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Post by chiyankee on Dec 31, 2023 15:49:33 GMT -5
Your Keller ranking sounds just about perfect, GForks. Of course I can't imagine what the stats of Ted Williams would look like if you compensate for time lost to the military. Or Feller, who would have blown way past 300 wins. Sounds like Keller was a good breeder not just of horses but of ballplayers too. Keller was a real hands-on horse owner. I mean he relaxed by mucking the stables and grooming the horses. He wasn't some remote investor. I had a relative who owned and raised trotters at that same track, Brandywine, and he said Charlie was the most blissful-looking guy he saw in the stables. When he had to throw on the jacket and tie to accept a trophy, it often accessorised shoes covered in straw and horsesh!t. Addie Joss is a good one. How can they use the "years" argument against Munson? Plain and simple, Munson was clutch. He was a born leader too. |
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Post by rizzuto on Dec 31, 2023 18:10:06 GMT -5
Plain and simple, Munson was clutch. He was a born leader too. Derek Jeter was Thurman Munson without the pear-shaped body, bad knees, and catching equipment. Munson was a very good baserunner and like Jeter had a special intuitive sense of the game, whether at the plate, in the field, or on the bases. Both only cared about winning the ball game and championships. Both had quick wits and biting senses of humor when they showed it outside of the clubhouse. My favorite players in descending order were Thurman Munson, Donny Mattingly, and Derek Jeter. When Munson was killed on August 2, 1979, I was so crestfallen that I stopped paying attention to baseball. That is, until I saw some left-handed "outfielder" who was pulled up in September of 1982 make the 1983 starting roster at first base. Initially, I thought the Yankees made a bad decision not conceding first base to Steve "Bye Bye" Balboni and "giving" away the position to some guy named Mattingly. Donny Baseball allowed me to enjoy baseball again without "The Captain" behind the plate. |
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Post by Max on Dec 31, 2023 18:40:06 GMT -5
He was a born leader too. Derek Jeter was Thurman Munson without the pear-shaped body, bad knees, and catching equipment. Munson was a very good baserunner and like Jeter had a special intuitive sense of the game, whether at the plate, in the field, or on the bases. Both only cared about winning the ball game and championships. Both had quick wits and biting senses of humor when they showed it outside of the clubhouse. My favorite players in descending order were Thurman Munson, Donny Mattingly, and Derek Jeter. When Munson was killed on August 2, 1979, I was so crestfallen that I stopped paying attention to baseball. That is, until I saw some left-handed "outfielder" who was pulled up in September of 1982 make the 1983 starting roster at first base. Initially, I thought the Yankees made a bad decision not conceding first base to Steve "Bye Bye" Balboni and "giving" away the position to some guy named Mattingly. Donny Baseball allowed me to enjoy baseball again without "The Captain" behind the plate. Those are my favorite Yankees too. Mattingly, Munson, Jeter. |
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Post by Max on Dec 31, 2023 18:40:39 GMT -5
Plain and simple, Munson was clutch. He was a born leader too. Absolutely. |
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Post by Max on Dec 31, 2023 18:42:08 GMT -5
Plain and simple, Munson was clutch. There are baseball experts galore that swear there is no such thing as “clutch”. They’re wrong of course. Checking Munson’s splits in B-R, I came up with this gem. In “high leverage” situations Munson produce a slash of .304 .367 .397 .764 In 837 games. The slash is accentuated by being accompanied by 116 walks and only 115 Ks. In addition he somehow willed himself to score 299 runs in those situations, a much higher ratio than in medium or low leverage situations. That would be by virtue of his higher than normal walks/OBP and an unseen force that would be the inspiration of his team mates to continue the rally behind him. He hit fewer HR in those spots and drew more walks, just gave a tough at bat and passed the baton… Wow, great research, Inger. Thanks for sharing that. |
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Post by grandforks on Jan 3, 2024 18:31:45 GMT -5
Since Inger gave me his seal of approval that it is not poor form to copy and paste a comment I made to Pinstripe Alley’s questionable Top 100 Yankees series, I’m going to do it again. Hopefully Kaybli won’t smack me for it.
A fairly strong case case could be made that Gordon belongs in the top 15 of this list, but there is absolutely no sound reasoning for him to not be in the top 25. And if someone thinks there is, their justification would be a fascinating read.
Joe Gordon may be the greatest defensive second baseman in Baseball history. Not just Yankees history, but MLB history. As noted previously, defensive win shares is all over the place for first basemen and outfielders, but it does a fairly decent job matching with defensive reputations for catchers and middle infielders. Gordon has an historically elite defensive reputation and his defensive win shares is more impressive than any second baseman in the history of the game.
Joe Gordon is the only second baseman in baseball history to average two defensive win shares per season. His cumulative total is second to Bill Mazeroski, but Gordon played six fewer seasons than Mazeroski and would have needed only one of his missing War years to move past Maz. There are only four players at any position to average more win shares per season than Gordon, and they were all shortstops — Ozzie Smith, Mark Belanger, Joe Tinker, and Art Fletcher.
Gordon led all American League second basemen in defensive win shares in nine of his 11 seasons, finished in the top two of any positional player in eight of his 11 seasons, and in the top four of any positional player every year during his first ten seasons.
Gordon was called Flash due to his acrobatic play and outstanding range, and again has one of the best defensive reputations in baseball history. Defensive win shares adds a resounding show of support for that reputation.
Gordon was also a terrific hitter that played for two teams with parks that certainly didn’t do Gordon any favors. His career batting average was 23 points lower at home than it was on the road. Bobby Doerr, Gordon’s contemporary, hit 54 points higher at home than he did on the road. That is a historically extreme difference, but most players do hit better at home than they do on the road.
Only five second basemen in MLB history posted a better road OPS+ in a single season than Joe Gordon’s 195 — Rogers Hornsby, Eddie Collins, Nap Lajoie, Joe Morgan, and Bobby Grich. Jose Altuve came close with a 194.
Only six second basemen in MLB history had a better ten-best season average than Joe Gordon, so Gordon didn’t have just one fluke year.
Gordon had five seasons with a road OPS+ over 150. The same number of seasons as Joe Morgan and Jackie Robinson, with only four second baseman reaching the mark in more seasons. Robinson Cano reached the mark four times, but he didn’t have his 2011 and 2012 seasons ripped away due to a war — but his four seasons would be reduced to three if he had.
Beginning with Aaron Ward and extending through Robinson Cano, the Yankees have a strong history (better than any other franchise) of outstanding defensive second basemen, but Gil McDougald is the only one that is even realistically in the same discussion as Gordon when it comes to the best of the best.
The Yankees have had some great offensive second basemen, and Gordon has a strong case as the best of them.
He only played seven seasons with the Yankees, but as stated previously he missed two seasons due to WWII, and it is unseemly to not give him credit for those seasons (injuries are one thing, military service is another). That gives him nine with the Yankees. There is no reason to doubt that he would have been the best defensive second baseman in baseball and a very strong offensive contributor over those two seasons.
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Post by rizzuto on Jan 3, 2024 18:44:40 GMT -5
Since Inger gave me his seal of approval that it is not poor form to copy and paste a comment I made to Pinstripe Alley’s questionable Top 100 Yankees series, I’m going to do it again. Hopefully Kaybli won’t smack me for it. A fairly strong case case could be made that Gordon belongs in the top 15 of this list, but there is absolutely no sound reasoning for him to not be in the top 25. And if someone thinks there is, their justification would be a fascinating read. Joe Gordon may be the greatest defensive second baseman in Baseball history. Not just Yankees history, but MLB history. As noted previously, defensive win shares is all over the place for first basemen and outfielders, but it does a fairly decent job matching with defensive reputations for catchers and middle infielders. Gordon has an historically elite defensive reputation and his defensive win shares is more impressive than any second baseman in the history of the game. Joe Gordon is the only second baseman in baseball history to average two defensive win shares per season. His cumulative total is second to Bill Mazeroski, but Gordon played six fewer seasons than Mazeroski and would have needed only one of his missing War years to move past Maz. There are only four players at any position to average more win shares per season than Gordon, and they were all shortstops — Ozzie Smith, Mark Belanger, Joe Tinker, and Art Fletcher. Gordon led all American League second basemen in defensive win shares in nine of his 11 seasons, finished in the top two of any positional player in eight of his 11 seasons, and in the top four of any positional player every year during his first ten seasons. Gordon was called Flash due to his acrobatic play and outstanding range, and again has one of the best defensive reputations in baseball history. Defensive win shares adds a resounding show of support for that reputation. Gordon was also a terrific hitter that played for two teams with parks that certainly didn’t do Gordon any favors. His career batting average was 23 points lower at home than it was on the road. Bobby Doerr, Gordon’s contemporary, hit 54 points higher at home than he did on the road. That is a historically extreme difference, but most players do hit better at home than they do on the road. Only five second basemen in MLB history posted a better road OPS+ in a single season than Joe Gordon’s 195 — Rogers Hornsby, Eddie Collins, Nap Lajoie, Joe Morgan, and Bobby Grich. Jose Altuve came close with a 194. Only six second basemen in MLB history had a better ten-best season average than Joe Gordon, so Gordon didn’t have just one fluke year. Gordon had five seasons with a road OPS+ over 150. The same number of seasons as Joe Morgan and Jackie Robinson, with only four second baseman reaching the mark in more seasons. Robinson Cano reached the mark four times, but he didn’t have his 2011 and 2012 seasons ripped away due to a war — but his four seasons would be reduced to three if he had. Beginning with Aaron Ward and extending through Robinson Cano, the Yankees have a strong history (better than any other franchise) of outstanding defensive second basemen, but Gil McDougald is the only one that is even realistically in the same discussion as Gordon when it comes to the best of the best. The Yankees have had some great offensive second basemen, and Gordon has a strong case as the best of them. He only played seven seasons with the Yankees, but as stated previously he missed two seasons due to WWII, and it is unseemly to not give him credit for those seasons (injuries are one thing, military service is another). That gives him nine with the Yankees. There is no reason to doubt that he would have been the best defensive second baseman in baseball and a very strong offensive contributor over those two seasons. Excellent case for Joe Gordon, GF! The names of those missing years due to World War II are legendary. Cano dropped on my list long ago due to his multiple steroid infractions; sometimes lazy play that was pointed out to him by both Girardi and Torre; his lack of seriousness when it came to winning championships, which even the great Mariano Rivera conceded about him; and not wanting to hit second in the lineup - something Jeter did essentially half of his own career. |
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Post by grandforks on Jan 3, 2024 18:58:02 GMT -5
[quote timestamp="1704324705" source="/post/213420/thread" Excellent case for Joe Gordon, GF! The names of those missing years due to World War II are legendary. Cano dropped on my list long ago due to his multiple steroid infractions; sometimes lazy play that was pointed out to him by both Girardi and Torre; his lack of seriousness when it came to winning championships, which even the great Mariano Rivera conceded about him; and not wanting to hit second in the lineup - something Jeter did essentially half of his own career. [/quote] I’m right there with you, Riz. |
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Post by pippsheadache on Jan 3, 2024 19:26:18 GMT -5
Since Inger gave me his seal of approval that it is not poor form to copy and paste a comment I made to Pinstripe Alley’s questionable Top 100 Yankees series, I’m going to do it again. Hopefully Kaybli won’t smack me for it. A fairly strong case case could be made that Gordon belongs in the top 15 of this list, but there is absolutely no sound reasoning for him to not be in the top 25. And if someone thinks there is, their justification would be a fascinating read. Joe Gordon may be the greatest defensive second baseman in Baseball history. Not just Yankees history, but MLB history. As noted previously, defensive win shares is all over the place for first basemen and outfielders, but it does a fairly decent job matching with defensive reputations for catchers and middle infielders. Gordon has an historically elite defensive reputation and his defensive win shares is more impressive than any second baseman in the history of the game. Joe Gordon is the only second baseman in baseball history to average two defensive win shares per season. His cumulative total is second to Bill Mazeroski, but Gordon played six fewer seasons than Mazeroski and would have needed only one of his missing War years to move past Maz. There are only four players at any position to average more win shares per season than Gordon, and they were all shortstops — Ozzie Smith, Mark Belanger, Joe Tinker, and Art Fletcher. Gordon led all American League second basemen in defensive win shares in nine of his 11 seasons, finished in the top two of any positional player in eight of his 11 seasons, and in the top four of any positional player every year during his first ten seasons. Gordon was called Flash due to his acrobatic play and outstanding range, and again has one of the best defensive reputations in baseball history. Defensive win shares adds a resounding show of support for that reputation. Gordon was also a terrific hitter that played for two teams with parks that certainly didn’t do Gordon any favors. His career batting average was 23 points lower at home than it was on the road. Bobby Doerr, Gordon’s contemporary, hit 54 points higher at home than he did on the road. That is a historically extreme difference, but most players do hit better at home than they do on the road. Only five second basemen in MLB history posted a better road OPS+ in a single season than Joe Gordon’s 195 — Rogers Hornsby, Eddie Collins, Nap Lajoie, Joe Morgan, and Bobby Grich. Jose Altuve came close with a 194. Only six second basemen in MLB history had a better ten-best season average than Joe Gordon, so Gordon didn’t have just one fluke year. Gordon had five seasons with a road OPS+ over 150. The same number of seasons as Joe Morgan and Jackie Robinson, with only four second baseman reaching the mark in more seasons. Robinson Cano reached the mark four times, but he didn’t have his 2011 and 2012 seasons ripped away due to a war — but his four seasons would be reduced to three if he had. Beginning with Aaron Ward and extending through Robinson Cano, the Yankees have a strong history (better than any other franchise) of outstanding defensive second basemen, but Gil McDougald is the only one that is even realistically in the same discussion as Gordon when it comes to the best of the best. The Yankees have had some great offensive second basemen, and Gordon has a strong case as the best of them. He only played seven seasons with the Yankees, but as stated previously he missed two seasons due to WWII, and it is unseemly to not give him credit for those seasons (injuries are one thing, military service is another). That gives him nine with the Yankees. There is no reason to doubt that he would have been the best defensive second baseman in baseball and a very strong offensive contributor over those two seasons. You won't get much argument from me on how great Joe Gordon was, Rizz. It's nip and tuck for me between him and Tony Lazzeri as the greatest Yankee second baseman. There was a time before we knew the whole story that I would have put Robinson Cano in that same box, but obviously that doesn't work now. I do give Lazzeri the edge offensively, both for OBP and power, but not by much, just as I would give Gordon the edge over Poosh Em Up defensively, although Tony was no slouch there either. Ed Barrow, a man very circumspect when it came to giving out praise, had a deep affection for Lazzeri and called him "one of the greatest Yankees of them all." Veteran sportswriter Tom Meany, in his 1948 book "Baseball For Everyone" singled out Gordon, Gehringer and Billy Herman as the best second basemen at making the double play that he had ever seen, noting that they were the only ones who pivoted and threw at the same time they crossed the bag, not after they crossed it. FWIW, in his now over 20-year-old Historical Baseball Abstract, Bill James ranks Gordon, Willie Randolph and Lazzeri almost back to back to back among all-time second basemen -- Gordon at 16, Randolph at 17 and Lazzeri at 19. For that matter, he had Knoblauch at 21. Bobby Richardson was also a great defensive second baseman, as is pretty well-known, but less credited was his predecessor Jerry Coleman, who was outstanding with the glove and who may be the only MLB player to lose more time to the military (WW II and Korea combat pilot) than Ted Williams, nearly five years. So yeah, the Yanks have been blessed with sterling glovemen at second. |
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Post by azbob643 on Jan 3, 2024 19:47:17 GMT -5
Bobby Richardson was also a great defensive second baseman, as is pretty well-known, but less credited was his predecessor Jerry Coleman, who was outstanding with the glove and who may be the only MLB player to lose more time to the military (WW II and Korea combat pilot) than Ted Williams, nearly five years. So yeah, the Yanks have been blessed with sterling glovemen at second. Bobby Richardson was my childhood hero...started at 2B my 1st year playing LL ball before switching to SS from then on. He was, of course, WS MVP the year Yanks lost to Pirates on Maz's HR in '60 WS. Interestingly, he was considered the quintessential leadoff hitter by many, but he didn't walk much and subsequently never had a good OBP. I was so nervous during McCovey's AB in the 9th inning of game 7 in the '62 WS that I turned the TV volume up as loud as it could go and sat out on the stoop to listen, so I didn't see Richardson's catch to end the game. It's been romanticized since then...wasn't really a "great" catch...but still gave the Yanks the WS win. I "met" him many years later at a Old Timers game in Denver. Very gracious...a real gentleman.  |
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Post by azbob643 on Jan 3, 2024 19:54:33 GMT -5
Veteran sportswriter Tom Meany, in his 1948 book "Baseball For Everyone" singled out Gordon, Gehringer and Billy Herman as the best second basemen at making the double play that he had ever seen, noting that they were the only ones who pivoted and threw at the same time they crossed the bag, not after they crossed it. Interesting you bring that up in light of the Gleyber criticism. Many criticize the way Gleyber turns the DP. As someone who's played a lot of 2B/SS, there are a few ways to do that as a 2B. It depends on where the throw is coming from...in most cases it is to pivot and throw...not come across the bag. |
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Post by azbob643 on Jan 3, 2024 20:18:49 GMT -5
Bobby Richardson was also a great defensive second baseman, as is pretty well-known, but less credited was his predecessor Jerry Coleman, who was outstanding with the glove and who may be the only MLB player to lose more time to the military (WW II and Korea combat pilot) than Ted Williams, nearly five years. Coleman is revered in San Diego...  |
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Post by pippsheadache on Jan 3, 2024 20:21:30 GMT -5
Bobby Richardson was also a great defensive second baseman, as is pretty well-known, but less credited was his predecessor Jerry Coleman, who was outstanding with the glove and who may be the only MLB player to lose more time to the military (WW II and Korea combat pilot) than Ted Williams, nearly five years. So yeah, the Yanks have been blessed with sterling glovemen at second. Bobby Richardson was my childhood hero...started at 2B my 1st year playing LL ball before switching to SS from then on. He was, of course, WS MVP the year Yanks lost to Pirates on Maz's HR in '60 WS. Interestingly, he was considered the quintessential leadoff hitter by many, but he didn't walk much and subsequently never had a good OBP. I was so nervous during McCovey's AB in the 9th inning of game 7 in the '62 WS that I turned the TV volume up as loud as it could go and sat out on the stoop to listen, so I didn't see Richardson's catch to end the game. It's been romanticized since then...wasn't really a "great" catch...but still gave the Yanks the WS win. I "met" him many years later at a Old Timers game in Denver. Very gracious...a real gentleman. Bobby Richardson is my all-time favorite "non-great" Yankee. As you say, a complete gentleman and gracious man, much like Mariano Rivera in his own way. We had an old poster around here many years ago who described his playing style as "elegant," and I can't do better than that. I got Bobby to autograph a photo of himself at Yankee Stadium well over 60 years ago. He could not have been nicer or more accommodating. I know a guy whose son played for Bobby at South Carolina and he completely backed up all the good things you ever heard about him. That ninth inning of Game Seven in 1962 was about as tense as I have ever been watching a Yankee game. Yanks up 1-0, bottom of the ninth, Matty Alou leads off with an infield single, the next two guys strike out, then Willie Mays slashes a double to right that Roger Maris got to very quickly and fired the ball in to hold Alou at third. McCovey batting against a tired Ralph Terry -- who had lost the Mazeroski game in the ninth inning just two years earlier -- a righty pitching to a lefty monster like McCovey -- no manager would ever have Terry in there in a spot like that today. When he lined that ball to second, Richardson was playing him perfectly. I know what you mean about mythologizing that play. There was no replay then, and to my eyes McCovey had hit a bullet that Richardson could barely snag, but in reality it was pretty much chest high. I don't know why that game isn't included among the greatest World Series games ever. For drama it was certainly in there with 1960. That was a great Giants team -- Mays, McCovey, Cepeda, Marichal, Gaylord Perry, Harvey Kuenn, Billy Pierce, Jack Sanford, Felipe and Matty Alou, Ed Bailey, Jim Davenport, even future CYA winner Mike McCormick. Amazing that group only won one pennant and no rings. |
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Post by rizzuto on Jan 3, 2024 20:29:36 GMT -5
Since Inger gave me his seal of approval that it is not poor form to copy and paste a comment I made to Pinstripe Alley’s questionable Top 100 Yankees series, I’m going to do it again. Hopefully Kaybli won’t smack me for it. A fairly strong case case could be made that Gordon belongs in the top 15 of this list, but there is absolutely no sound reasoning for him to not be in the top 25. And if someone thinks there is, their justification would be a fascinating read. Joe Gordon may be the greatest defensive second baseman in Baseball history. Not just Yankees history, but MLB history. As noted previously, defensive win shares is all over the place for first basemen and outfielders, but it does a fairly decent job matching with defensive reputations for catchers and middle infielders. Gordon has an historically elite defensive reputation and his defensive win shares is more impressive than any second baseman in the history of the game. Joe Gordon is the only second baseman in baseball history to average two defensive win shares per season. His cumulative total is second to Bill Mazeroski, but Gordon played six fewer seasons than Mazeroski and would have needed only one of his missing War years to move past Maz. There are only four players at any position to average more win shares per season than Gordon, and they were all shortstops — Ozzie Smith, Mark Belanger, Joe Tinker, and Art Fletcher. Gordon led all American League second basemen in defensive win shares in nine of his 11 seasons, finished in the top two of any positional player in eight of his 11 seasons, and in the top four of any positional player every year during his first ten seasons. Gordon was called Flash due to his acrobatic play and outstanding range, and again has one of the best defensive reputations in baseball history. Defensive win shares adds a resounding show of support for that reputation. Gordon was also a terrific hitter that played for two teams with parks that certainly didn’t do Gordon any favors. His career batting average was 23 points lower at home than it was on the road. Bobby Doerr, Gordon’s contemporary, hit 54 points higher at home than he did on the road. That is a historically extreme difference, but most players do hit better at home than they do on the road. Only five second basemen in MLB history posted a better road OPS+ in a single season than Joe Gordon’s 195 — Rogers Hornsby, Eddie Collins, Nap Lajoie, Joe Morgan, and Bobby Grich. Jose Altuve came close with a 194. Only six second basemen in MLB history had a better ten-best season average than Joe Gordon, so Gordon didn’t have just one fluke year. Gordon had five seasons with a road OPS+ over 150. The same number of seasons as Joe Morgan and Jackie Robinson, with only four second baseman reaching the mark in more seasons. Robinson Cano reached the mark four times, but he didn’t have his 2011 and 2012 seasons ripped away due to a war — but his four seasons would be reduced to three if he had. Beginning with Aaron Ward and extending through Robinson Cano, the Yankees have a strong history (better than any other franchise) of outstanding defensive second basemen, but Gil McDougald is the only one that is even realistically in the same discussion as Gordon when it comes to the best of the best. The Yankees have had some great offensive second basemen, and Gordon has a strong case as the best of them. He only played seven seasons with the Yankees, but as stated previously he missed two seasons due to WWII, and it is unseemly to not give him credit for those seasons (injuries are one thing, military service is another). That gives him nine with the Yankees. There is no reason to doubt that he would have been the best defensive second baseman in baseball and a very strong offensive contributor over those two seasons. You won't get much argument from me on how great Joe Gordon was, Rizz. It's nip and tuck for me between him and Tony Lazzeri as the greatest Yankee second baseman. There was a time before we knew the whole story that I would have put Robinson Cano in that same box, but obviously that doesn't work now. I do give Lazzeri the edge offensively, both for OBP and power, but not by much, just as I would give Gordon the edge over Poosh Em Up defensively, although Tony was no slouch there either. Ed Barrow, a man very circumspect when it came to giving out praise, had a deep affection for Lazzeri and called him "one of the greatest Yankees of them all." Veteran sportswriter Tom Meany, in his 1948 book "Baseball For Everyone" singled out Gordon, Gehringer and Billy Herman as the best second basemen at making the double play that he had ever seen, noting that they were the only ones who pivoted and threw at the same time they crossed the bag, not after they crossed it. FWIW, in his now over 20-year-old Historical Baseball Abstract, Bill James ranks Gordon, Willie Randolph and Lazzeri almost back to back to back among all-time second basemen -- Gordon at 16, Randolph at 17 and Lazzeri at 19. For that matter, he had Knoblauch at 21. Bobby Richardson was also a great defensive second baseman, as is pretty well-known, but less credited was his predecessor Jerry Coleman, who was outstanding with the glove and who may be the only MLB player to lose more time to the military (WW II and Korea combat pilot) than Ted Williams, nearly five years. So yeah, the Yanks have been blessed with sterling glovemen at second. Pipps, that was actually Grand Forks treatise on Joe Gordon, not mine. Of course, plagiarism appears less significant today than when I was in school  , but we must provide credit where it is due - and that is to GF! |
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Post by kaybli on Jan 3, 2024 20:40:30 GMT -5
Since Inger gave me his seal of approval that it is not poor form to copy and paste a comment I made to Pinstripe Alley’s questionable Top 100 Yankees series, I’m going to do it again. Hopefully Kaybli won’t smack me for it. A fairly strong case case could be made that Gordon belongs in the top 15 of this list, but there is absolutely no sound reasoning for him to not be in the top 25. And if someone thinks there is, their justification would be a fascinating read. Joe Gordon may be the greatest defensive second baseman in Baseball history. Not just Yankees history, but MLB history. As noted previously, defensive win shares is all over the place for first basemen and outfielders, but it does a fairly decent job matching with defensive reputations for catchers and middle infielders. Gordon has an historically elite defensive reputation and his defensive win shares is more impressive than any second baseman in the history of the game. Joe Gordon is the only second baseman in baseball history to average two defensive win shares per season. His cumulative total is second to Bill Mazeroski, but Gordon played six fewer seasons than Mazeroski and would have needed only one of his missing War years to move past Maz. There are only four players at any position to average more win shares per season than Gordon, and they were all shortstops — Ozzie Smith, Mark Belanger, Joe Tinker, and Art Fletcher. Gordon led all American League second basemen in defensive win shares in nine of his 11 seasons, finished in the top two of any positional player in eight of his 11 seasons, and in the top four of any positional player every year during his first ten seasons. Gordon was called Flash due to his acrobatic play and outstanding range, and again has one of the best defensive reputations in baseball history. Defensive win shares adds a resounding show of support for that reputation. Gordon was also a terrific hitter that played for two teams with parks that certainly didn’t do Gordon any favors. His career batting average was 23 points lower at home than it was on the road. Bobby Doerr, Gordon’s contemporary, hit 54 points higher at home than he did on the road. That is a historically extreme difference, but most players do hit better at home than they do on the road. Only five second basemen in MLB history posted a better road OPS+ in a single season than Joe Gordon’s 195 — Rogers Hornsby, Eddie Collins, Nap Lajoie, Joe Morgan, and Bobby Grich. Jose Altuve came close with a 194. Only six second basemen in MLB history had a better ten-best season average than Joe Gordon, so Gordon didn’t have just one fluke year. Gordon had five seasons with a road OPS+ over 150. The same number of seasons as Joe Morgan and Jackie Robinson, with only four second baseman reaching the mark in more seasons. Robinson Cano reached the mark four times, but he didn’t have his 2011 and 2012 seasons ripped away due to a war — but his four seasons would be reduced to three if he had. Beginning with Aaron Ward and extending through Robinson Cano, the Yankees have a strong history (better than any other franchise) of outstanding defensive second basemen, but Gil McDougald is the only one that is even realistically in the same discussion as Gordon when it comes to the best of the best. The Yankees have had some great offensive second basemen, and Gordon has a strong case as the best of them. He only played seven seasons with the Yankees, but as stated previously he missed two seasons due to WWII, and it is unseemly to not give him credit for those seasons (injuries are one thing, military service is another). That gives him nine with the Yankees. There is no reason to doubt that he would have been the best defensive second baseman in baseball and a very strong offensive contributor over those two seasons.  smack!
Just kidding, grandforks. Not only is it completely acceptable to copy your comment from Pinstripe Alley, I will also copy it into the Top 100 thread.
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, but we must provide credit where it is due - and that is to GF! 
smack!