk about his own accomplishments, which were considerable -- he did win an MVP award. He was Rizzuto-short, you would never think he had been an outstanding athlete. He will turn 93 in a few weeks and has to be one of the few surviving Philadelphia Athletics. I read somewhere that he was the oldest surviving Houston Astro. And of course he gave the Yankees several solid years in the late 50s and early 60s. I probably should have put him on the team just because I like him and because he was a good Yankee!! But the Athletics have a history of great pitchers. People forget how good Ken Holtzman was for awhile with the Reggie-Catfish A's. Dave Stewart of course in the running. They did have a high percentage of southpaws among their best pitchers. Is Brother Billy Shantz still alive? Do you remember a first baseman by the name of Lou Limmer? Where do you rate Joost on the A's SS list?.... |
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Post by inger on Sept 3, 2018 22:36:24 GMT -5
Inger -- nice to see you mention Elmer Valo and Bobby Shantz, two very nice men from my neck of the woods. I think I know that Valo card you mentioned; I think it was a 1960 card, the one with the split screen. Elmer Valo was what used to be called a solid citizen. He is one of those players I think of who were near the end of their careers when I first started following baseball. Like Shantz, a favorite of Connie Mack near the end of his run. Bobby Shantz was active for many years in the Philadelphia Athletics Historical Society, which my father was involved with as well, so I got to meet him a few times at their get-togethers. He was very shy and reluctant to talk about his own accomplishments, which were considerable -- he did win an MVP award. He was Rizzuto-short, you would never think he had been an outstanding athlete. He will turn 93 in a few weeks and has to be one of the few surviving Philadelphia Athletics. I read somewhere that he was the oldest surviving Houston Astro. And of course he gave the Yankees several solid years in the late 50s and early 60s. I probably should have put him on the team just because I like him and because he was a good Yankee!! But the Athletics have a history of great pitchers. People forget how good Ken Holtzman was for awhile with the Reggie-Catfish A's. Dave Stewart of course in the running. They did have a high percentage of southpaws among their best pitchers. Is Brother Billy Shantz still alive? Do you remember a first baseman by the name of Lou Limmer? Where do you rate Joost on the A's SS list?.... There are some good questions. Billy left us early, in 1993 at age 66. I like Joost for his six consecutive 100+ BB seasons and .122 differential between BA and OBP (.239 vs. .361, I believe it was)...He added double figure HR pop to his game once he was dealt to PHI, I would suppose because he took advantage of the short foul lines in Baker Bowl... He was always good for at least 20 errors every season, often way more, at SS. That doesn't mean he was a bad SS though... |
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Post by utahyank on Sept 3, 2018 22:43:23 GMT -5
Is Brother Billy Shantz still alive? Do you remember a first baseman by the name of Lou Limmer? Where do you rate Joost on the A's SS list?.... There are some good questions. Billy left us early, in 1993 at age 66. I like Joost for his six consecutive 100+ BB seasons and .122 differential between BA and OBP (.239 vs. .361, I believe it was)...He added double figure HR pop to his game once he was dealt to PHI, I would suppose because he took advantage of the short foul lines in Baker Bowl... He was always good for at least 20 errors every season, often way more, at SS. That doesn't mean he was a bad SS though... thanks inger….Bobby and Billy are part of the short list of brothers who were pitcher and catcher on the same team....it was good to hear Bobby is still alive... |
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Post by utahyank on Sept 4, 2018 11:31:39 GMT -5
speaking of the all-time A's team....Pipp has it right of course with Foxx and Giambi at 1B....but there was a 1B that was good, and I couldn't think of him yesterday, but it came to me last night...Ferris Fain...the guy could hit....he deserves some mention...
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Post by desousa on Sept 4, 2018 11:56:54 GMT -5
speaking of the all-time A's team....Pipp has it right of course with Foxx and Giambi at 1B....but there was a 1B that was good, and I couldn't think of him yesterday, but it came to me last night...Ferris Fain...the guy could hit....he deserves some mention... Stuffy McInnis was another A's first baseman that could hit. |
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Post by utahyank on Sept 4, 2018 12:37:03 GMT -5
speaking of the all-time A's team....Pipp has it right of course with Foxx and Giambi at 1B....but there was a 1B that was good, and I couldn't think of him yesterday, but it came to me last night...Ferris Fain...the guy could hit....he deserves some mention... Stuffy McInnis was another A's first baseman that could hit. good one....I had heard of him from when I was a boy...wish I could have seen him... |
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Post by inger on Sept 4, 2018 13:42:03 GMT -5
I think that Fain and McInnis make excellent depth pieces. Fain started his MLB career a bit late at 26 and ended it pretty early, too. His window was short, and he never hit more than 10 HR in a season. I would put him closer to a Chris Chambliss type than a star, though he drew a tremendous number of walks.
McInnis only hit 20 HR in his 19 year career, but most of that career was before Babe Ruth changed the face of baseball with the HR. What I usually look at for the guys that played in the dead ball era is how many doubles and triples they used to hit in the gaps. My reasoning is that if they had a lot of doubles and triples in those bigger ball yards they may morph into HR today. McInnis had good BA's, but seldom hit for extra bases. His lifetime slash of .307/.343/.381 reveals a hitter that was a free-swinger with almost no power. In his best years he barely reached more than 40 XBH in a season. ISO power of .074 is almost as low as that of Ed Brinkman (.070)... That is not to criticize the man, for he played baseball in the style of the day and was known as an exquisite fielder at first base...
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Post by utahyank on Sept 4, 2018 17:19:38 GMT -5
Those Oakland A's teams of the early 70's were quite a bunch....I loved their style, and I believe they may have won 3 WS in a row (?)...they had a 2B I haven't seen mentioned...Dick Green...nothing special, just a solid player....and a very good manager in Dick Williams......does anyone else remember the situation and clever acting that resulted in Rollie Fingers sneaking a slider 3rd strike on Johnny Bench when Bench was convinced they were going to walk him and pitch to Perez?.....all-time classic...
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Post by pippsheadache on Sept 4, 2018 18:41:11 GMT -5
speaking of the all-time A's team....Pipp has it right of course with Foxx and Giambi at 1B....but there was a 1B that was good, and I couldn't think of him yesterday, but it came to me last night...Ferris Fain...the guy could hit....he deserves some mention... Stuffy McInnis was another A's first baseman that could hit. Concur with both of you guys. I should have put more honorable mention players. But I was rusty after being away so long. If memory serves, Ferris Fain was an MLB pioneer in the growing and use of marijuana. He was considered a hell-raiser, a heavy drinker who fought a lot with his teammates. The guy was an amazing hitter and a great OBP guy. Won two batting titles. Unfortunately, his career was rather short -- only about seven full seasons. I get the impression that he was in some ways the baseball equivalent of John Daly in golf -- great talent, no self-control. Stuffy McInnis was a key component on some great A's teams. A man I knew who saw them all from the days of Ed Delahanty to the days of Reggie Jackson used to talk about how McInnis was almost a contortionist at first base, literally doing all-out splits to get the ball into his glove sooner to beat the runner. |
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Post by pippsheadache on Sept 4, 2018 18:53:00 GMT -5
I'm glad you enjoyed the Yankee nightmare team pipps! I looked up Andy Hawkins on baseball reference, those ERA's man, what a mess! Hope you're doing well! I will be going to the Yankees wild card game (as long as they hold on to homefield advantage. You won't see my ass in Oakland LOL.) How do you feel about this year's team?
Kaybli, you are fortunate you just missed the Yanks of the late 80s and early 90s. Padres territory. The Stump Merrill team had as its main starters guys like Jeff Johnson and Wade Taylor and Scott Kamienicki and Chuck Cary and Dave Eiland. On its worst day, today's team would have beaten those guys nine out of ten games. Little did we know that salvation was just a few years away (thank you for all eternity Stick Michael.) About this year's team -- sure, frustrated with the sloppy (even stupid) play and the erratic starting pitching. But I still think, as confused as they can look, that they have the capacity to get hot again and make some trouble in the post-season. I love the energy of the young guys and it took Aaron Judge about two weeks to become one of my all-time favorite Yankees. This is so much more fun than watching exorbitantly-paid old guys on cruise control. And I say that as an old guy on cruise control! |
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Post by rizzuto on Sept 4, 2018 18:56:05 GMT -5
Stuffy McInnis was another A's first baseman that could hit. Concur with both of you guys. I should have put more honorable mention players. But I was rusty after being away so long. If memory serves, Ferris Fain was an MLB pioneer in the growing and use of marijuana. He was considered a hell-raiser, a heavy drinker who fought a lot with his teammates. The guy was an amazing hitter and a great OBP guy. Won two batting titles. Unfortunately, his career was rather short -- only about seven full seasons. I get the impression that he was in some ways the baseball equivalent of John Daly in golf -- great talent, no self-control. Stuffy McInnis was a key component on some great A's teams. A man I knew who saw them all from the days of Ed Delahanty to the days of Reggie Jackson used to talk about how McInnis was almost a contortionist at first base, literally doing all-out splits to get the ball into his glove sooner to beat the runner. Pipps! Welcome back! Great to read your posts again! |
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Post by pippsheadache on Sept 4, 2018 19:10:40 GMT -5
Okay, I will put up my all-time team for the Philadelphia Phillies, who other than the Yankees are the team I know most about through the accident of geography. Feel free to lob grenades at these choices. Unlike the Athletics, the Phillies team is skewed much more heavily toward recent generations. That's because they stunk for most of their history.
First Base -- Dick Allen/Ryan Howard
Second Base -- Chase Utley/Tony Taylor
Shortstop -- Jimmy Rollins/Larry Bowa
Third Base -- Mike Schmidt/Scott Rolen
Catcher -- Carlos Ruiz/Stan Lopata
Outfield -- Chuck Klein, Richie Ashburn, Ed Delahanty/Sherry Magee, Gavvy Cravath
Pitchers -- Grover Cleveland Alexander, Robin Roberts, Steve Carlton, Jim Bunning, Cole Hamels, Curt Schilling, Chris Short, Curt Simmons, Tug McGraw, Jim Konstanty.
It was almost a coin flip between Lopata and Darren Daulton at backup catcher. Andy Seminick was also in the running. Del Ennis and Gary Maddox and Greg Luzinski get honorable mention in the OF. Backup at second is relatively weak. Going with Inger's five-year rule (which I agree with BTW) eliminated the likes of Dave Cash and Manny Trillo. Granny Hamner was excellent defensively, but couldn't hit a lick. Tony Taylor was one of the most beloved Phillies ever; you had to be there, I guess, but I wanted him on the team. I can remember once in the late 1970s going to visit the burned-out and overgrown site of Shibe Park/Connie Mack Stadium in a bad area of North Philly. Tony Taylor had just been there, walking through the weeds and rubble and no doubt seeing it as it once was. Seems he dropped by every now and then.
For a team as historically bad as the Phillies, they have four no-doubt HOFers among the starting pitchers. Only two bona fide relievers here, McGraw and Konstanty. Not many people recall (Utah probably does) that Konstanty gave the Yanks some effective performances at the end of his career in the mid-50s.
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