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Post by chiyankee on Jan 7, 2024 18:10:54 GMT -5
I agree with those who mentioned Allie Reynolds. I'd also submit, if it's possible to be underrated as a Hall-of-Famer, Earle Combs. It's an absolute crime that his number isn't retired (and is instead retired in the name of Billy Martin). Without him setting the table for Murderer's Row, they would have instead committed simple assault. George was on some kind of uniform number retiring kick, because Billy's number being retired is a head scratcher.
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Post by kaybli on Jan 7, 2024 19:06:39 GMT -5
Earle Combs Allie Reynolds Elston Howard Red Ruffing Johnny Mize Clipper That's a quite a list Clipper!
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Post by fwclipper51 on Jan 7, 2024 19:20:38 GMT -5
I agree with those who mentioned Allie Reynolds. I'd also submit, if it's possible to be underrated as a Hall-of-Famer, Earle Combs. It's an absolute crime that his number isn't retired (and is instead retired in the name of Billy Martin). Without him setting the table for Murderer's Row, they would have instead committed simple assault. George was on some kind of uniform number retiring kick, because Billy's number being retired is a head scratcher. These were the years that George was fighting with the Hall of Fame over Yankee players not being elected. He had pull the team out the Hall of Fame game played at Cooperstown. He would create Monument Park at Yankee Stadium II. The 1st Yankees Uniform number that was retired was Lou Gehrig's No 4. After Babe Ruth had left the team in 1935, they would continue to issue it to players, right up to the middle of 1948 AL season, when Cliff Mapes was the last active Yankees player was to wear No. 3. Also Mapes was wearing No. 7 in 1951, Mickey Mantle had been issued No. 6 in spring training camp, when Mapes was traded in 1951, Mantle would get his No. 7.
Clipper
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Post by nw on Jan 8, 2024 12:32:32 GMT -5
George was on some kind of uniform number retiring kick, because Billy's number being retired is a head scratcher. These were the years that George was fighting with the Hall of Fame over Yankee players not being elected. He had pull the team out the Hall of Fame game played at Cooperstown. He would create Monument Park at Yankee Stadium II. The 1st Yankees Uniform number that was retired was Lou Gehrig's No 4. After Babe Ruth had left the team in 1935, they would continue to issue it to players, right up to the middle of 1948 AL season, when Cliff Mapes was the last active Yankees player was to wear No. 3. Also Mapes was wearing No. 7 in 1951, Mickey Mantle had been issued No. 6 in spring training camp, when Mapes was traded in 1951, Mantle would get his No. 7.
ClipperThey were also the years that the Yankees weren't drawing fans (2nd place finishes didn't mean playoffs back then). Putting a 55,000 gate into a season where you're lucky to draw 20,000 was a big deal back then.
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Post by inger on Jan 8, 2024 14:30:07 GMT -5
Earle Combs Allie Reynolds Elston Howard Red Ruffing Johnny Mize Clipper That's a quite a list Clipper! No Babe, no Gehrig, no Mantle. Quite interesting…
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Post by bomberhojoe on Jan 8, 2024 14:51:42 GMT -5
I agree with those who mentioned Allie Reynolds. I'd also submit, if it's possible to be underrated as a Hall-of-Famer, Earle Combs. It's an absolute crime that his number isn't retired (and is instead retired in the name of Billy Martin). Without him setting the table for Murderer's Row, they would have instead committed simple assault. George was on some kind of uniform number retiring kick, because Billy's number being retired is a head scratcher. Yankees have watered down the retirement of numbers. Considering how many all time greats who have played for the team, it should have been for only those very top echelon players. Numbers 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, and 42 are the locks IMO.
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Post by chiyankee on Jan 8, 2024 15:06:08 GMT -5
George was on some kind of uniform number retiring kick, because Billy's number being retired is a head scratcher. Yankees have watered down the retirement of numbers. Considering how many all time greats who have played for the team, it should have been for only those very top echelon players. Numbers 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, and 42 are the locks IMO. I agree with all those plus #2 & #16. I wouldn't have any manger numbers retired nor Reggie or O'Neill. The rest of the guys, like Maris, Howard, Gator, Bernie, Jorge and Pettitte are up for debate.
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Post by bomberhojoe on Jan 8, 2024 15:51:16 GMT -5
Yankees have watered down the retirement of numbers. Considering how many all time greats who have played for the team, it should have been for only those very top echelon players. Numbers 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, and 42 are the locks IMO. I agree with all those plus #2 & #16. I wouldn't have any manger numbers retired nor Reggie or O'Neill. The rest of the guys, like Maris, Howard, Gator, Bernie, Jorge and Pettitte are up for debate. I don't rank 2 and 16 on quite the same level as the others, but as Hall of Fame players I suppose they're worthy of consideration.
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Post by fwclipper51 on Jan 8, 2024 16:54:31 GMT -5
On July 13,1960, MLB would played a 2nd All-Star Game at Yankee Stadium that only drew a crowd of 38,362 fans. On October 1,1961, the Yankees would played their last 1961 AL season home game against the Boston Red Sox. Only a crowd of 23,000 plus fans showed up to see the game that Roger Maris would hit #61 HR. I was fortune enough to be there. The 1961 World Series was going to start on Tuesday, October 3rd against the Reds, so we are able to walk on the field. My Dad and sat in the left field bleacher seats. Yogi Berra was playing LF, when the younger fans called out to him, he just turned around with a big smile and waved back to us. I did see Red Sox Starter Big Bill Moboqutte warm up in the visitors bullpen.
Clipper
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Post by kaybli on Jan 8, 2024 17:08:18 GMT -5
On July 13,1960, MLB would played a 2nd All-Star Game at Yankee Stadium that only drew a crowd of 38,362 fans. On October 1,1961, the Yankees would played their last 1961 AL season home game against the Boston Red Sox. Only a crowd of 23,000 plus fans showed up to see the game that Roger Maris would hit #61 HR. I was fortune enough to be there. The 1961 World Series was going to start on Tuesday, October 3rd against the Reds, so we are able to walk on the field. My Dad and sat in the left field bleacher seats. Yogi Berra was playing LF, when the younger fans called out to him, he just turned around with a big smile and waved back to us. I did see Red Sox Starter Big Bill Moboqutte warm up in the visitors bullpen.
Clipper Awesome memories clipper!
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Post by inger on Jan 8, 2024 17:25:04 GMT -5
Thank you to all the new members who have added to our vote count and chimed in with their additional opinions. When I get a chance in the next couple days I intend to go back through the thread and edit to add your write in votes. Should be interesting. And of course not forgetting our regulars either and will be collecting any write ins from all of you as well.
Polls should be more interesting now with the additional subscribers! They won’t all wind up 3-2… 😂
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Post by fwclipper51 on Jan 8, 2024 17:28:22 GMT -5
On July 13,1960, MLB would played a 2nd All-Star Game at Yankee Stadium that only drew a crowd of 38,362 fans. On October 1,1961, the Yankees would played their last 1961 AL season home game against the Boston Red Sox. Only a crowd of 23,000 plus fans showed up to see the game that Roger Maris would hit #61 HR. I was fortune enough to be there. The 1961 World Series was going to start on Tuesday, October 3rd against the Reds, so we are able to walk on the field. My Dad and sat in the left field bleacher seats. Yogi Berra was playing LF, when the younger fans called out to him, he just turned around with a big smile and waved back to us. I did see Red Sox Starter Big Bill Moboqutte warm up in the visitors bullpen.
Clipper Awesome memories clipper! I remember watching the 1960 MLB All-Star Game on TV, I was so surprised that Yankee Stadium wasn't sold out. The team would not get another MLB All-Star game until after the Stadium remodeling in 1976. I was only able to get to the original Yankee Stadium twice in 1961 and in 1962 against the A's. Both times my favorite Yankees player was hurt, Mickey Mantle.
Clipper
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Post by inger on Jan 11, 2024 10:45:09 GMT -5
Inger — This is a great topic. Congratulations for creating this thread. It really seems like a lot of Yankees are underrated, even The Big Four to a certain degree, probably due to them being dismissed as Yankees. You seemed to do a great job of hitting most of the better candidates, and I see some posters wisely added a few others. Willie Randolph was one of my three favorite players as a kid, and I used to argue with people about his value to the team all of the time. But I have to admit, the tables have swung in his favor, and he may be reaching the point where he is a tad overrated. But better that than the other way around. Three HOFers that I’ll throw in are Whitey Ford, Joe Gordon, and Bill Dickey. I realize they are in the HOF, so they have been recognized as all-time greats, but it is their standing with the all-time greats that seems to be underrated. I could of course be wrong, but I will happily argue to the bitter end that Whitey Ford is one of the ten greatest pitchers of all time when all factors and variables have been considered. Bernie Williams became one of my favorite players during my early adulthood, and I love to present his HOF case to anyone that will listen. Right or wrong. When Willie Randolph was a Yankee, he had a reputation as a man who "never killed a rally." While certainly not a virtual truism, it was tough when all I saw as a twelve year old in south Louisiana were about ten televised games per year and two-day old box scores in the Lafayette Daily Advertiser. Nevertheless, it was evident to me that Randolph did all the little things you wanted in a middle infielder of the 1970s and early 1980s. Sure-handed, disciplined, focused, cagey, fast, and fundamentally sound, the only thing Willow did not have in his game was power. As a kid, it was preached to me that Yogi Berra was the greatest Yankee catcher of all time and only challenged in MLB history by Roy Campanella and Johnny Bench. But, when I looked at the numbers, it always surprised me that no one mentioned Billy Dickey, born in Bastrop, Louisiana. Dickey's numbers are right up there with the greatest catchers of all time offensively. In fact, B-R.com has Dickey with a career OPS+ of 127, Bench - 126, and Campanella and Berra at 125. Of course, defensively, Berra always credited Dickey as having taught him how to catch. Bill Dickey is indeed a Hall of Famer but he is also underrated. As I have aged and the Yankees' last dynasty years have fallen into memory, Bernie Williams' value has shone in my eyes in a way that it did not while the mild-mannered, soft-spoken Puerta Rican was actually patrolling centerfield and batting clean-up for New York. To think that the Yankees nearly allowed Williams to sign as a free agent with the Red Sox! Williams played in an era of steroid users and growth hormone abusers, when so many average players' slugging and power numbers were artificially inflated. Bernie's career line of .297/.381/.477/.858 would be a boon for the Yankees' current roster, yet his .477 slugging seems modest to the sometimes upper deck shots he hit with that quick, beautiful, sharp click off his bat. Bernie's lifetime OPS+ is 125. From the right side of the plate, Bernie's was stellar: .308/.397/.503/.900. Here is a pleasant factoid: Bernie Williams' OPS at home vs. away: exactly the same at .858. Though I was often critical of the routes Bernie sometimes took, his meager arm strength, and the occasional late jump, there is a reason Paul O'Neill could shade closer to the right field line: Bernie would out-run any mistakes and clean-up whatever the other two outfielders couldn't reach. Watching Bernie go from first to home in Anaheim from the vantage of being seated behind home plate was like watching a thoroughbred rounding the last turn at Belmont. Dirt flying. Knees high. Long, graceful strides. Bernie was thrilling to watch up close. I can still hear the lilting voice of Howard Cosell saying: “Will-y Ran-DOLPH, NEV-er SPIKES a RAL-lee”… (How’s my Cosell imitation?)…
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Post by inger on Jan 11, 2024 10:56:59 GMT -5
I promised to get the total wrote in votes for this thread. It was more difficult than I thought. I took the liberty of counting the vote along with a vote from commenters that agreed with the original voter.
Here they are:
Jonny Mize-1 Red Ruffing-1 Earle Combs-1 Thurman Munson- 4 Bob Meusel -1 Spud Chandler-2 Moose Skowron-1 Graig Nettles- 2 Allie Reynolds- 4 Fritz Peterson -1 Mel Stottlemyre-1 Tommy Henrich-2 Brett Gardner- 1 Willie Randolph- 2 Whitey Ford-1 Joe Gordon -3 Bill Dickey- 1 Gil McDougald - 2
To be honest I could have added one more vote for each of these guys because I agreed with every one of them, too.
Thanks to all who have voted. I see there is an option to lock the voting, but I’m not going to. There are still more members signing up, let them have a shot at it, too. It looks as though Bernie Williams and Jorge Posada run neck and neck as the primary choices.
For many years almost everyone said Roy White, but it looks like he now gets his due…
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Post by inger on Jan 11, 2024 11:01:16 GMT -5
All told 34 players got at least one vote, including all 14 of the suggestions I provided on the original list. What a fun thread this has been! Total votes as of this moment are a whopping 81…
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