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Post by kaybli on Dec 22, 2023 13:36:08 GMT -5
Maybe the Yanks felt they were just being used to jack up the price.
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Post by chiyankee on Dec 22, 2023 13:37:29 GMT -5
Maybe the Yanks felt they were just being used to jack up the price.
I think both NY teams were used. Yamamoto was always going to the Dodgers, just like Ohtani.
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Post by 1955nyyfan on Dec 22, 2023 13:46:00 GMT -5
I saw on Bleacher Report that some writer was speculating Jesus Luzardo would be a good fit for the Yankees and the Marlins might make him available. He's young and has 3 years of control. He would be expensive but the Marlins need prospects.
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Post by inger on Dec 22, 2023 13:52:50 GMT -5
I saw on Bleacher Report that some writer was speculating Jesus Luzardo would be a good fit for the Yankees and the Marlins might make him available. He's young and has 3 years of control. He would be expensive but the Marlins need prospects. A 25-year old lefty with a lot of swing and miss that appears to have turned the corner would slot in quite nicely. Not a long track record of success, but any track record beats Yammy and his zero track record. I’d like him, but I’d still like to add a proven veteran starter as well…
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Post by ypaterson on Dec 22, 2023 14:21:29 GMT -5
Thanks to everyone at this board for offering a home to us displaced YES posters. The invite was very gracious. Yamamoto might end up winning a CY but I am not sure that even if he does that contract is justified. At some point every team has to recognize its financial limits. It did not take superfan Steve Cohen to see that. The Yankees gave too much talent for one year of Soto. They are now at the mercy of the market and Scott Boras. Another mega deal would have made the situation even worse. And next year there are decisions on both Torres and Verdugo. I do regret the Yankees not moving on other guys who would have helped...Rodriguez and Lugo.... while they were busy chasing Yamamoto. Astute observations! Welcome to our group of crazies… I figured if I was going to meet people on a new board I should buy me a new stute for the occasion ! Thanks for the greeting.
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Post by ypaterson on Dec 22, 2023 14:33:52 GMT -5
I saw on Bleacher Report that some writer was speculating Jesus Luzardo would be a good fit for the Yankees and the Marlins might make him available. He's young and has 3 years of control. He would be expensive but the Marlins need prospects. That rumor made the rounds on the internet. Luzardo might be a great fit but he is not coming cheap. There were stories on the internet that linked him to KC, Boston, the Twins and just about everybody in MLB. He'd be a good add, but I think the Yankees have more dollars than they do high end talent in their system. Unless Blake and company think that he has high end, #2 stuff that they can harness, I'd rather try to buy another starter.
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Post by rizzuto on Dec 22, 2023 14:36:12 GMT -5
Like I posted to you previously, Kay, I just hoped the Yankees wouldn't lose him over a couple millions dollars per year over ten years. Hal and Cashman are just too predictable. Well, it's a done deal, so let's move on. I'm sure Cashman is on the telephone right now to the agent for Frankie Montas. What is interesting is Yankees AAV was higher. I don't think money was the reason the Yankees lost him. You may be correct that the Dodgers were always the preferred destination for Yamamoto; however, there was a time when the Yankees would never be outbid for a player they targeted, if for nothing else than to keep those valued players away from rivals and to send a message to other future free agents that no other franchise would do more to secure a championship. Just a few years ago, when the Yankees desperately needed pitching, they lost out on veteran starter Dallas Keuchel for approximately $750,000, when our second best pitcher was AJ Happ. If you recall, the Yankees also offered a higher AAV for Robinson Cano, but he took the extra dollars and years, too. In my opinion, Cano wanted out of the Bronx, but I am definitely in the minority with that view. For me, had the Yankees met or exceeded the same offer from the Dodgers, then there would be no doubt that Yamamoto wanted to be with Ohtani and on the West Coast. But, whenever the Yankees come in second or third on bidding, it remains speculation.
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Post by 1955nyyfan on Dec 22, 2023 15:07:09 GMT -5
I saw on Bleacher Report that some writer was speculating Jesus Luzardo would be a good fit for the Yankees and the Marlins might make him available. He's young and has 3 years of control. He would be expensive but the Marlins need prospects. That rumor made the rounds on the internet. Luzardo might be a great fit but he is not coming cheap. There were stories on the internet that linked him to KC, Boston, the Twins and just about everybody in MLB. He'd be a good add, but I think the Yankees have more dollars than they do high end talent in their system. Unless Blake and company think that he has high end, #2 stuff that they can harness, I'd rather try to buy another starter. I agree the cost would be high but also believe we have the young talent to get him. The proposed package I saw included Jones and Arias, who are two really good prospects. I think if you had to you could also add Pereira or maybe Peralta. Cash seems reluctant to give up the very top prospects although he grudgingly did move Thorpe. I guess it would depend how much they like Luzardo. After the splash with Soto and because of the question marks with Rodon and Cortez I think we all agree he needs to do somthing. I don't think resigning Montas gets it done. Any top of the rotation guy we acquire at this point will be costly, either in terms of prospects or $$$. Unlike Soto, at least with Luzardo you know you have him for at least 3 years which should be at or near prime years. .
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Post by bruner4329 on Dec 22, 2023 15:25:38 GMT -5
Like I posted to you previously, Kay, I just hoped the Yankees wouldn't lose him over a couple millions dollars per year over ten years. Hal and Cashman are just too predictable. Well, it's a done deal, so let's move on. I'm sure Cashman is on the telephone right now to the agent for Frankie Montas. What is interesting is Yankees AAV was higher. I don't think money was the reason the Yankees lost him. I thought the same thing. As a career Finance person I know $300 million over 10 years is worth more than $325 million over 12 years. If the next move they make is signing Montas then we are in trouble. You can sign him as a 6th/7th rotation guy but not as part of your initial 5 man rotation.
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Post by Max on Dec 22, 2023 15:49:17 GMT -5
What is interesting is Yankees AAV was higher. I don't think money was the reason the Yankees lost him. I thought the same thing. As a career Finance person I know $300 million over 10 years is worth more than $325 million over 12 years. If the next move they make is signing Montas then we are in trouble. You can sign him as a 6th/7th rotation guy but not as part of your initial 5 man rotation. Hi Bruner.
I think the Yankees are going to trade or sign a top of the rotation starter [Burnes? Cease?]. In my opinion they need a big 3 to compete in the postseason. Cole, Rodon, and whomever they sign or trade for. That's assuming that Rodon pitches like he did for the Giants.
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Post by pippsheadache on Dec 22, 2023 16:30:43 GMT -5
Thanks to everyone at this board for offering a home to us displaced YES posters. The invite was very gracious. Yamamoto might end up winning a CY but I am not sure that even if he does that contract is justified. At some point every team has to recognize its financial limits. It did not take superfan Steve Cohen to see that. The Yankees gave too much talent for one year of Soto. They are now at the mercy of the market and Scott Boras. Another mega deal would have made the situation even worse. And next year there are decisions on both Torres and Verdugo. I do regret the Yankees not moving on other guys who would have helped...Rodriguez and Lugo.... while they were busy chasing Yamamoto. Yep. The Royals signed the two mid-rotation guys I wanted (assuming they got Yamamoto) in Seth Lugo and Michael Wacha. Rodriguez would have been a good fit too. The Yanks can't just roll over here. I didn't think Monty would want to come back to The Bronx given the horrific level of support he got, plus being consistently yanked at the 4 2/3 innings point. I'd love to have him. Even though he's been slowly declining over the past few years, Burnes might still be a good pickup if the Yanks are going all-in for 2024, as they jolly well better be.
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Post by chiyankee on Dec 22, 2023 16:40:18 GMT -5
I thought the same thing. As a career Finance person I know $300 million over 10 years is worth more than $325 million over 12 years. If the next move they make is signing Montas then we are in trouble. You can sign him as a 6th/7th rotation guy but not as part of your initial 5 man rotation. Hi Bruner.
I think the Yankees are going to trade or sign a top of the rotation starter [Burnes? Cease?]. In my opinion they need a big 3 to compete in the postseason. Cole, Rodon, and whomever they sign or trade for. That's assuming that Rodon pitches like he did for the Giants.
One thing is certain, Cashman cannot just stand pact with the rotation in its current state. They need one major addition and a signing, like Montas as a depth piece.
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Post by pippsheadache on Dec 22, 2023 17:02:50 GMT -5
I would like Yamamato ... but size is concern And there is no way in hell the Yankees should give him a Gerrit Cole like contract I'm not too worried about his size. There have been small elite pitchers in MLB history like Pedro and Whitey Ford.
Have you seen his sling shot delivery? Its pretty cool:
Kaybli, I wasn't too focused on his 5'10" stature previously, but as far as I have been able to determine, Whitey Ford is by far the best starting pitcher of the live ball era who is 5'10" or smaller. Even in the deadball era of the early 20th century there weren't many 5'10" or shorter -- there was Three-Finger Brown at that height. The only prominent pitcher shorter than that I could find (not counting guys who mostly pitched in the 19th century) was early Highlanders spitballer Jack Chesbro, who was 5'9". In fact most of the successful shorties of that era were spitballers like Eddie Cicotte of Black Sox infamy or the other 5'10" guy who was a successful live ball starter, Burleigh Grimes. He is probably the second best pitcher at that height from the live ball era. Take it up an inch to 5'11" and you do have Pedro Martinez and Ron Guidry and Fernando Valenzuela and Ted Lyons and Tim Lincecum from the liveball era. But still the pickings are slim. The only other modern-era guy I could find who was an outstanding pitcher at 5'10" was reliever Billy Wagner. There are some really short guys who had nice careers like Bobby Shantz or Roy Face or Freddie Norman, but I think the Dodgers are looking for more than that for their $325 million. I hadn't realized how unusual Ford was in being such an outlier at that height. Yamamoto may turn out to be the best thing from Japan since the Bento Box, and you have to think based on his accomplishments he has to be good in MLB, but he is definitely swimming against the tide of history.
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Post by kaybli on Dec 22, 2023 17:25:18 GMT -5
I'm not too worried about his size. There have been small elite pitchers in MLB history like Pedro and Whitey Ford.
Have you seen his sling shot delivery? Its pretty cool:
Kaybli, I wasn't too focused on his 5'10" stature previously, but as far as I have been able to determine, Whitey Ford is by far the best starting pitcher of the live ball era who is 5'10" or smaller. Even in the deadball era of the early 20th century there weren't many 5'10" or shorter -- there was Three-Finger Brown at that height. The only prominent pitcher shorter than that I could find (not counting guys who mostly pitched in the 19th century) was early Highlanders spitballer Jack Chesbro, who was 5'9". In fact most of the successful shorties of that era were spitballers like Eddie Cicotte of Black Sox infamy or the other 5'10" guy who was a successful live ball starter, Burleigh Grimes. He is probably the second best pitcher at that height from the live ball era. Take it up an inch to 5'11" and you do have Pedro Martinez and Ron Guidry and Fernando Valenzuela and Ted Lyons and Tim Lincecum from the liveball era. But still the pickings are slim. The only other modern-era guy I could find who was an outstanding pitcher at 5'10" was reliever Billy Wagner. There are some really short guys who had nice careers like Bobby Shantz or Roy Face or Freddie Norman, but I think the Dodgers are looking for more than that for their $325 million. I hadn't realized how unusual Ford was in being such an outlier at that height. Yamamoto may turn out to be the best thing from Japan since the Bento Box, and you have to think based on his accomplishments he has to be good in MLB, but he is definitely swimming against the tide of history. Great research pipps! I thought Pedro was 5’10” but he’s actually listed at 5’11”. I needed some hopium after missing out on Yamamoto and your post definitely helped! Let’s hope he turns into Igawa!
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Post by pippsheadache on Dec 22, 2023 17:41:30 GMT -5
Kaybli, I wasn't too focused on his 5'10" stature previously, but as far as I have been able to determine, Whitey Ford is by far the best starting pitcher of the live ball era who is 5'10" or smaller. Even in the deadball era of the early 20th century there weren't many 5'10" or shorter -- there was Three-Finger Brown at that height. The only prominent pitcher shorter than that I could find (not counting guys who mostly pitched in the 19th century) was early Highlanders spitballer Jack Chesbro, who was 5'9". In fact most of the successful shorties of that era were spitballers like Eddie Cicotte of Black Sox infamy or the other 5'10" guy who was a successful live ball starter, Burleigh Grimes. He is probably the second best pitcher at that height from the live ball era. Take it up an inch to 5'11" and you do have Pedro Martinez and Ron Guidry and Fernando Valenzuela and Ted Lyons and Tim Lincecum from the liveball era. But still the pickings are slim. The only other modern-era guy I could find who was an outstanding pitcher at 5'10" was reliever Billy Wagner. There are some really short guys who had nice careers like Bobby Shantz or Roy Face or Freddie Norman, but I think the Dodgers are looking for more than that for their $325 million. I hadn't realized how unusual Ford was in being such an outlier at that height. Yamamoto may turn out to be the best thing from Japan since the Bento Box, and you have to think based on his accomplishments he has to be good in MLB, but he is definitely swimming against the tide of history. Great research pipps! I thought Pedro was 5’10” but he’s actually listed at 5’11”. I needed some hopium after missing out on Yamamoto and your post definitely helped! Let’s hope he turns into Igawa! Yamamoto got no reason to live. On the off-chance anybody doesn't know, that's from the song "Short People." It's not a threat from me. Can't be too careful these days.
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