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Post by kaybli on Jun 25, 2021 0:18:20 GMT -5
One further point. No matter how Boone screwed things up, I didn't like the way Chapman handled it, showing up his manager by throwing a fit on the mound and in the dugout. He definitely has some anger issues. How did he throw a fit? And, how did that show up Boone? Players throw their gloves, helmets, etc. and emote all the time. Why is it different because it was Chapman? He definitely threw a fit. You can agree with it or not, but that's the angriest I've ever seen him. I'm not saying players should be robots but that was too much for me. Don't want him punching a wall a la Kevin Brown. |
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Post by rizzuto on Jun 25, 2021 1:11:47 GMT -5
How did he throw a fit? And, how did that show up Boone? Players throw their gloves, helmets, etc. and emote all the time. Why is it different because it was Chapman? He definitely threw a fit. You can agree with it or not, but that's the angriest I've ever seen him. I'm not saying players should be robots but that was too much for me. Don't want him punching a wall a la Kevin Brown. It’s not that I do or don’t agree, I just do not understand. Maybe you saw something that I didn’t? What constitutes a fit, in your estimation? Anything the Yankees do is normally news, but I didn’t see anything out of the ordinary for MLB. It may have been the angriest you’ve seen him, but Chapman normally shows little emotion at all, relatively speaking. We’ve seen guys punch themselves in the face, throw bats and water coolers on the field, beat a telephone with a bat, punch the Gatorade cooler, try to fight teammates, etc. All I saw was Chapman yell once in front of the mound and once walking across the dugout. Neither time did it seem directed toward anyone other than himself. Is that throwing a fit? |
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Post by kaybli on Jun 25, 2021 1:17:30 GMT -5
He definitely threw a fit. You can agree with it or not, but that's the angriest I've ever seen him. I'm not saying players should be robots but that was too much for me. Don't want him punching a wall a la Kevin Brown. It’s not that I do or don’t agree, I just do not understand. Maybe you saw something that I didn’t? What constitutes a fit, in your estimation? Anything the Yankees do is normally news, but I didn’t see anything out of the ordinary for MLB. It may have been the angriest you’ve seen him, but Chapman normally shows little emotion at all. We’ve seen guys punch themselves in the face, throw bats and water coolers on the field, beat a telephone with a bat, punch the Gatorade cooler, etc. All I saw was Chapman yell once in front of the mound and once walking across the dugout. Is that throwing a fit? I thought so. Maybe it seemed more menacing because Chapman is such a big dude. Maybe Chapman's prior indiscretions are clouding my judgement of his actions. Honestly, its still hard for me to support German or Chapman. I hold my nose and do it. But that's another topic for another day I guess. But either way, thank you for challenging some of my viewpoints. I always welcome a different perspective. |
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Post by rizzuto on Jun 25, 2021 1:57:48 GMT -5
It’s not that I do or don’t agree, I just do not understand. Maybe you saw something that I didn’t? What constitutes a fit, in your estimation? Anything the Yankees do is normally news, but I didn’t see anything out of the ordinary for MLB. It may have been the angriest you’ve seen him, but Chapman normally shows little emotion at all. We’ve seen guys punch themselves in the face, throw bats and water coolers on the field, beat a telephone with a bat, punch the Gatorade cooler, etc. All I saw was Chapman yell once in front of the mound and once walking across the dugout. Is that throwing a fit? I thought so. Maybe it seemed more menacing because Chapman is such a big dude. Maybe Chapman's prior indiscretions are clouding my judgement of his actions. Honestly, its still hard for me to support German or Chapman. I hold my nose and do it. But that's another topic for another day I guess. Perhaps because I grew up in a volatile home and school environment, I have a greater tolerance for emotional and even physical outbursts. And, I have enough imperfections that I try not hold myself above or in judgment of anyone else, especially on the periphery of personal knowledge of specific situations and circumstances - the old adage of walking miles in someone else’s moccasins. Redemption and reconciliation have real human value, but only conceptually and by definition in the atonement for a past transgression. There is not much meaning in throwing life preservers to strong swimmers or providing aide and support to those who don’t require it. I’ll get off the soap box now. |
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Post by kaybli on Jun 25, 2021 2:08:29 GMT -5
I thought so. Maybe it seemed more menacing because Chapman is such a big dude. Maybe Chapman's prior indiscretions are clouding my judgement of his actions. Honestly, its still hard for me to support German or Chapman. I hold my nose and do it. But that's another topic for another day I guess. Perhaps because I grew up in a volatile home and school environment, I have a greater tolerance for emotional and even physical outbursts. And, I have enough imperfections that I try not hold myself above or in judgment of anyone else, especially on the periphery of personal knowledge of specific situations and circumstances - the old adage of walking miles in someone else’s moccasins. Redemption and reconciliation have real human value, but only conceptually and by definition in the atonement for a past transgression. There is not much meaning in throwing life preservers to strong swimmers or providing aide and support to those who don’t require it. I’ll get off the soap box now. Perfectly understandable. I don't know if you saw my edit to the last post at the end, but I said I do thank you for challenging some of my viewpoints. I always welcome a different perspective. |
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Post by inger on Jun 25, 2021 7:33:27 GMT -5
We obviously have a different way of viewing his “recent” performance. Each is entitled to that view… So, you believe the .731 Slugging Percentage is perfectly representative of how Chapman has pitched recently, rather than the 5 walks in his last three appearances? Absolutely. Neither is good… I hope he can get it turned around quickly. When location is poor it can lead to walks. It can also lead to home runs or other hard-hit balls… |
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Post by rizzuto on Jun 25, 2021 15:37:28 GMT -5
So, you believe the .731 Slugging Percentage is perfectly representative of how Chapman has pitched recently, rather than the 5 walks in his last three appearances? Absolutely. Neither is good… I hope he can get it turned around quickly. When location is poor it can lead to walks. It can also lead to home runs or other hard-hit balls… Babe Ruth had a career slugging percentage of .690. So, .731 would mean that every single batter Chapman faces is a better slugger than Babe Ruth. And, you believe that is absolutely, perfectly representative of how Chapman is pitching, rather than a small sample anomaly, even though it has been his five walks that have driven in three of his last four runs allowed and the three hits he’s given up in his last two appearances were a single, a bloop double, and a check swing infield single with LeMahieu playing deep? Your credibility is straining on this issue. |
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Post by inger on Jun 25, 2021 17:28:45 GMT -5
Absolutely. Neither is good… I hope he can get it turned around quickly. When location is poor it can lead to walks. It can also lead to home runs or other hard-hit balls… Babe Ruth had a career slugging percentage of .690. So, .731 would mean that every single batter Chapman faces is a better slugger than Babe Ruth. And, you believe that is absolutely, perfectly representative of how Chapman is pitching, rather than a small sample anomaly, even though it has been his five walks that have driven in three of his last four runs allowed and the three hits he’s given up in his last two appearances were a single, a bloop double, and a check swing infield single with LeMahieu playing deep? Your credibility is straining on this issue. His last two appearances, he was first rescued by a triple play. Then, there’s the last appearance where he left meatball hanging sliders over the plate that fortunately for him froze consecutive hitters or there may have been more hard hit balls and more runs. I never said it’s not short term, nor did I say it was not an anomaly. I even mentioned that he’s been victimized my some bloops and bleeders. I think you’re stuck on this issue that you’ve read too much into what I said. I’m not backing down from it, and neither will you because we’re a pair of hard-headed guys that don’t back down. Yes. He’s been turning some pretty mediocre hitters into Babe Ruth of late. It’s shocking because that’s not what you expect of Aroldis Chapman when he takes the mound. Is it correctable? Man, I hope so. Most of his past slumps have been when he’s not getting velocity over 96-97. That’s not the case this time. Even Mo Rivera had bad games and short bad stretches. When he did, he pitched poorly. I just don’t know what I can say that’s going diffuse you at this point. If I did, I don’t know if I would say it, because to me, those numbers tell a complete story of what I’ve seen from Chapman since June 10. I dread seeing him enter a baseball game right now because he’s not delivering the kind of product we need from him… |
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Post by rizzuto on Jun 25, 2021 17:54:07 GMT -5
Babe Ruth had a career slugging percentage of .690. So, .731 would mean that every single batter Chapman faces is a better slugger than Babe Ruth. And, you believe that is absolutely, perfectly representative of how Chapman is pitching, rather than a small sample anomaly, even though it has been his five walks that have driven in three of his last four runs allowed and the three hits he’s given up in his last two appearances were a single, a bloop double, and a check swing infield single with LeMahieu playing deep? Your credibility is straining on this issue. His last two appearances, he was first rescued by a triple play. Then, there’s the last appearance where he left meatball hanging sliders over the plate that fortunately for him froze consecutive hitters or there may have been more hard hit balls and more runs. So, your argument now is not about actual slugging, but the nature of the outs.I never said it’s not short term, nor did I say it was not an anomaly. I even mentioned that he’s been victimized my some bloops and bleeders. Which, as I’ve said previously, proves my point that the numbers were “a bit misleading.”
I think you’re stuck on this issue that you’ve read too much into what I said. I’m not backing down from it, and neither will you because we’re a pair of hard-headed guys that don’t back down. Again, I’m not interested in what the position is but why it is held; hence, I am more than willing to “back down” but that would mean you offering a reasonable explanation to your point, which you have not provided, other than nearly conceding that it is a small and misleading sample due to one anomalous appearance of four hits, four runs, two home runs, and zero outs.
Yes. He’s been turning some pretty mediocre hitters into Babe Ruth of late. No, he hasn’t, unless you believe those bloops and bleeders you mentioned are indicative of Babe Ruth. The walks certainly are, but that’s not slugging.
It’s shocking because that’s not what you expect of Aroldis Chapman when he takes the mound. Is it correctable? Man, I hope so. Most of his past slumps have been when he’s not getting velocity over 96-97. That’s not the case this time. Even Mo Rivera had bad games and short bad stretches. When he did, he pitched poorly. I just don’t know what I can say that’s going diffuse you at this point. Diffuse me? All I said was that the numbers were “a bit misleading” but you maintained that is false and the slugging percentage you posted is perfectly representative of how Chapman has pitched. Why not simply admit that the sample is skewed by a single outing? I’ve seen you argue that same point with others over the years, but somehow you’re hanging on to this without explanation, other than you don’t want to back down.If I did, I don’t know if I would say it, because to me, those numbers tell a complete story of what I’ve seen from Chapman since June 10. I dread seeing him enter a baseball game right now because he’s not delivering the kind of product we need from him… Which means you have to believe every single batter he’s faced has been better than Babe Ruth since July 10; however, that simply is not the case, other than a single appearance on July 10. QED |
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Post by inger on Jun 25, 2021 22:56:07 GMT -5
While the format switch to colors is acceptable to me, it doesn’t work well on my iPhone. The colors don’t show when I hit quote and the text becomes compressed and difficult to read.
I’m just going to make a basic statement. All I was intending was to show the severity of this slump. I never intended to imply that this was going to be Chapman from now on. The numbers provided are historical. They actually occurred. I take it for granted that the people on this site understand small samples, got and cold streaks and other factors that are part and parcel of baseball.
I hope I’ve found the route to explanation that you need…
If I must, I can get on my desktop computer and my e-Mail will allow me to edit, type in colors and all that jazz. I just don’t particularly enjoy doing that anymore…
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Post by rizzuto on Jun 25, 2021 23:38:37 GMT -5
While the format switch to colors is acceptable to me, it doesn’t work well on my iPhone. The colors don’t show when I hit quote and the text becomes compressed and difficult to read. I’m just going to make a basic statement. All I was intending was to show the severity of this slump. I never intended to imply that this was going to be Chapman from now on. The numbers provided are historical. They actually occurred. I take it for granted that the people on this site understand small samples, got and cold streaks and other factors that are part and parcel of baseball. I hope I’ve found the route to explanation that you need… If I must, I can get on my desktop computer and my e-Mail will allow me to edit, type in colors and all that jazz. I just don’t particularly enjoy doing that anymore… There has been no explanation or even a reasonable argument proffered as to how a .731 SLG percentage is perfectly representative of how Chapman is pitching, other than stated intentions and some oddly defined pride for “not backing down,” which is simply white noise to me. Indeed, small sample sizes and anomalies do occur and are historical, yet their definitions vital to reasoning and drawing accurate conclusions. And, yes, you have taken small sample size for granted, maintaining instead that it is perfectly representative. There was a time when you actually read carefully what was written and intelligently addressed points provided; however, much like the other thread regarding all time teams, this has been more of a trolling session, in which you appear more interested in being validated or right than having a discussion of the information and argument posed. Again, all I stated was that the numbers as posted were “a bit misleading” and explained why. For some reason, you either cannot or will not admit that such a small sample size that includes the single worst outing in a veteran player’s career is even “a bit misleading.” |
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Post by inger on Jun 25, 2021 23:54:17 GMT -5
While the format switch to colors is acceptable to me, it doesn’t work well on my iPhone. The colors don’t show when I hit quote and the text becomes compressed and difficult to read. I’m just going to make a basic statement. All I was intending was to show the severity of this slump. I never intended to imply that this was going to be Chapman from now on. The numbers provided are historical. They actually occurred. I take it for granted that the people on this site understand small samples, got and cold streaks and other factors that are part and parcel of baseball. I hope I’ve found the route to explanation that you need… If I must, I can get on my desktop computer and my e-Mail will allow me to edit, type in colors and all that jazz. I just don’t particularly enjoy doing that anymore… There has been no explanation or even a reasonable argument proffered as to how a .731 SLG percentage is perfectly representative of how Chapman is pitching, other than stated intentions and some oddly defined pride for “not backing down,” which is simply white noise to me. Indeed, small samples sizes and anomalies do occur and are historical, yet their definitions vital to reasoning and drawing accurate conclusions. And, yes, you have taken small sample size for granted, maintaining instead that it is perfectly representative. There was a time when you actually read carefully what was written and intelligently addressed points provided; however, much like the other thread regarding all time teams, this has been more of a trolling session, in which you appear more interested in being validated or right than having a discussion of the information and argument posed. Again, all I stated was that the numbers as posted were “a bit misleading” and explained why. For some reason, you either cannot or will not admit that such a small sample size that includes the worst outing in a veteran player’s career is even “a bit misleading.” Because to me, there is nothing misleading. It happened. It’s simply a statement of fact that over a short period of time, Aroldis Chapman has been boxed and buffeted around, while showing little semblance of his normal effectiveness. There is also no doubt that he’s a much better pitcher than that… |
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Post by rizzuto on Jun 26, 2021 0:00:54 GMT -5
There has been no explanation or even a reasonable argument proffered as to how a .731 SLG percentage is perfectly representative of how Chapman is pitching, other than stated intentions and some oddly defined pride for “not backing down,” which is simply white noise to me. Indeed, small samples sizes and anomalies do occur and are historical, yet their definitions vital to reasoning and drawing accurate conclusions. And, yes, you have taken small sample size for granted, maintaining instead that it is perfectly representative. There was a time when you actually read carefully what was written and intelligently addressed points provided; however, much like the other thread regarding all time teams, this has been more of a trolling session, in which you appear more interested in being validated or right than having a discussion of the information and argument posed. Again, all I stated was that the numbers as posted were “a bit misleading” and explained why. For some reason, you either cannot or will not admit that such a small sample size that includes the worst outing in a veteran player’s career is even “a bit misleading.” Because to me, there is nothing misleading. It happened. It’s simply a statement of fact that over a short period of time, Aroldis Chapman has been boxed and buffeted around, while showing little semblance of his normal effectiveness. There is also no doubt that he’s a much better pitcher than that… A .731 slugging percentage is not misleading? When half of Chapman’s total season’s run total occurred in a single appearance of 4 runs, 4 hits, 2 home runs, and zero outs recorded? When two-thirds of the home runs allowed the entire season occurred in that same appearance? |
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Post by inger on Jun 26, 2021 4:29:58 GMT -5
Because to me, there is nothing misleading. It happened. It’s simply a statement of fact that over a short period of time, Aroldis Chapman has been boxed and buffeted around, while showing little semblance of his normal effectiveness. There is also no doubt that he’s a much better pitcher than that… A .731 slugging percentage is not misleading? When half of Chapman’s total season’s run total occurred in a single appearance of 4 runs, 4 hits, 2 home runs, and zero outs recorded? When two-thirds of the home runs allowed the entire season occurred in that same appearance? In context, no. You are including information that has nothing to do with how Chapman has pitched since June 10th. I am not. There lies the difference…I didn’t create those numbers. They are real. Chapman created them…To me it doesn’t matter how he created them. They are history… |
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Post by rizzuto on Jun 26, 2021 11:49:22 GMT -5
A .731 slugging percentage is not misleading? When half of Chapman’s total season’s run total occurred in a single appearance of 4 runs, 4 hits, 2 home runs, and zero outs recorded? When two-thirds of the home runs allowed the entire season occurred in that same appearance? In context, no. You are including information that has nothing to do with how Chapman has pitched since June 10th. I am not. There lies the difference…I didn’t create those numbers. They are real. Chapman created them…To me it doesn’t matter how he created them. They are history… The context is a small sample size, with a .731 slugging percentage which is misleading since one appearance skewed that measurement to indicate that every single batter is slugging at a rate better than Babe Ruth. And, what information am I including that does not belong? Once again, you make an allegation without even a single example (i.e., trolling). The data I included, which you have consistently ignored, is from July 10th. Address the actual post and its content. Otherwise, what is the point? |
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